Overnight break of journey.

[RyanOPlasty]

Having read the thread Forced to buy a new ticket after break of journey, I have read the break of journey conditions on the National Rail website

Regading overnight break of journey it says :
Overnight break of journey - if the journey cannot be completed on the same day, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day.

I have always thought "cannot" meant that the break of the journey was only permitted if no trains were running to complete the journey before the end of the day.

Is it permissible to break the journey overnight for any reason, or for a contrived reason such as "I missed the last train"

 

[Bletchleyite]

This specifically refers to the outward portion of Off Peak Singles/Returns and Super Off Peak Singles/Returns, for clarity. Day tickets (e.g. Off Peak Day Single) cannot be used after 0429 the following day unless specific easements are in place due to disruption, and Anytime tickets are valid unconditionally for more than one day (I *think* the outward of an Anytime Return is valid 5 days and an Anytime Single 2 days, but could be wrong). The return half of Off Peak/Super Off Peak/Anytime can be used for a calendar month including as many breaks as you wish provided they are all on one Permitted Route.

It isn't well defined so some feel you can make up any excuse. I'm personally a bit less than convinced; to me it's clearly intended for stuff like rural routes where an overnight stop may be necessary - for instance you cannot get from Penzance to Wick without at least one overnight stop or using both Sleepers. However you can probably use it to your advantage by getting an itinerary where you do run out of trains (though I don't think anyone would say you had to overnight somewhere with no hotels if there was an option where there were some further back).

In short, as with many things, don't take the mick (and ensure your ticket doesn't bar break of journey in the restrictions, which I *think* overrides this) and you'll be fine.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is it permissible to break the journey overnight for any reason

Yes, on any ticket which has validity for more than one railway day.

This could be an Anytime Return (outward portion valid for 5 days) or any Anytime or Off Peak Return on the return portion (one calendar month).

 

[pedr]

Slightly at a tangent but relevant to the original thread: has anyone asked a guard who scribbles or writes a date on a ticket with validity beyond that day to write something more precise on it? It does seem to be potentially confusing for staff who see a ticket in the future and who might have questions about it, if the marking is entirely non-specific.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of the many, many advantages of e-tickets is that people can't just scribble garbage on them.

 

[pedr]

Yes, though I would find it very helpful to be able to access anything annotated to an e-ticket record, and where/when it was scanned. At the moment you can't verify that the data is correct, if staff have made some kind of mistake. It can't be impossible for a device to have the time set incorrectly, or to be accidentally associated with the wrong train or station, nor for staff to press the wrong button and record something misleading.

 

[Haywain]

if staff have made some kind of mistake.

What kind of mistake do you think can be made?

 

[Benjwri]

Yes, though I would find it very helpful to be able to access anything annotated to an e-ticket record, and where/when it was scanned. At the moment you can't verify that the data is correct, if staff have made some kind of mistake. It can't be impossible for a device to have the time set incorrectly, or to be accidentally associated with the wrong train or station, nor for staff to press the wrong button and record something misleading.

Yes I’ve come across a situation where a guard on the Basingstoke shuttle had their device set up as Reading gateline, and there just happened to be a revenue block which was not having any explanation until enough people arrived it became clear not everyone had decided to fare evade with the same method at once.

 

[bakerstreet]

What kind of mistake do you think can be made?

I was once on a train to Reading, my e-ticket checked.

My ticket was then checked again later in the journey and the device beeped in a way that the staff member looked at the screen.

They asked, this ticket was checked at Reading, have you already used this?

I hadn’t, and once this was explained and proven by the purchase time, they were satisfied.

I inquired further, they advised that if the previous checker had not reset their device, then it could suggest that it was checked at a specific station, even though this would be incorrect.

 

[Hadders]

Admitedly this is a very old post about overnight break of journey but the forum member who posted it was authoratitive at the time and I don't believe the position has changed.

Revised NRCoC

Have you ever actually tried either of these options? From my experience ticket office staff don't know the answers to any but the most obvious questions. The last time I mentioned the routing guide at one it was clear that the staff member I was talking to had never heard of it. In my area it...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[yorkie]

What kind of mistake do you think can be made?

I'm not sure if it would be considered a "mistake" as such; however in line with the concerns expressed by other member, I have known staff scan my ticket in gateline mode. This may result in some staff members erroneously thinking the ticket has been used at that location, which is the situation described by @bakerstreet.

Whether it would be considered a "mistake" to set up a mobile reader as if it was at a physical location (whether the ticket may not even be valid) and/or whether it would be considered a "mistake" to interpret such data as suggesting the customer used the ticket at that location is immaterial, as the end result is the same.

However, overall, e-tickets vastly reduce the likelihood of any such issues when compared to paper tickets; I have known staff inappropriately deface paper tickets I have held on various occasions, so in my opinion, it is 'safer' to use e-tickets than paper tickets in this regard.