Currency used onboard cross border trains and buses.

[nwales58]

It was quite a complicated system, based on a basket of currencies …

Fascinating.

There are other examples of this elsewhere too, where the fare is dramatically higher if you buy it from DB rather than from the Polish conductors.

But also the DB 1 euro fares across the border to Szczecin, Slubice and Zasieki which are not offered in the journey planner but which can be bought on board nor at other crossings such as Gubin. Despite being advertised as add-on to polish fares or Deutschlandticket.

 

[trebor79]

Some 25 years ago we were interrailing round Europe. I have a distinct memory that the berth upgrade on the Budapest to Krakow sleeper could be paid in any currency except Hungarian Forint.
Of course we had loads of Forints which the attendant was adamant he could not accept. I think we ended up paying with a mixture of Dutch Guilder, Swiss Francs and whatever currency Austria used at the time. He did the conversions with pencil and paper.
All communicated with gestures.

 

[rvdborgt]

Some 25 years ago we were interrailing round Europe. I have a distinct memory that the berth upgrade on the Budapest to Krakow sleeper could be paid in any currency except Hungarian Forint.
Of course we had loads of Forints which the attendant was adamant he could not accept. I think we ended up paying with a mixture of Dutch Guilder, Swiss Francs and whatever currency Austria used at the time.

I suppose it was a sleeper managed by PKP and that they only wanted "hard" currency or maybe Polish currency, but nothing else...
[Austria had s(c)hillings.]

 

[AlastairFraser]

As it turns out, shops want people to spend money - they don't care what currency it is! Walk around and you'll see many shops post their store's exchange rate for the day in the window, and indeed many shops compete on their exchange rate to get the punters in.

Indeed, although in this case, there is the potential to benefit from the exchange rate fluctuations.

 

[berneyarms]

Thank you for the information. I forgot about how many cross border services the NI/ROI border has. It has been made much more complex with Ireland joining the Euro area. I remember during my first couple visits to NI/ROI the British Pound and Irish Pound were accepted in both countries at a 1:1 rate and you could normally use either.

I am surprised that the Newry to Dundalk local bus accepts EUR only. That must be very inconvenient for passengers. The local currency exchanges must do well. It seems especially poor as you could potentially use it for local NI journeys and can not even pay with the currency of your country.

Looking online there are exactly 50 different cross border bus routes and many appear to be short distance local buses (similar to the Dundalk to Newry bus) that only go a very short distance across the border:



I wonder if any of the other local ones are GBP only or EUR only? If the Dundalk to Newry only accepts one currency then it would not surprise me if there are a few more cross border bus routes like this?

Yes i think he probably meant solely on cross border services. I highly doubt that the domestic services do. There is certainly nothing that i can find on the Irish Rail or Translink websites to state that domestic services accept either currency.

Your list of routes is a little bit off - most of the Ulsterbus routes are very small variants of one another - I really wouldn't call them separate routes.

You also omitted several Local Link routes and private operator routes.
I would suggest the following is a more appropriate list:

• 1A/1B - Derry NI to Muff ROI (TL FM)
• 30 - Donegal ROI to Dublin ROI (BE)
• 32/X32 - Letterkenny ROI to Dublin ROI (BÉ Expressway)
• 58/58A/58D/58F - Enniskillen NI to Belturbet ROI (TL UB)
• 64 - Derry NI to Galway ROI (BÉ Expressway)
• 64B/64C - Enniskillen NI to Belleek NI (TL UB) (No bus stops in ROI)
• 69B/69C - Armagh NI to Castleblaney ROI (TL UB)
• 95/95A/95E/95F - Enniskillen NI to Clones ROI (TL UB)
• 99/99A - Enniskillen NI to Belleek NI (TL UB)
• 70/70A - Armagh NI to Monaghan ROI (TL UB)
• 160 - Newry NI to Dundalk ROI (BÉ)
• 161 - Newry NI to Dundalk ROI (BÉ)
• 162 - Monaghan ROI to Dundalk ROI (BÉ) (No stops in NI)
• 175A - Monaghan ROI to Cavan ROI (BÉ) (No stops in NI)
• 183 - Derry NI to Killea ROI (TL UB)
• 192/192A/192B - Enniskillen NI to Swanlinbar ROI (TL UB)
• 194B - Enniskillen NI to Bundoran ROI (TL UB)
• 195 - Belleek NI to Bundoran ROI (TL UB)
• 195A - Pettigo NI to Castlecaldwell NI (TL UB)
• 270/270U/271 - Belfast NI to Monaghan ROI (TL GL)
• 278 - Portrush NI to Monaghan ROI (TL GL)
• 288 - Derry NI to Ballybofey ROI (Local Link)
• 458 - Enniskillen NI to Ballina ROI (BÉ)
• 480 - Derry NI to Sligo ROI (BÉ)
• 487 - Strabane NI to Letterkenny ROI (BÉ)
• 489 - Strabane NI to Letterkenny ROI (BÉ)
• 494 - Strabane NI to Ballybofey ROI (BÉ)
• 705X - Derry NI to Belfast NI to Dublin ROI (Aircoach)
• 785 - Belfast NI to Dublin ROI (Dublin Express)
• 931 - Anagaire & Bunbeg ROI to Derry and Belfast NI (Patrick Gallagher)
• 932 - Anagaire ROI to Dublin ROI (McGinley)
• 933 - Moville ROI to Dublin ROI (McGinley)
• 952 - Malin & Carndonagh ROI to Derry NI (Local Link)
• 956 - Buncrana ROI to Derry NI (McGonagle Bus & Coach Buncrana)
• 957 - Greencastle ROI to Derry NI (Local Link)
• 976 - Buncrana ROI to Derry NI (McGonagle Bus & Coach Hire)
• X1/X2/X5 - Belfast and Newry NI to Dublin Airport and Dublin ROI (TL GL)
• X3 - Derry NI to Dublin ROI (TL GL)
• X4 - Derry NI to Dublin ROI (TL GL)

