South Wales 'Metro' updates

[MikePJ]

Interesting. Not to Coryton.

I know I said that the test train had been to Coryton the first time, but actually I think there are false manual entries showing up. The timings for Coryton don't seem to make sense.

(This occasionally happens with passenger trains that are turned round at Ty Glas but a manual entry is made showing them arriving and departing from Coryton)

And apparently Traksy at the time didn't show the train entering the branch.

Yeah, I don't think it went to Coryton either - that doesn't bode well.

 

[AdamWW]

There's also post-energisation testing of the overhead lines (this will include things like confirming that there's no electromagnetic interference to signalling once the trains are actually running), and then there's likely to be some crew familiarisation.

If there is any doubt about EMI affecting signalling would trains have to run under a possession? (Which the current test trains presumably aren't)

So what are the remaining hurdles to introducing the 756/1s on the Coryton line?

TfW are now saying "summer 2025" rather than "spring 2025" for entry into service, so that means June at the earliest and more likely July or August.

The fact that the current test trains don't seem to be entering the Coryton branch isn't very encouraging in that respect.

 

[positron]

What to expect from the £1bn ‘Welsh Tube’ set to open this year

Trains on the South Wales Metro will run every five minutes between Pontypridd and Cardiff

uk.news.yahoo.com

What to expect from the £1bn ‘Welsh Tube’ set to open this year

Six trains an hour will run between Caerphilly and Cardiff, 12 between Pontypridd and Cardiff, and more frequent evening trains will serve the lines.

On Sundays, the service will deliver two trains per hour between Cardiff and the heads of each valley.

Interesting that it seems Sundays aren't getting the 4 tph service. I was under the impression that the original plan included that.

 

[MikePJ]

Interesting that it seems Sundays aren't getting the 4 tph service. I was under the impression that the original plan included that.

Yeah, the last I heard (see this post) the Sunday service varied a bit from line to line. Quoting what I wrote based on the consultation document from August last year - "Sunday service reductions are variable, with Treherbert (for example) receiving 28 trains/day on a Sunday as against 35 trains/day, but some branches (e.g. Penarth) get a 50% reduction in service on a Sunday (i.e. 2 tph rather than 4)."

I also discovered in the TfW Board minutes that they were keen (back in November/December 2024) to look at ways of introducing 4tph (presumably on weekdays and Saturdays) on the TAM lines given that the 398s and Cardiff Bay line aren't ready yet. The December minutes (which are the most recent published online) talk about "plans to further develop the concept of 4tph on TAM via a shuttle service", which might mean a Merthyr-Abercynon-Aberdare service that's timed to meet a train going into Cardiff at Abercynon, and a similar Treherbert-Pontypridd service?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2025 ==

Here’s a couple of pictures at Butetown today. Electrical equipment for feeding the overhead wires has gone in, as have tensioner reels.

 

[AdamWW]

The fact that the current test trains don't seem to be entering the Coryton branch isn't very encouraging in that respect.

Realtimetrains is now showing test trains to Coryton in the early hours of Saturday morning.

We will see...

 

[MikePJ]

Here’s a couple of pictures at Butetown today. Electrical equipment for feeding the overhead wires has gone in, as have tensioner reels.

A couple of other Cardiff Bay branch updates - I think that some more cantilever arms have gone up at the south end of Butetown, and there were a whole gang of orange-clad workers on the track around the Cart Road Bridge (former canal bridge, now a cycle and footpath). One was using a total station, so clearly either laying something out or checking the position of something. The posession of the Bay branch ends tomorrow, and then there's a day closure on Sat 26th, followed by a two-week closure from May 10th - May 25th, which might well include the track slew to the new second platform because there's a consultation document out suggesting this will happen after 11th May.

 

[tigermonstera]

there were a whole gang of orange-clad workers on the track around the Cart Road Bridge (former canal bridge, now a cycle and footpath). One was using a total station, so clearly either laying something out or checking the position of something.

Ballast retention work for the second track, according to this letter here:

To facilitate a second track running from Bute Town station to Cardiff Bay station, we need to carry out ballast retention work at Cart road underbridge. This will involve installing L-shaped concrete sections on the existing bridge to maintain the integrity of the structure. These will then be waterproofed, and ballast will be placed in preparation for the installation of new track.

