Why people travel via London

[northwichcat]

For a North West - South West option I found the following:

Standard single: £140

CrossCountry Advance (available on 2 journey options per day): £33

South West-Paddington Advance (many journey options per day): £14.50
Euston-North West Advance (many journey options per day): £12.50

It's hardly surprising when the government boasts about how much investment lines in to London need because of all the tickets sold to London, when pricing and speed of service mean people who shouldn't need to go via London finish up doing so.

 

[asylumxl]

You're right it isn't surprising. But what's even less surprising is that Arriva Cross Country is the company involved...

 

[rail-britain]

Difference is £7 in order to save the cross-London change, well worth it in my opinion
What is the difference in total travel time?

Many of my customers will quite happily pay more to find direct services, no cross-London transfer, and so on

 

[northwichcat]

What is the difference in total travel time?

8 hours (fastest) not via London.

9 hours via London including allowing 2 hours to get between Paddington and Euston.

Difference is £7 in order to save the cross-London change, well worth it in my opinion

As I said the £33 XC Advance fare only allows two journey options per day. One is a 3pm departure, arriving at 11pm. The other is an 18:45 departure which involves a lengthy overnight connection time. If you want to leave before 3pm then it's saving you over £100 to go via London.

 

[Lampshade]

Personally, I travel via London because it's easy. It saves messing around with connections in Birmingham/Banbury/Reading where the chances are you'll be wedged in a vestibule for hours on end.

 

[SS4]

I'm not surprised. London is the hub of the network, there are very few counties that do not have a direct train link there.

Going via London will also give you an unofficial break of journey - whether due to the planner's tendency to vastly overestimate changing times (40 minutes between KGX and EUS?!) or if you're using two advance tickets you can pick a later train to depart on.

 

[Statto]

It's also a break in the journey, the last thing you would want too do is spend all day on a Voyager even if it is changing at Birmingham/Bristol or Reading, plus longer trains running via London so more chance of getting a seat.

 

[class377man]

It's also a break in the journey, the last thing you would want too do is spend all day on a Voyager even if it is changing at Birmingham/Bristol or Reading, plus longer trains running via London so more chance of getting a seat.

That, and you'll be boarding at the start of the journey.

 

[Failed Unit]

For me via London is a no brainer (living in Scotland)

Quicker, Cheaper, More comfortable.

 

[Clip]

For me via London is a no brainer (living in Scotland)

Quicker, Cheaper, More comfortable.

This. It just seems so much better to go via london even with the tube journey too..

 

[deltic1989]

When I was in the navy if I didn't drive I went from Lincoln to Plymouth via London just for the stop off and shopping opportunity. Just preferred it I suppose.

 

[WestCoast]

Anything to avoid sitting hours on a packed CrossCountry Voyager!

 

[Minilad]

Personally I would pay extra to avoid going via London.
Thankfully not many of my journeys give me the choice

 

[tbtc]

The title of this thread is "Why people travel via London". However, the point is that so many people *do* use Cross Country that passenger numbers are uncomfortably high meaning that XC have little scope to offer £33 fares on each service (whilst there are sufficient spare seats on services into/out of London that allows Intercity operators to flog them for £15).

Given that routes to/from the capital tend to be much faster with longer trains and more frequent services, its no wonder that some would prefer to travel through London (even if the tickets cost the same amount and there were no bargain fares), especially if doing journeys involving an Intercity station at each end.

 

[Failed Unit]

Back in the day, would have used XC for the direct train, but now the only place you can get too is Plymouth or change at Birmingham the advantage has gone. Edinburgh - Oxford for example is for me so much easier via London.

 

[yorkie]

I always go via London where possible. XC have absolutely no interest in retaining our custom; indeed they appear to be pricing us off their trains so want us to boycott them. Therefore, I will do as they wish and avoid them where it is practicable to do so.

If I book 12 weeks in advance, I can get York-London for about £10 (even on busy trains), and London to the South West for about £10. What are the chances of getting a York to the South West Advance for £20 these days? Very slim!

XC trains are NOT full of people doing long journeys, and these customers are being deliberately priced off / put off using XC. On the contrary, XC is very busy with short-hop journeys. Their trains are also very short; there are more people on a 2+9 EC HST that has plenty of seats available than on a 4-car Voyager that has every seat taken. It's a myth/illusion that loads of people are prepared to pay a premium for, and put up with 6+ hours on an awful Voyager with minimal (if any) catering, no break of journey/fresh air, no Wifi/terrible phone reception, rattling and all the other faults of those trains.

Via London almost every time for me!

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't know if they have improved as I haven't bothered looking recently but FGW, virgin and East coast tend to open advance bookings before XC. If you want cheap it was take the east coast / FGW combo rather than risk XC. You also have (or did in east coast case) have better catering in first class, the travelling chef is very good.

 

[asylumxl]

I always go via London where possible. XC have absolutely no interest in retaining our custom; indeed they appear to be pricing us off their trains so want us to boycott them.

Could not agree more. We used to often book Plymouth to Bristol Temple Meads, and even as little as a year or so back, it was possible to get reasonably cheap tickets. Now the chances of getting that on XC are almost non existant in my experience.

 

[Failed Unit]

I guess if you are travelling at weekends they are hard to plan with. I have seen much critism that the don't publish engineering work timetables.

 

[MadCommuter]

9 hours via London including allowing 2 hours to get between Paddington and Euston.

Is this via rickshaw?

I suppose you need to allow this much time in case of delays on the 1st leg. Without through ticketing and in the event of a delay on the 1st leg, meaning you miss the 2nd leg, I doubt there would be much sympathy given.