 

[zero]

When I passed through Lotstetten and Jestetten (Germany) on trains, I believe I only saw Swiss ticket machines at the stations. These take CHF coins and notes, and euro notes at a poor exchange rate.

I took bus 25 and 7349 (now renumbered 33) between Schaffhausen (CH) and Singen (DE) crossing the border 5 times. I believe 25 was a Swiss route and 7349 was a German route. I think, but am not certain, that drivers would only have accepted their respective currencies in cash onboard, even for short journeys starting/ending solely in the opposite country. It should be noted that Büsingen uses CHF despite being in Germany.



At the Hong Kong/Zhuhai/Macau Bridge (HZMB), the regular daytime single fare for the bus for both routes - Hong Kong to Macau, and Hong Kong to Zhuhai - is CNY 58 or HKD/MOP 65. When paying electronically, the price used is the one in the currency of the point of departure.

For context: MOP 1.03 is fixed to HKD 1, but almost all Macanese merchants accept HKD cash as if it was MOP, including giving change in HKD. Bureaux de change in Macau readily trade HKD cash to MOP at 1.028 or 1.029, and MOP to HKD at 1.032 or 1.033. Therefore, users of HKD cash in Macau lose approx 3% per transaction, but need to weigh this up against the hassle of exchanging and the risk of exchanging too much.

(In Macau casinos accept only HKD cash, while possibly HKD cash is not accepted for government payments.)

MOP cash is not accepted in Hong Kong. However, at the Hong Kong port, when paying cash for the HZMB bus fare priced in HKD, MOP 100 banknotes (worth approx HKD 97) are accepted as if they were HKD 100 banknotes, and change is given in HKD.

Officially only MOP 100 banknotes are accepted, but it may be possible to convince inexperienced cashiers to accept other denominations. Potentially one could buy an MOP 500 banknote from a Hong Kong bureau de change for HKD 485, use it to pay the HKD/MOP 65 fare and receive HKD 435 in change, thus making the fare effectively HKD 50. Obviously, nobody is getting rich off of this.

CNY 100 notes are also accepted at the Hong Kong and Macau ports as if they were HKD / MOP 100 notes, but this would be pointless at the prevailing exchange rates over the 6.5 years the bridge has been in operation.

 

[Route115?]

Eurostar wouldn't accept Euros at St Pancras for Paris metro tickets but I think that was so that they could use unfavourable exchange rates.

I saw SBB & DB ticket vending machines next to each other at smaller stations in the Basel area a few years ago. I don't know if this is still the case.

 

[stadler]

I am surprised at how many oddities there are. Especially ones like the 929 across the Germany to Poland border. I can not imagine many Polish people keep Euros at home. But maybe in the border areas it is more common.

Another one to add to that list that only takes one currency and not the other is Usedomer Bader Bahn operate cross border trains across the Germany to Poland border. They only accept EUR onboard. Paying in PLN is no longer possible. From the information on their website this appears to be a new policy and they only recently stopped accepting it.

Another interesting one i have remembered is on the USA Canada border with the Detroit to Windsor local bus. This is the one and only local bus to cross the USA Canada border. It accepts both currencies but charges exactly the same amount in each. So it costs USD10.00 (CAD13.88) or CAD10.00 (USD7.21) for a single. As a result this means that using Canadian Dollars is much cheaper than US Dollars and you save about 30% using it. Most services in Europe that accept multiple currencies have a much smaller difference and you only save a tiny amount by paying with one currency over the other.

