Delay Repay advice - involves HS1

[WesternLancer]

Hi all

I'm helping a relative with a Depay - Repay claim but would welcome advice before they submit a claim.

Journey:
Oxford to Bexhill

Ticket:
Off Peak Return
Valid 'any permitted route'
restriction code FO
16-25 Railcard applied

Ticket bought at station ticket office before start of journey

Travel
Used an itinerary generated by GWR website for times, copy / screen grab retained, but didn't buy ticket against an itinerary.
I am not aware of price given by that itinerary (and as above ticket was not bought on line against that itinerary)

Relative would usually travel Oxford to Paddington, then London Victoria to Bexhill using Southern, or Charing Cross to Bexhill via Tonbridge & Hastings

However, on the date concerned, I believe due to engineering work affecting the Victoria - Bexhill service, the GWR website had generated an itinerary using HS1:

Oxford - Paddington
Tube Paddington to St Pancras
St Pancras - to Ashford with Southeastern on an HS1 service
Ashford to Bexhill with Southern

It was this itinerary chosen to use (there may have been others, eg I do not know if all travel from London to Bexhill would have been advised as being via HS1)

Delay
I understand the St Pancras - Ashford service was delayed somewhat and the connection at Ashford could not be held, so the arrival in Bexhill was one hour late

Questions
a) Was this ticket valid to use on HS1?
it's not clear to me if the ticket held was valid for travel on HS1 or not (the ticket does not say if it was or was not), no separate HS1 supplement ticket was bought (assuming these still exist) because my relative assumed the itinerary meant the ticket was valid as a result of the engineering work that presumably gave rise to generating the itinerary to start with. They may also of been unaware that such HS1 supplement tickets even exist, as I am sure they would have bought one if they thought they needed one to go on that route.

I note BR Fares does not give tickets for this option that are separately stated as valid via HS1 or Not valid via HS1.

b) If the ticket was valid on HS1 then I assume it is OK to claim Delay - Repay

c) If the ticket was not valid to use on HS1 would it be unwise to claim Delay-Repay on the basis that travel was being undertaken without a valid ticket, which could potentially give rise to a sanction as a result

No ticket inspection was carried out on board I think, so the ticket wasn't questioned by staff while on an HS1 train.

Thanks in advance for views on this.

 

[signed]

I will let more knowledgable members complement, but if you have an itinerary with your ticket, your ticket is valid even if the ticket is facially invalid.

 

[AlterEgo]

The ticket is valid for use on HS1. It’s an any permitted ticket and that is a permitted route.

 

[jfollows]

London to Bexhill is valid via Hastings (passes the fares check) and one of the permitted routes for London to Hastings is HS1. Similarly Oxford to Bexhill is valid via Hastings.

Maps HS + CW.

 

[yorkie]

Oxford to Bexhill is valid via Ebbsfleet; it's within 3 miles of the shortest route.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I note BR Fares does not give tickets for this option that are separately stated as valid via HS1 or Not valid via HS1.

I believe tickets from the GWR hinterland are generally valid via HS1 when that is a permitted route. The absence of specific not HS1/HS1 fares says that the normal rules apply.

 

[WesternLancer]

I will let more knowledgable members complement, but if you have an itinerary with your ticket, your ticket is valid even if the ticket is facially invalid.

Yes, but issue was they did not get the itinerary with the ticket - they bough a ticket and looked up train times as separate processes

 

[Watershed]

Generally, fares tend only to be marked as specifically valid on HS1 (or not) where they are priced by Southeastern. Most fares priced by other TOCs, such as Oxford to Bexhill, are just routed "Any Permitted" or "✠Via London". Their validity on HS1 (or not) is determined using the Routeing Guide, as with any other journey or route.

I can't think of many examples where engineering works have given rise to an easement allowing travel on HS1. In this case it's probably just that it's usually quickest to travel with Southern via Gatwick, but if that route is shut HS1 becomes quicker.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks to all for the various replies - much appreciated. Looks as if the ticket was valid and thus the delay - repay claim is acceptable to submit without cause for concern.

The advice given in various posts is much appreciated as it will be helpful in future as it affords different route choices for travel that does get undertaken from time to time in my family.

Probably a good job I wasn't asked for advice before boarding as I'd have suggested paying for an HS1 supplement which would not have been necessary

 

[jfollows]

Yes, but issue was they did not get the itinerary with the ticket - they bough a ticket and looked up train times as separate processes

It sometimes makes it easier with a formal itinerary, but it’s not required, if the route used is valid with the ticket (it is) and minimum station interchange times are catered for with the planned itinerary.

 

[WesternLancer]

It sometimes makes it easier with a formal itinerary, but it’s not required, if the route used is valid with the ticket (it is) and minimum station interchange times are catered for with the planned itinerary.

Yes, understood. What I meant was if the itinerary had shown the price paid at the ticket office (the price wasn't screen grabbed) I would have been confident the ticket was OK I think.
It wasn't easy to recreate the itinerary because I think it was generated as a result or the engineering work that day. Trying to recreate it earlier today didn't result in that route as an option, tho I assume with care it wold have been possible to see if it could be replicated.

But easier to ask experts here who of course have provided me with much useful additional info.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2025 ==


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Update on this. Claim was submitted and payment decision agreed within 24 hours.

Many thanks to all for the helpful info posted.