MetroTyler
Member
Their words are that the issue is "affecting the dispatch process with the doors" which makes me rather surprised it isn't the dispatch cameras shutting off anymore. Software with the doors?
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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler
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pazanate
Member
As expected, Tyne & Wear ChronicleLive has ran the story and the online comments under the article are a hard read. Pains me to see this happening
DanNCL
Established Member
Having found out what the issue is, I can understand why Nexus have been deliberately vague in their press release. I don’t think it would be appropriate to expand on what the issue is whilst an investigation is underway.
The Chronic is a cesspit Reach Media outpost. The comments are riddled with Bots and Reform voters spouting opinion as fact.
Exactly this and to have Kim McGuinness kicking off straight away isn't helping.
"This is a massive blow to Newcastle commuters and i demand answers"
Pet, theres 5 diagrams running and they've only been in public operation since December. Of course things are going to crop up which is being investigated, part and parcel of the upgrade. This is the....second(?) big-ish issue thats come to light with the units? Compare that to the Metrocars since January.
[Edit before the pedantic twazzocks get their self righteous knickers in a twist, i am WELL aware i'm comparing a 40 year old machine to a brand new one.]
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ModernRailways
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Apr 2011
- Messages
- 2,180
It would seem Stadler are keen to point out that it wasn’t specifically a train problem but a series of specific things occurred.
DanNCL
Established Member
There’s local elections in a week, her intervention is probably to try and convince undecided voters that she’s doing something about a situation that she has precisely zero control over. If this had happened two weeks later I doubt we’d be hearing the same complaints from her.
Indeed.
pazanate
Member
Yeah, I've noticed that. Awful tabloids will be awful tabloids. It's like FB comments all over again, I still see people say that the new trains will get delayed and cancelled in the autumn and winter just like the Metrocars despite the fact that all of the Class 555s are sander equipped.
pazanate
Member
Absolutely. I'm sure Nexus also have contingency plans if something like that does happen, whatever that may be.
It seems from a photo on reddit the doors have managed to open on the wrongside.
Straight onto the tracks…
Straight onto the tracks…
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FusionZenFlame
Member
I did my counting wrong. I forgot to include the recent tw units being scrapped in my last count. But adding to that point you have said here, since there is 71 left.
That would mean that there would be 15 spares as of now in case some metrocars failing. But with the inactive units (4001,4010,4040,4045) as of now. That would put it at only 11 spare which is dangerously low.
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There's the possible reason for the temporary withdrawal of the 555s, Stadler claiming driver error and the train behaved as it should but maybe there is more to it than that if it lead to a mass withdrawal of the units?
As ever the truth probably lies in between.
One can only hope this is the only time this has happened and the withdrawal of the units is not because more than one unit has suffered with this issue.
Were the trains fitted with anything to stop wrong-side opening?
I've no idea and I believe the doors shouldn't open without the aid of pushing the button albeit I think drivers can push a button to release and open all the doors at once at busy times?
Either way, Nexus are being coy about it whilst Stadler is quick to point out it's not a train fault but driver error. Still questions why would it lead to a total withdrawal for more than one day if that was the case.
DanNCL
Established Member
Stadler are now publicly disputing Nexus’ version of events.
www.bbc.co.uk
New Metro trains taken out of service over 'door fault'
Metro bosses are investigating a possible door fault, but the manufacturer says there is no problem.
www.bbc.co.uk
pazanate
Member
This should be fun to watch. /s
Are Nexus saying it’s the trains fault? They say “an operational issue” not a technical issue.Stadler are now publicly disputing Nexus’ version of events.
New Metro trains taken out of service over 'door fault'
Metro bosses are investigating a possible door fault, but the manufacturer says there is no problem.
And the BBC have added their own inference.
The statement says:
“Thankfully these trains benefit from a really sophisticated diagnostic system so when anything unexpected does arise, it is usually identified quickly.
The BBC have put this in front of it despite the statement not mentioning a fault.
Praising the technology which detected the fault,
i would say though that if it is just operational error that statement looks to be deliberately encouraging the inference that it is something else….
I don’t see any blame being apportioned to Stadler by Nexus on there own Statement, and BBC news article doesn’t either.
Both clearly state ‘operational issue’.
DanNCL
Established Member
The distinction between ‘operational issue’ and ‘technical issue’ isn’t the important bit here. Those two statements to the BBC quoted in my earlier post don’t exactly support each other, with the Stadler statement making it clear where they think the whole blame lies, whilst Nexus have, perhaps wisely, been careful not to point the finger at anyone.
There’s more to this than either side are publicly stating. We need to let the investigation run its course.
pazanate
Member
All I would say is that Stadler have a well earned reputation to protect. NEXUS is already in the gutter to begin with
Except maybe on Merseyside?
The 555s and 777s were built in the same factories by the same people using the same components from the same subcontrators.
This looks like the same issue seen with the 777s, relating to the door 'pre arm' feature. The door buttons on each side of the vestibules are linked together, so if a passenger presses the button on either side before the vehicle stops and the driver accidentally releases the doors on the wrong side, the vestibules that have pre-armed doors will open on the wrong side (which may be why Stadler are blaming it on the driver(s)). When the driver realised the mistake and subsequently released the doors on the correct side, the doors on the wrong side remained open until their automatic closing timeout expired.
This was experienced a number of times on the 777s, and being third rail it is even more of a safety issue. A couple of months ago people started noticing that the door 'pre arm' feature no longer worked - Stadler's solution was to do a software update to disable it, so now the door buttons only arm after the vehicle comes to a stop and the driver releases the doors.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Quite so. Schleswig-Holstein too, where the FLIRT AKKUs all had to be taken out of service after a couple of months until multiple software issues were resolved (which appears to be Stadler's achilles heel). Norway as well, where the FLIRTs operated by Vy suffered serious bogie and engine damage due to incorrect service documentation that was supplied to the customer.
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danielnez1
Member
After a few rides on them there is definitely room for improvement, like grab poles, and of course the searing layout.
hondafan1999
Member
Certainly not good that the doors opened on the wrong side, but is this a serious issue? A lot of countries don't even have doors on their trains and we don't use a 3rd rail for the Metro, is it really as dangerous as people are saying?
hopperelec
Member
I don't know much about trains in other countries, but I'd imagine there are measures in place to make those safer. But one reason I can say confidently is that people in those countries aren't expecting doors, so they will make sure they are more firmly on the train. In contrast, Metro passengers aren't expecting the doors on the wrong side to open up behind them, and they will often lean back on them. Also, even though we don't use 3rd rail, trains still run on the opposite track, so a passenger would risk falling right in front of another moving train.
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Can’t tell if you’re joking or not (or you’re a secret Nexus employee) but certainly when the old trains have been crush loaded at peak time it’s very easy to end up pushing against the non-platform-side doors and door buttons.
DanNCL
Established Member
Not entirely the case. Some different subcontractors, and only half of the 777s were built in the factory that’s building all of the 555s.
Definitely room for improvement but the build quality seems good.
We have much tighter legislation than many other countries. Certainly open doors like you see in places like Mumbai would never in a million years be allowed in the UK.
Interesting. I don't understand why the door buttons on each side of the vestibules are linked together; I don't see the benefits of designing the door system in this way.
If you don’t know the system by heart, you might not know which side the platform will be on at the next station.