 

[sheff1]

Pre Virgin, I used to travel on cross-country trains to the South West or Reading/Hampshire - comfortable and with reasonable catering although not particularly fast.

After introduction of the appalling Voyagers, I very soon transferred to via London. A comfortable HST to St Pancras with good catering won hands down.

Then, EMT trains decided that a Voyager clone would be the best option on the Sheffield route and concentrated the HSTs on the shorter Nottingham run . This, coupled with the downgrade of catering by EMT, triggered me to travel via Doncaster and Kings Cross which again offered good catering in comfortable trains. However, the recent EC catering changes have removed one reason I was happy to undertake a more convoluted journey. As a result I have now reverted to EMT to St Pancras. Although not an ideal option for long distance travel, in my opinion, the Meridens are at least not as bad as Voyagers. Plus EMT have improved the catering again recently.

So, if I am travelling to Reading/Hampshire or the South West, I would always go via London as this offers better catering on at least one leg of the journey with the alternative of a break to eat in London if I want.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Sometimes I will pay a bit extra and take a longer journey time to go via London in order to get a seat. Specifically of I am going from Epsom to Portsmouth I'll go via London; I could save some money and time by going via Effingham Jct to Guildford but I know from experience that it'll be virtually impossible to find a good seat if I board the Portsmouth at Guildford...

 

[LE Greys]

Because there is no choice in my case. I can go to various places east of here by heading for Cambridge, but west of here gives me a choice between a long slog with at least one change (involving a footbridge) via Peterborough, Leicester and Birmingham. There is no nice, convenient route west from the ECML, so if I took leave of my senses and decided to go to Luton or Milton Keynes, I would have to go the long way round or via London. That is a serious pain in the rear end.

 

[northwichcat]

However, the point is that so many people *do* use Cross Country that passenger numbers are uncomfortably high.

If you were doing Manchester-Birmingham, Newcastle-Birmingham etc then going via London is not a suitable option, so using XC is a better option.

Also if you did not know your journey plans in advance and need to travel at peak times, it's cheaper for most people to go not via London.

 

[PinzaC55]

jcollins said " allowing 2 hours to get between Paddington and Euston."

By what means? Donkey and cart?

 

[Failed Unit]

jcollins said " allowing 2 hours to get between Paddington and Euston."

By what means? Donkey and cart?

On foot, although I could probably walk it in about 1 hour.

 

[northwichcat]

jcollins said " allowing 2 hours to get between Paddington and Euston."

By what means? Donkey and cart?

If you have a Virgin Advance from Euston and miss you're train and say it's because the FGW service was delayed, which you had a different Advance ticket for then I don't think the Virgin staff would 'let you off.'

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge- Stirling, next time I travel I'll go via London as it means I can do a single-change journey- used to be able to do this via Peterborough.

 

[yorkie]

I suppose you need to allow this much time in case of delays on the 1st leg. Without through ticketing and in the event of a delay on the 1st leg, meaning you miss the 2nd leg, I doubt there would be much sympathy given.

Providing you allow the minimum connection time, you're covered. However it can be a good move to allow more time, particularly if you want a break for food.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you have a Virgin Advance from Euston and miss you're train and say it's because the FGW service was delayed, which you had a different Advance ticket for then I don't think the Virgin staff would 'let you off.'

They have to abide by the Conditions of Carriage! They have to allow you to travel if you are on a valid combination of tickets.

Virgin should ensure that, for the avoidance of doubt, guards are instructed to allow travel in the event of delays to an earlier leg on a customers' journey. As Virgin are not covered by the Freedom of Information Act, I can only assume/hope that they have done so but am unable to quote it.

However I can quote this from East Coast:

Advance Purchase ticket(s) – when to accept on
EC trains other than the one shown on the ticket.
In the last few issues of PTU there were articles
about what tickets and when should be Advance
tickets be accepted on EC trains other than the one
shown on the ticket.
For clarity the definitive answer where a customer
has split tickets, e.g. a Harrogate<>York and a York
<> London ticket, and the Harrogate- York train is
late, the York<>London ticket should still be
accepted on the next available EC service.

Also, I have confirmation from ATOC that combinations of tickets do cover the customer for their entire journey, subject to the minimum interchange time being allowed.

We've been through this several times before, it is valid, you are covered, and in the unlikely event of anyone being charged a fare under such circumstances I would encourage them to refuse to hand over any cash up front, obtain an unpaid fare notice, and contact me for assistance.

Indeed, this did happen to someone who contacted me for assistance. The guard (who is extremely well known on the EC route for being "desperate", but I'll choose not to reveal his name!) was given 'suitable advice', and the customer had their unpaid fare notice dropped, and a reminder issued to staff that such combinations are valid.

If any other guards want to be on the receiving end of suitable advice, then that's a bad choice by them! Very, very few guards would attempt to charge a customer for a delay on the Railway. Those that do, need to be dealt with so that they can stop giving the vast majority of guards - who do a good job - an undeserved bad name.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Regularly travel Leeds to St Ives. My prefered route would be direct to St Erth with CrossCountry.

I am not a big fan of Voyagers but would travel on one. The things that put me off taking XC direct:

1) The cost - outrageously high most of the time
2) The catering service on XC - I would at least like to be able to get hot food / a meal
3) The trains - although not a deal breaker

Why I travel via London from Leeds to St Ives:

1) It is often cheaper - almost always
2) Even cheaper sometimes when taking the excellent FGW sleeper
3) Better catering
4) Better trains
5) Doesn't always take that much longer

Thats why I often go via London. XC has so much potential but doesn't use it. (I so hope an innovative company gets the XC franchise next time)

(I have flown sometimes too - it shocked me that it was cheaper to get a train to Manchester AND my plane ticket to Newquay for well under half of the XC fare.)