Help! - Email from WMR Stating that I had misused my Railcard

[Mehd]

Update Over a Month Later: I made the decision on the 15th of March to ignore the email, their "options" and commented no further on my ticket usage. Since then, I have used Trainpal for all transactions, seperated the 2 accounts - one for myself with my 16-25 railcard and a second for my nephew with his 16-17 railcard, and have had no issues since. No correspondence (emails, letters or contact alike) from WMR, and no payout made.

In case anyone else encounters a similar occurrence, unless the train company catches you "in the act" or intimidates you enough to make a confession, the best option is to ignore it and not use trainline for ticket purchases.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for updating us. I'd say it's still likely that you will get further contact at some point from WMT.

 

[Mehd]

Low and behold, I have now received a response from WMR, can someone advise me on how to reply to this email and what the options are? Are they empty threats and do I have to pay up? Do they have enough evidence seeming that they never even stopped me in person and I didn't admit to anything? Do I still have to pay for fares longer than 6 months? How can I respond to stop this from coming up again?

 

[AlterEgo]

You can just ignore it. Imagine a world where it went to your spam.

 

[Mehd]

Will they send it to their prosecutions team and will I end up going to court over unfounded claims, along with their threat of "fraud by false representation"? They can't prove who used the tickets, and all they've got is their "data" to work off.

 

[185]

You can just ignore it. Imagine a world where it went to your spam.

He did ignore it - he followed your advice, and as a result, it looks worse to me. It could be an empty threat, but who knows.

 

[Mehd]

it looks worse to me. It could be an empty threat, but who knows.

What do you suggest? What would the options be going forward?

 

[Egg Centric]

What do you suggest? What would the options be going forward?

Just ignore it. And subsequent emails. Set a rule to forward them to spam if you're going to panic every time they come in as more probably will.

In the event they open an actual case can deal with it then. But since you've

Whoops hadn't noticed you'd responded previously. A bit more complicated then.

Personally I'd still ignore it and aggressively fight any criminal prosecution but you may have to roll over if there were a civil claim. We'll see...

 

[AlterEgo]

He did ignore it - he followed your advice, and as a result, it looks worse to me. It could be an empty threat, but who knows.

They are all empty threats. There is no evidence to support any prosecution. That is why they are sending the emails in the first place, to get the naive to talk.

If there was any evidence they'd have just got on with it by now, and they don't appear to have anything to a criminal standard despite the OP's unwise attempts at engaging. But the OP has never been stopped, so there is no proof to a criminal standard to support a prosecution. This is why RPIs roam the network, by the way - to *catch people travelling* - the fundamental part of the offence.

Every instance where people have ignored these emails results in nothing happening. There must be dozens of these cases on the forum.

Will they send it to their prosecutions team and will I end up going to court over unfounded claims, along with their threat of "fraud by false representation"? They can't prove who used the tickets, and all they've got is their "data" to work off.

They're talking out of their fundament to scare you. It's been with the "prosecutions" team since the start, because you've been talking to their fraud investigator.

Just set a rule to spam the emails if you're fed up reading them. Maybe they'll send another one threatening the Plagues of Egypt or something.

They send loads of these emails to people and I reckon less than half of them get read for various reasons. Nothing bad happens.

 

[Mehd]

aggressively fight any criminal prosecution but you may have to roll over if there were a civil claim. We'll see...

This is the exact circumstance I am intending to avoid, I haven't got the time for criminal/civil battles with a train organisation over railcard usage of tickets i've bought for other people, and trying to pick out which ones are mine, and/or whether of this warrants any criminal/civil proceeding. They labeled the emails subject "Final Warning / Escalation of the case." Is this their attempt to threaten further or give a "chance" to avoid proceedings?

This is why RPIs roam the network, by the way - to *catch people travelling* - the fundamental part of the offence.

I can confirm further, I have not encountered any RPI, or gate staff ever reporting me for "incorrect railcard usage" or "fraud".

They send loads of these emails to people and I reckon less than half of them get read for various reasons. Nothing bad happens.

