Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[JasonGillblox]

Thanks, it would be nice is 944 had a shot through the west for a bit before it goes but unless they have a shortage I can't see this. Possibly when the rest of the ex Skylinks move to East Coast Buses they could send some through to Lothian Country to replace the 57 plate buses.

57s are being replaced by 441-465.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Rumour is 843 and 844 are/have re-entered service to cover for 587 and 1045. This would suggest they could be off for several months yet.

846-848 are all based at Longstone for route training at the moment. Only 841-842, 845 and 849 are in the withdrawn line at Marine now, alongside 944.

How longs 587 been off the road for never new it was off

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

How longs 587 been off the road for never new it was off

Forgotten why. Got it mixed up with 589 earlier which actually came back out in service very quickly - must have been like 670.

587 hasn’t been out since 27th February.

 

[ScotRail158725]

587 hasn’t been out since 27th February.

RTC? speaking of which 675 appears to have left for ferrymill today?

 

[Resuwen]

587 is at Ferrymill

 

[computerSaysNo]

Has the tracking system crashed in a different way than usual today?
Usually when the apps don't show the live tracking we can still see the individual vehicles tracking on the likes of Bustimes just without a route linked to them, but none of the vehicles seem to be visible at all on the Bustimes map just now.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Has the tracking system crashed in a different way than usual today?
Usually when the apps don't show the live tracking we can still see the individual vehicles tracking on the likes of Bustimes just without a route linked to them, but none of the vehicles seem to be visible at all on the Bustimes map just now.

The API (which is where the feed comes from) is completely down and thus anything that uses it to work, won’t.

 

[CN04NRJ]

1120 operated the first (technically night bus/shift) 100 from the garage, swapped over for 1134 after one trip once that returned to the depot.

1137 was also immediately out on the third night shift after fuelling. I really think two Skylinks should be made available as spare buses if a traffic bus is used when there should be 5 Airlink XLBs in the garage (barring inspection/MOT).

 

[stevenedin]

193 is on the X7 and 107 today

 

[VioletEclipse]

193 is on the X7 and 107 today

That didn't take long at all for an E200MMC to end up on the X7.

 

[stevenedin]

That didn't take long at all for an E200MMC to end up on the X7.

I can imagine an interesting ride

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

193 is on the X7 and 107 today

It did a 107 to reposition it back to Dunbar after being at Marine for some time, but it has not done any X7. It’s on the 120.

 

[ecb124]

It did a 107 to reposition it back to Dunbar after being at Marine for some time, but it has not done any X7. It’s on the 120.

Yeah, it's tracking alongside 60 on the X7 at the moment but sitting at terminus for 120, driver may not have logged out of the system so it thinks 193 is carrying on the duty.
That being said, I can see one of the mmcs ending up on an X7 at some point in the not so distant future.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

driver may not have logged out of the system so it thinks 193 is carrying on the duty.

That’s not how Lothian’s tracking system works. What we see is all set up by control manually.

 

[ecb124]

That’s not how Lothian’s tracking system works. What we see is all set up by control manually.

Strange, why was it tracking on both bustimes, and the app as an X7 then?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Strange, why was it tracking on both bustimes, and the app as an X7 then?

Because control assigned it to that running board starting with the 107.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Strange, why was it tracking on both bustimes, and the app as an X7 then?

The current Lothian tracking system, at least from my observation (I am happy to be corrected), continues to be the legacy system which was used for the old AVLs. My assumption is that it is not directly compatible with the new AVLs, so although it receives location data (from both AVL and radio), it doesn't receive anything else.

The solution to this, which was actually initially introduced to allow 291-294 and the 600s to track when they had no AVLs, is for a system to manually insert the remaining information itself. It relies on control to manually set each running board to the correct bus, using a spreadsheet I believe. The system then uses the location of the bus and the trip the bus should be on to get the next stop data. This comes with many issues like control setting the wrong bus, a bus being set late, no bus being set at all, etc. It is also unable to take into account delays meaning it reguarly changes to the next trip too early which can lead to bus information disappearing. This is also why the data is not 100% consistent with the bus stop screens which does receive information from the AVLs.

Edinburgh Council was supposed to update their bus tracker API to use the new system by the end of April, but that hasn't happened yet.

 

[ecb124]

The current Lothian tracking system, at least from my observation (I am happy to be corrected), continues to be the legacy system which was used for the old AVLs. My assumption is that it is not directly compatible with the new AVLs, so although it receives location data (from both AVL and radio), it doesn't receive anything else.

The solution to this, which was actually initially introduced to allow 291-294 and the 600s to track when they had no AVLs, is for a system to manually insert the remaining information itself. It relies on control to manually set each running board to the correct bus, using a spreadsheet I believe. The system then uses the location of the bus and the trip the bus should be on to get the next stop data. This comes with many issues like control setting the wrong bus, a bus being set late, no bus being set at all, etc. It is also unable to take into account delays meaning it reguarly changes to the next trip too early which can lead to bus information disappearing. This is also why the data is not 100% consistent with the bus stop screens which does receive information from the AVLs.