 

[MikePJ]

Ballast retention work for the second track, according to this letter here:

Ah, that makes sense! I'd seen the L-shaped concrete mouldings stockpiled and wondered what they were for.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2025 ==

Realtimetrains is now showing test trains to Coryton in the early hours of Saturday morning.

We will see...

The test trains definitely ran (756106 was the test unit - a 4-car), but there's no real-time reporting for stations on the Coryton branch during the tests.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12506/2025-04-19/detailed#allox_id=0 and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12504/2025-04-19/detailed#allox_id=0 were the two services booked to visit Coryton.

However, the timings at Heath Junction suggest that the trains probably did go to Coryton and back, as if they had skipped Coryton for some reason they're unlikely to have sat on the main line for 20 minutes.

I do wonder if this is to do with how the data feeds work - certainly on the Penarth branch (which is a similar one-train-only rule branch) it's noticeable that the timings at Dingle Road are created by a timing rule (i.e. "trains call at Dingle Rd x minutes after leaving Cogan Junction or y minutes after leaving Penarth") rather than by real data, as there's no train detection to confirm that the train has passed. If Coryton's the same, then perhaps no "real time" feed gets created for a train that's not in passenger service in the middle of the night.

 

[bradleyd]

I've read one one of the local Facebook groups (valley times) that they've started testing the tram trains recently, anybody know anything else, like when they may be doing so, locations to see etc?

 

[Chris125]

South Wales Metro Updates twitter feed has videos of a 756 on the Coryton Line.

 

[MikePJ]

I've read one one of the local Facebook groups (valley times) that they've started testing the tram trains recently, anybody know anything else, like when they may be doing so, locations to see etc?

Yes - have a look at the 398 thread (avoiding the endless argument about toilets...) - and generally you can find the planned test runs by searching for anything leaving Taff's Well Depot on Realtimetrains. The next planned run is on Monday (to both Treherbert and Aberdare) but there's no guarantee that they actually run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Apr 2025 ==

South Wales Metro Updates twitter feed has videos of a 756 on the Coryton Line.

Better late than never, eh?

 

[AdamWW]

The test trains definitely ran (756106 was the test unit - a 4-car), but there's no real-time reporting for stations on the Coryton branch during the tests.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12506/2025-04-19/detailed#allox_id=0 and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12504/2025-04-19/detailed#allox_id=0 were the two services booked to visit Coryton.

However, the timings at Heath Junction suggest that the trains probably did go to Coryton and back, as if they had skipped Coryton for some reason they're unlikely to have sat on the main line for 20 minutes.

I do wonder if this is to do with how the data feeds work - certainly on the Penarth branch (which is a similar one-train-only rule branch) it's noticeable that the timings at Dingle Road are created by a timing rule (i.e. "trains call at Dingle Rd x minutes after leaving Cogan Junction or y minutes after leaving Penarth") rather than by real data, as there's no train detection to confirm that the train has passed. If Coryton's the same, then perhaps no "real time" feed gets created for a train that's not in passenger service in the middle of the night.

(Edited to add response that didn't get posted earlier somehow)

Yes [as also explained below] the Coryton branch only gets automatic timings at stations if the train has GPS.

A manual (e.g. TRUST SDR) entry is also sometimes added for Coryton, and has indeed happened in this case now.

Of course such an entry isn't definitive and the timings are clearly wrong (it claims under 3 minutes from Heath Junction to Coryton which is too short even though the train didn't stop at the intermediate stations)

I don't know how these manual entries work but normally when they do this the departure time from Coryton seems to just be based on the same delay as arrival at Heath Jn (as is the case here).

 

[louis97]

I do wonder if this is to do with how the data feeds work - certainly on the Penarth branch (which is a similar one-train-only rule branch) it's noticeable that the timings at Dingle Road are created by a timing rule (i.e. "trains call at Dingle Rd x minutes after leaving Cogan Junction or y minutes after leaving Penarth") rather than by real data, as there's no train detection to confirm that the train has passed. If Coryton's the same, then perhaps no "real time" feed gets created for a train that's not in passenger service in the middle of the night.

The data at Dingle Road in the direction of Cardiff is accurate, as there a report triggered when a train departs Penarth. The opposite direction there is just one report on entering the branch.

Similarly on the Coryton branch, the data for Heath Low Level is accurate for trains in the direction of Cardiff. There is a report triggered shortly before trains arrival at Heath. However in the opposite direction, there is just one report on entering the branch.