Seeming as though I initially replied, do I still have to engage months later to avoid prosecution? What is the realistic next steps from here if they don't hear from me on the 2nd of May?

 

[AlterEgo]

This is the exact circumstance I am intending to avoid, I haven't got the time for criminal/civil battles with a train organisation over railcard usage of tickets i've bought for other people, and trying to pick out which ones are mine, and/or whether of this warrants any criminal/civil proceeding. They labeled the emails subject "Final Warning / Escalation of the case." Is this their attempt to threaten further or give a "chance" to avoid proceedings?

It's a threat. I mean, I could send you letters with FINAL WARNING on it, wouldn't mean anything.

I can confirm further, I have not encountered any RPI, or gate staff ever reporting me for "incorrect railcard usage" or "fraud".


Seeming as though I initially replied, do I still have to engage months later to avoid prosecution? What is the realistic next steps from here if they don't hear from me on the 2nd of May?

You don't *have* to. As they have sent another email which does not advance the case it seems almost certain they still feel they do not have the evidence to support a prosecution.

It's up to you whether you cave in and just pay them some money, but they don't deserve it.

 

[Pushpit]

Seeming as though I initially replied, do I still have to engage months later to avoid prosecution? What is the realistic next steps from here if they don't hear from me on the 2nd of May?

Hopefully you can re-read the advice given by multiple people back in March - I don't think anything has changed other than the stroppy recent email, which was entirely predictable (see Option B upthread). To directly answer your questions.
- No, there is no requirement to engage. And as it happens there isn't a lot of benefit to you for doing so.
- Next steps: see previous March posts, but the worst case scenario is a civil recovery.
It is very important that you do not get caught fare dodging for the time being, since that would give the rail company other mechanisms.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

They're talking out of their fundament to scare you. It's been with the "prosecutions" team since the start, because you've been talking to their fraud investigator.

Just to clarify on this point.

There are 2 very distinctly different teams in play at WMR here.

Your original interactions were with the Digital Fraud Team. These are part of the same team as the RPSMs.

Any cases that are not finalised with or the team decide to progress to court are sent to the Prosecution Team (not the same staff or even location in the country). These are the folks who prepare cases and attend them at the court.

My only input towards this particular case would be to ensure that you do keep on top of which Railcard is used for which user - if you do ignore this and then subsequently get caught with a ticket with the wrong Railcard it would cast an ominous shadow over your previous history.

 

[Mehd]

My only input towards this particular case would be to ensure that you do keep on top of which Railcard is used for which user - if you do ignore this and then subsequently get caught with a ticket with the wrong Railcard it would cast an ominous shadow over your previous history.

Thank you for your clarification. In this particular case, does the "Prosecution Team" have sufficient "evidence" to "prepare a case" for court? I'm continuing with ignoring the emails as suggested/advised by other members in this forum.

 

[jumble]

He did ignore it - he followed your advice, and as a result, it looks worse to me. It could be an empty threat, but who knows.

How can whoever sent that emails possibly know that the OP WILL incur further costs if they ignore the emails as they have no evidence and I guess no knowledge whatever of what action the other team mentioned by @SCDR_WMR will actually take.

 

[Titfield]

Thank you for your clarification. In this particular case, does the "Prosecution Team" have sufficient "evidence" to "prepare a case" for court? I'm continuing with ignoring the emails as suggested/advised by other members in this forum.

They are "shooting a line" to panic you. They can provide whatever they wish to the prosecution team but mere suspicion is not enough to get a prosecution and indeed any prosecution team will check for evidence that would satisfy a court. If they can not provide such evidence then the prosecution team would decline to take it to court knowing that it would not satisfy the court and likely to lead to their prosecutor being rebuked by the Magistrate. You have not been stopped and your ticket checked. These are the fundamentals in establishing wrong doing.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Thank you for your clarification. In this particular case, does the "Prosecution Team" have sufficient "evidence" to "prepare a case" for court? I'm continuing with ignoring the emails as suggested/advised by other members in this forum.

I am not in a position to comment on this, given I work for the company, but I would wholeheartedly agree on a personal level with the above comments from @Titfield