Edinburgh Council was supposed to update their bus tracker API to use the new system by the end of April, but that hasn't happened yet.

Thanks for the insight, I had little clue that's how it was operating currently (I expected a more elegent solution lol) and that certainly explains a lot of tracking enomolies that crop up semi-regularly

 

[CN04NRJ]

The current Lothian tracking system, at least from my observation (I am happy to be corrected), continues to be the legacy system which was used for the old AVLs. My assumption is that it is not directly compatible with the new AVLs, so although it receives location data (from both AVL and radio), it doesn't receive anything else.

The solution to this, which was actually initially introduced to allow 291-294 and the 600s to track when they had no AVLs, is for a system to manually insert the remaining information itself. It relies on control to manually set each running board to the correct bus, using a spreadsheet I believe. The system then uses the location of the bus and the trip the bus should be on to get the next stop data. This comes with many issues like control setting the wrong bus, a bus being set late, no bus being set at all, etc. It is also unable to take into account delays meaning it reguarly changes to the next trip too early which can lead to bus information disappearing. This is also why the data is not 100% consistent with the bus stop screens which does receive information from the AVLs.

Edinburgh Council was supposed to update their bus tracker API to use the new system by the end of April, but that hasn't happened yet.

Pretty much, it's also why when a bus gets changed it almost always doesn't track properly or at all.

 

[Numpt33]

It's a reasonable enough question. If there's an existing school route that doesn't carry a full busload, why not use the additional capacity to carry ordinary passengers?

Some services are/do. Most regular passengers don't want to get on a bus full of gremlins who are prone to abusing them with all sorts of accusations of impropriety for an adult getting on a "school" service. I got a "closed" bus(coach) to school when I were a lad, I can't say that any adult would want to board that particular bus.

There is a bus in East Lothian which does exactly what you're suggesting -125 if memory serves.

If I were an operator of that service, I wouldn't list the name of the High School on the destination board, but rather the street it's on, as this implies it isn't just for school demons.

 

[ScotRail158725]

None of the Skylinks are out today, is that them done? On another note it only seems to be 601-615 that get allocated to the 17 and 18 is there a reason why?

 

[Bus9120UK]

None of the Skylinks are out today, is that them done? On another note it only seems to be 601-615 that get allocated to the 17 and 18 is there a reason why?

601-615 are the ones to gain small luggage racks for the routes. 601 is already at Seafield receiving them.
The Skylinks will probably reappear again tomorrow, but the numbers may go down as 933 and 935 have been moved to Longstone.

 

[stevenedin]

601-615 are the ones to gain small luggage racks for the routes. 601 is already at Seafield receiving them.
The Skylinks will probably reappear again tomorrow, but the numbers may go down as 933 and 935 have been moved to Longstone.

Interesting. Are 933 and 935 to cover them going off to get the luggage racks fitted or to cover the delay in the BZLs entering service? Things seem to have come to a standstill with the transfers recently.

I can see 929-931 and 934 returning to Lothian as well. They have other spare green deckers to Replace them at Marine with 841-842, 845, 849 & 944 being spare. Plus if the training school no longer need 846-848 then those are also spare.

 

[CN04NRJ]

1116 on the 100 this afternoon, 1071 is also still at Longstone after a (minor) thermal incident on Friday night (passed it on the way home with two fire trucks attending).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2025 ==

1116 on the 100 this afternoon, 1071 is also still at Longstone after a (minor) thermal incident on Friday night (passed it on the way home with two fire trucks attending.

 

[ScotRail158725]

601-615 are the ones to gain small luggage racks for the routes. 601 is already at Seafield receiving them.
The Skylinks will probably reappear again tomorrow, but the numbers may go down as 933 and 935 have been moved to Longstone.

Where about are they gaining luggage racks?

 

[Vectron383]

503 is on a 100 this evening in full Skylink colours.

 

[CN04NRJ]

503 is on a 100 this evening in full Skylink colours.

Yep, it was nice to drive something different! Apparently it *may* be staying a day or two but I doubt it. It replaced 1140, 1116 was taken off and replaced by a bus due to return to garage eventually.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Where about are they gaining luggage racks?

Believe it’s over the front wheel. The front seat should be retained.

 

[NorthEastern]

Yep, it was nice to drive something different! Apparently it *may* be staying a day or two but I doubt it. It replaced 1140, 1116 was taken off and replaced by a bus due to return to garage eventually.

View attachment 179425

Great pic!

 

[EMU303]

Aside from the online Lothian “stylised” London Underground type like map, is there an up to date “traditional” bus map which shows all the routes and roads in a single view, rather than the route by route selection on the Lothian site?