On the Coryton branch you also get GPS reports for trains appropriately fitted, however you won't get these reports for a train like this as the trains are not timed at the intermediate stations, they are just infilled by RTT.

 

[AdamWW]

Similarly on the Coryton branch, the data for Heath Low Level is accurate for trains in the direction of Cardiff. There is a report triggered shortly before trains arrival at Heath. However in the opposite direction, there is just one report on entering the branch.

Possibly getting a bit off topic here, but Heath Low Level only seems to get a measured time on RTT in either direction if the train has GPS reporting.

 

[louis97]

Possibly getting a bit off topic here, but Heath Low Level only seems to get a measured time on RTT in either direction if the train has GPS reporting.

You're right, the report exists in the data, I forgot RTT doesn't do anything with it currently. It will do in the future.

 

[chargesmith]

Does anyone know when Ynyswen station is re-opening?

 

[MikePJ]

Does anyone know when Ynyswen station is re-opening?

"Autumn 2025", according to this webpage https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/south-wales-metro/treherbert-line-transformation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Apr 2025 ==

Quick update on the Bay branchline - several more cantilevers have gone up to support the overhead wires, and there's a single track mast that now has its its registration arm fitted. Groundworks are continuing for the second platform at Butetown - there's no structure built up above the foundations yet.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Does anyone know when Ynyswen station is re-opening?

At the risk of going off topic, should it reopen?

The number of stations on the Treherbert line compared to the Aberdare and Merthyr lines is very noticeable. It seems TfW has taken the view that places that already have stations should retain them rather than questioning why a settlement within easy walking distance of two othe stations should retain a service while similar settlements in the Taf and Cynon valleys have never had a service. Politics, one suspects.

 

[Zoomer]

I see the WalesOnline story posted earlier claims that Llwynypia will be getting toilets...

As part of the South Wales Metro upgrades, 10 stations on the Valleys lines will be getting new toilets - Abercynon, Aberdare, Merthyr Tydfil, Tonypandy, Treherbert, Cwmbach, Llwynypia, Merthyr Vale, Penrhiwceiber and Treorchy.

I assume that's a mistake, given that Tonypandy and Llwynypia are next to each other? Although there has been activity for some time at Llwynypia station with blue barriers (water?) - I'm not sure what they're doing.

 

[positron]

Wouldn't make much sense to add toilets to both and only Tonypandy shows as getting them according to the last electrification document (from Dec 2023).

At the risk of going off topic, should it reopen?

The number of stations on the Treherbert line compared to the Aberdare and Merthyr lines is very noticeable. It seems TfW has taken the view that places that already have stations should retain them rather than questioning why a settlement within easy walking distance of two othe stations should retain a service while similar settlements in the Taf and Cynon valleys have never had a service. Politics, one suspects.

If it was fine for years for a diesel heavy rail system, then closing it once they introduce an electrified tram-train metro system would be a bit backwards. We'll imagine they've not spent presumably a lot of money adding a second platform. Metro systems often have smaller gaps between stations because the increased acceleration and relatively low top speed makes them less costly in terms of timings. Coryton is another example of quite short gaps between stations.

I think if anything it probably shows that the other lines could do with additional stations.

Quick update on the Bay branchline - several more cantilevers have gone up to support the overhead wires, and there's a single track mast that now has its its registration arm fitted. Groundworks are continuing for the second platform at Butetown - there's no structure built up above the foundations yet.

Was surprised going along recently how fast the masts etc seem to be going up. Perhaps the tram ponty - bay service they planned is still in the works after all.

It seems the electrification limit is immediately north of the station, presumably just before the crossrail crossovers.

It'll be interesting to see how much active/passive provision for phase 1 crossrail is included in these works.

 

[MikePJ]

Was surprised going along recently how fast the masts etc seem to be going up. Perhaps the tram ponty - bay service they planned is still in the works after all.

It seems the electrification limit is immediately north of the station, presumably just before the crossrail crossovers.

It'll be interesting to see how much active/passive provision for phase 1 crossrail is included in these works.

The masts themselves are designed to be very quick to erect - it's all the groundwork that has taken the time, especially after local residents objected to the noise of the piling rigs in the evening.

