Bombardier to announce substantial job losses

[WestCoast]

From the BBC Article

Bombardier job losses expected to be announced

Train-maker Bombardier, which recently missed out on the £1.4bn Thameslink contract, is expected to announce job losses later at its Derby plant.

Last month, the company lost out to German group Siemens as the preferred bidder to build 1,200 carriages for the route between Bedford and Brighton.

Unions described the news as a "hammer blow" for UK manufacturing.

Bombardier, which employs 3,000 people in Derby, subsequently announced a full review of its UK operations.

Securing the Thameslink contract was regarded as crucial for Derby's Litchurch Lane plant - the UK's last rolling stock manufacturer - as most of its current orders will soon be completed.

A spokesman for the Department for Transport said any job losses were "highly regrettable".

"Both [Thameslink] bids were considered very carefully and the evaluation concluded that the Siemens bid represented the best value for money," he said.

"However, going forward, we recognise that there is a need to examine the wider issue of whether the UK is making best use of the application of the EU procurement rules."

But while Bombardier is expected to lay off staff, Siemens has said that it will create 2,000 jobs across the UK, including up to 300 at a factory in Hebburn, South Tyneside, as a result of effectively winning the Thameslink contract.

Siemens already employs about 16,000 people in the UK.
Union pressure

Speaking on Friday, the leader of Derby City Council, Philip Hickson, said he expected the "full scale of the disaster" to be revealed this week.

Shadow business secretary John Denham and shadow transport secretary Maria Eagle have written to Prime Minister David Cameron urging him to review the decision.

After losing out on the contract, Bombardier said it was working with unions and would keep employees informed, while the union Unite has pledged to put pressure on the firm and the government to keep the factory open.

Mark Young, co-ordinating officer of Unite, said: "The country that invented the railways is at risk of losing its ability to manufacture trains unless the government urgently rethinks its decision to award preferred bidder status to Siemens instead of Bombardier.

"The government can reverse this decision and get UK train manufacturing back on track.

"It is simply unsustainable for the government to claim to support UK manufacturing with one hand and then with the other hand take decisions which potentially wipe out an entire manufacturing sector."

Speculations about up to 1,500 jobs, but this is by no means comfirmed as yet.

 

[Ferret]

Speculations about up to 1,500 jobs, but this is by no means comfirmed as yet.

You can bet that any local suppliers to the Derby factory will also be affected so the 1500 jobs lost at the factory itself will not be the full story. This really is a sad affair.

 

[asylumxl]

They talk like there's no future work to be won. Sounds like fear mongering to me, in a bid to get their way.

 

[WestCoast]

They talk like there's no future work to be won. Sounds like fear mongering to me, in a bid to get their way.

It's certainly getting a lot of news coverage this morning.

 

[Ferret]

They talk like there's no future work to be won. Sounds like fear mongering to me, in a bid to get their way.

Well, what new train orders are due? Once the LM 172s are done, I'm struggling to think of anything! I guess the 14# pacer units need replacing at some point, but I've not seen any rumours or talk of that being in hand....

 

[HST Power]

Listened to the story on the radio. I support the present Government, but the failure to reward a contract to a British manufacturer when they claim to be supporting British companies, and are urging the industry to take on English employees rather than foreigners, is dissapointing. BMW and Nissan have invested into the country. Unemployment levels have dropped. The loss of 1,500 jobs would be a setback, big time.

 

[Ferret]

Listened to the story on the radio. I support the present Government, but the failure to reward a contract to a British manufacturer when they claim to be supporting British companies, and are urging the industry to take on English employees rather than foreigners, is dissapointing. BMW and Nissan have invested into the country. Unemployment levels have dropped. The loss of 1,500 jobs would be a setback, big time.

Yes, it will be portrayed as an own goal - maybe even in the right-wing press let alone the left-wing papers which will naturally be having a field day.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The decision was being discussed at 0725 this morning on BBC1 with a certain Mr. Hammond clearly laying the blame on the decision having to fall in with EU procurement law.