As far as I can tell, the only visible provisions for Crossrail phase 1are:

- space has been left for a third track and platform at Cardiff Bay, and twin-track cantilevers have been used to reach across the space where the third track will go in order to hang the overhead wires for platform 2.
- the embankment opposite the Salvation Army building on Bute St has been replaced with a retaining wall. This is where the line to/from Callaghan Square will be on a ramp alongside the existing line, so it's likely that the retaining wall will eventually be the edge of the ramp.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Apr 2025 ==

Oh, one other thing that occurred to me on timings - there's likely to have to be some kind of transition of the Bay line to line-of-sight operation and a consequent load of driver training. But that training can't happen until the infra is finished so that the drivers can learn on it.

So I expect that what'll happen is that the Bay line will go through a staged transition and the line will remain fenced off from the general public (i.e. continuing to act as a "railway" rather than a "tramway") whilst the 398s are introduced. That'll allow for the 398s to be used for training alongside the existing diesel stock until all the trackwork and signalling is finished and all the drivers are trained, and only at that point will the fences come down and the line formally transition to tramway line-of-sight operation.

Anyway, the upshot of all that is that they will want to finish the electrification sooner rather than later so as to be able to begin driver training with the 398s.

 

[Last Hurrah]

Passing Aber station just beyond Caerphilly, it’s noticeable a number of Electrification masts & Cantilevers are already in place

 

[MikePJ]

Just a brief note to say that another consultation has gone live, extending the "temporary" closure of the Hirwaun branch for another three years.

 

[AdamWW]

Just a brief note to say that another consultation has gone live, extending the "temporary" closure of the Hirwaun branch for another three years.

What would the alternative be? Keeping it operable just with no trains on it?

 

[MikePJ]

What would the alternative be? Keeping it operable just with no trains on it?

Either that or have it formally closed. But given the Welsh Government aspires to convert it to passenger use, having it temporarily closed is probably the best approach.

 

[The exile]

Either that or have it formally closed. But given the Welsh Government aspires to convert it to passenger use, having it temporarily closed is probably the best approach.

Presumably a line that is “temporarily closed” retains all its “grandfather rights” whereas reopening a closed line would have to be to more exacting modern standards.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Presumably a line that is “temporarily closed” retains all its “grandfather rights” whereas reopening a closed line would have to be to more exacting modern standards.

I think that's probably right although I suspect that when and if the line to Hirwaun or beyond that, to the Tower Colliery site reopens, it will operate under tram rather than heavy rail regulations.

 

[The exile]

I think that's probably right although I suspect that when and if the line to Hirwaun or beyond that, to the Tower Colliery site reopens, it will operate under tram rather than heavy rail regulations.

But there will presumably be fewer opportunities for objections

 

[MikePJ]

I think that's probably right although I suspect that when and if the line to Hirwaun or beyond that, to the Tower Colliery site reopens, it will operate under tram rather than heavy rail regulations.

Yes, and a long-closed line generally ends up being completely rebuilt anyway - it's extremely unlikely that the existing track will be in any fit state to be used by the time they come to run trams on it. Closing a line formally involves revoking the Act of Parliament that built it, which then discharges all the legal rights that the railway currently has over that land, so the railway authorities prefer not to do that if they expect to reuse it as a railway. It's been interesting seeing how the plans for the second platform at Penarth have been justified (without planning permission) because the original Act of Parliament grants the railway company (and Network Rail as their legal successor) the right to build structures within a certain distance of the intended route.

 

[tigermonstera]

TfW's Communities Facebook page has published details (linked here) of upcoming Bay Line works:

CARDIFF BAY
• From Thursday 01 May to Saturday 31 May 2025 there will be ground Investigation Works between Cardiff Central station and north of Bute Street.
• We'll be working round the clock from 23:00 on Friday 9 May to 23:00 on Tuesday 13 May 2025 for track works.
• We'll be carrying out sheet piling work at Butetown station from 00:40 on Saturday 10 May to 05:00 on Monday 26 May 2025.
• We'll be installing the new wires between Wednesday 14 May and Saturday 17 May 2025 in the daytime only.
• From Saturday 10 May to Sunday 25 May, engineering work is taking place between Cardiff Queen Street and Cardiff Bay, closing the Bay line.
• We'll be implementing traffic management on a section of Bute Street, which will be in place from Sunday 11 May for a minimum of three months, with a possibility of extending till later in the year.

TfW's website (linked here) also confirms that the platform switch will happen during the closure this month:

From 26 May onwards until the Bay line transformation project is complete, customers will no longer be able to access Cardiff Bay station from Bute Street onto Cardiff Bay platform 1. Customers will be diverted onto the new platform 2 from the Lloyd George Avenue side of the station.