 

[tbtc]

So they should automatically have won the contract (despite having a poorer bid)?

 

[gordonthemoron]

it seems to me that banking your future on a single order is asking for trouble.

Plus Siemens build trains in Krefeld for export, why don't Bombardier do the same in Derby?

 

[Barn]

Listened to the story on the radio. I support the present Government, but the failure to reward a contract to a British manufacturer when they claim to be supporting British companies, and are urging the industry to take on English employees rather than foreigners, is dissapointing.

It is simply impossible under procurement law to renege on the criteria set at the outset of the procurement (i.e. by Labour) without opening the Government up to the risk of being sued or restarting the procurement altogether. Both of these would be extremely expensive, and the latter option would set the Thameslink Programme back by some years.

 

[sonorguy]

That and the fact that the Siemens offering is a better product all round, being lighter and more energy efficient.

 

[gordonthemoron]

so Bob Crowe's view is: 'it may be crap, but it's British (i.e. Canadian) crap'?

 

[Barn]

That and the fact that the Siemens offering is a better product all round, being lighter and more energy efficient.

Yes. Protectionism rarely benefits anyone in the long term, and especially not the taxpayers and farepayers who buy the goods.

 

[185]

Siemens have zero train building plants in the UK, that's the sole reason why they should not be supported, however it's interesting how Bombardier failed to mention their own shortcomings - building the entire Manchester Metrolink tram order in Austria, and adding insult to injury they have Austrian Engineering staff staying long term in Manchester.


"British trains / British jobs!" .....didn't really happen there.

 

[YorkshireBear]

i presonally think the best bit is that if they did win thameslink they would still have to get rid of 1200...
So its not like getting thameslink would do a great deal...

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, that bit was hidden in the middle of the BBC story. So with up to 2,000 jobs created by Siemens there is a significant net gain.

But, Siemens is German. Fine for luxury cars but otherwise you must always think back to the war...

Someone also remind Unite that Bombardier isn't British?!

Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc via Tapatalk.

 

[blacknight]

So they should automatically have won the contract (despite having a poorer bid)?

Yes
Have to understand banks & Burger King alone cannot grow the economy UK we have to become manufacturing base economy again.
You have to look at bigger picture such 1200 persons employed in Derby & paying taxs, which is good for both the UK & local economy.
Whereas now we have another 1200 going to be claiming job seekers allowance & 1200 will not spending in local economy.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes
Have to understand banks & Burger King alone cannot grow the economy UK we have to become manufacturing base economy again.
You have to look at bigger picture such 1200 persons employed in Derby & paying taxs, which is good for both the UK & local economy.
Whereas now we have another 1200 going to be claiming job seekers allowance & 1200 will not spending in local economy.

Dont forget macdonalds.....

Its okay relying on banks but they messed it up last time so....
Thy obviously dont want to be manufacturers or they wouldnt of cancelled loan to sheffield forgemasters to make nuclear power plants. Which they would of made money on with interest so i didnt get that either...

Agree completely

 

[radamfi]

Do Siemens build most of their trains here in the EU? If so, the Thameslink contract could be argued as intra-EU protectionism and shutting out the rest of the world.

 

[blacknight]

Yeah, that bit was hidden in the middle of the BBC story. So with up to 2,000 jobs created by Siemens there is a significant net gain.

But, Siemens is German. Fine for luxury cars but otherwise you must always think back to the war...

Someone also remind Unite that Bombardier isn't British?!

Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc via Tapatalk.

Thats great if you want to be kit building industry flat pack trains & cars, but thats not doing anything for UK research & design or other UK engineering companies that supply component parts. Like all overseas owned plants jobs losses tend to be in UK not homeland

 

[Barn]

Yes
Have to understand banks & Burger King alone cannot grow the economy UK we have to become manufacturing base economy again.
You have to look at bigger picture such 1200 persons employed in Derby & paying taxs, which is good for both the UK & local economy.
Whereas now we have another 1200 going to be claiming job seekers allowance & 1200 will not spending in local economy.

Too bad what you're suggesting is illegal.

 

[jon0844]

Also, why is the BBC saying "Bombardier cuts 1,400 Derby jobs" when Bombardier has said it is planning to, presumably to try and force someone to step in and give them more work or a subsidy or something.

It all sounds like a game, yet Siemens will be employing more people and presumably many of those 1,400 (1,200 who were going anyway) could get a job with Siemens given their skills?

I doubt all of them automatically go on to claim benefits for the rest of their lives, given many were already on temporary contracts anyway. Contractors know the score, and enjoy good money when they've got a contract to compensate for when they don't.

What if Bombardier and Siemens had in fact both been British? What would the fuss be over then?

 

[strange6]

This would have provided a great opportunity to build a centre of excellence in terms of high speed train fabrication and build. Instead, we're going to lose a big chunk of a highly skilled employment base of which the UK is running very, very low on. It's a very sad state of affairs and the sooner we're out of this crazy and corrupt dictatorship called the EU, the better as far as I'm concerned. It'll end up ruining us all

 

[blacknight]

Too bad what you're suggesting is illegal.

Only seems to be illegal in this country as quoted on radio that 100% of French orders went to French companies & likewise 90% of German orders have gone to German companies

 

[jon0844]

But, what if they were both UK firms and Bombardier had still lost and laid off half its workforce?

The only way we can protect jobs is to only allow one company to exist to make trains so there can't ever be any competition and disappointment.

The EU has many flaws, but it's too easy to blame it all on this. If the Siemens bid was better, questions should be asked as to why/how Bombardier failed to put in a more competitive bid. I wonder if those people will keep their jobs?

 

[blacknight]

It all sounds like a game, yet Siemens will be employing more people and presumably many of those 1,400 (1,200 who were going anyway) could get a job with Siemens given their skills?

What if Bombardier and Siemens had in fact both been British? What would the fuss be over then?

Thats the difference between turning a lathe & turning a spanner it as already been stated coaches will be built in Germany so it begs the question will 2000 workers in UK be just be assembly line workers. How can that be best value for British economy & tax payer paying job seekers allowances to skilled work force.

 

[radamfi]

There is only publicity when a large manufacturing company cuts jobs. My company has cut its workforce from about 14,000 to 8,000 in the last couple of years but has had no publicity, because it is a white collar company. Companies are hiring and firing all the time.

 

[allticketspls]

Interesting take on it in The Guardian. Article quotes in bold.

"In a recent letter to the transport secretary, Philip Hammond, Bombardier warned that 1,200 jobs could be at risk at Derby even if it won the Thameslink contract. However, it had hoped that winning a deal for more than 1,000 carriages on the rail route would allow the company to retain many of the jobs."

This shows that job losses at Derby were already planned before the Thameslink announcement.

” Bob Crow, RMT general secretary, said: “This act of political sabotage to a key element of the remaining UK manufacturing base could leave the nation that gave the world the railways building nothing but a few basic components.”

Yes Mr Crow, political sabotage by your friends at the Labour Party when they decided the procurement policy.

Quote from Ferret earlier in the thread: Well, what new train orders are due? Once the LM 172s are done, I'm struggling to think of anything! I guess the 14# pacer units need replacing at some point, but I've not seen any rumours or talk of that being in hand....

Don't forget that there are contracts upcoming for HS2, Crossrail and the other London Underground stock replacements.

This issue is a very hot potato at the moment and I believe that we will only get the true facts and information when the dust has settled.

 

[blacknight]

There is only publicity when a large manufacturing company cuts jobs. My company has cut its workforce from about 14,000 to 8,000 in the last couple of years but has had no publicity, because it is a white collar company. Companies are hiring and firing all the time.

This not hiring & firing its about factory gates shutting see British Steel & British car manufacturing once factories are closed its lost for ever & the land then being redeveloped.
MP's need wake up call they want us to work for long so where are these jobs to be found & this years school leavers where will they find these so called modern apprenticeships MP's bang on about.