Also for payment onboard (eg at restaurants or at the gift shop etc) the Smyril Line ferry to Iceland they accepted six currencies (GBP EUR DKK SEK NOK ISK) when i last used them but the strangest thing was that they had two separate rates for DKK for Faroese banknotes and Danish banknotes. You got a better rate for paying with Faroese banknotes and a worse rate for paying with Danish banknotes. This is the equivalent of if a bus or train or ferry in the UK had one better price for Bank Of England banknotes and another worse price for Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes. It was only a small difference but it still seemed very strange.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Another interesting one i have remembered is on the USA Canada border with the Detroit to Windsor local bus. This is the one and only local bus to cross the USA Canada border. It accepts both currencies but charges exactly the same amount in each. So it costs USD10.00 (CAD13.88) or CAD10.00 (USD7.21) for a single. As a result this means that using Canadian Dollars is much cheaper than US Dollars and you save about 30% using it. Most services in Europe that accept multiple currencies have a much smaller difference and you only save a tiny amount by paying with one currency over the other.

Sadly this service is going to be discontinued soon sadly.
There are proposals to extend Amtrak/VIA Rail services across the border - not sure what the currency options will be on that.

 

[NCT]

Looks like some countries could do with introducing 'THIS IS LEGAL TENDER!!!!!!' legislation.

 

[stadler]

Sadly this service is going to be discontinued soon sadly.
There are proposals to extend Amtrak/VIA Rail services across the border - not sure what the currency options will be on that.

How ridiculous. So two large cities on opposite sides of the river will have no public transport linking them. Amtrack or Via Rail will probably be something like once a day and mainly intended for long distance travel. I think the bridge and tunnel are vehicle only so pedestrians will have no way to cross the border.

 

[RT4038]

How ridiculous. So two large cities on opposite sides of the river will have no public transport linking them. Amtrack or Via Rail will probably be something like once a day and mainly intended for long distance travel. I think the bridge and tunnel are vehicle only so pedestrians will have no way to cross the border.

Taxi ?

 

[stadler]

Taxi ?

Yes that is an option but it would be very expensive. Plus you might have difficulty finding a taxi driver who has their passport on them. It is not really a replacement for a frequent cross border bus service.

 

[The exile]

I am surprised at how many oddities there are. Especially ones like the 929 across the Germany to Poland border. I can not imagine many Polish people keep Euros at home. But maybe in the border areas it is more common.

Another one to add to that list that only takes one currency and not the other is Usedomer Bader Bahn operate cross border trains across the Germany to Poland border. They only accept EUR onboard. Paying in PLN is no longer possible. From the information on their website this appears to be a new policy and they only recently stopped accepting it.

Of course it is impossible to make a journey entirely in Poland on the UBB - so anyone travelling is going to needs Euros (or a card, of course) when they reach their destination.

 

[AlastairFraser]

How ridiculous. So two large cities on opposite sides of the river will have no public transport linking them. Amtrack or Via Rail will probably be something like once a day and mainly intended for long distance travel. I think the bridge and tunnel are vehicle only so pedestrians will have no way to cross the border.

Blame Windsor City Council's conservative mayor: Windsor bus service ending
On the other hand, the new Gordie Howe International Bridge will have shared pedestrian/cycle paths, so there will be one way to cross the river without needing a car.

 

[dub_boi]

the strangest thing was that they had two separate rates for DKK for Faroese banknotes and Danish banknotes. You got a better rate for paying with Faroese banknotes and a worse rate for paying with Danish banknotes. This is the equivalent of if a bus or train or ferry in the UK had one better price for Bank Of England banknotes and another worse price for Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes.

Slightly OT, but when I was Interrailing in the early 90s, I noticed a Bureau de Change at a station in Germany which offered something like DM2.51 for "Pfund Großbritannien" and DM2.52 (i.e a slightly better rate) for "Pfund Nordirland". Bearing in mind the problems paying with Northern Irish banknotes in England, I was very amused to see a bank in Germany specifically welcoming them! Sadly I had no NI notes on me at the time

 

[zero]

I can not imagine many Polish people keep Euros at home. But maybe in the border areas it is more common.

Also for payment onboard (eg at restaurants or at the gift shop etc) the Smyril Line ferry to Iceland they accepted six currencies (GBP EUR DKK SEK NOK ISK) when i last used them but the strangest thing was that they had two separate rates for DKK for Faroese banknotes and Danish banknotes. You got a better rate for paying with Faroese banknotes and a worse rate for paying with Danish banknotes.

When I have spoken to Polish people about cash, I was led to believe that it is quite common to keep Euros to hand, which may even be used for high value private transactions that occur entirely inside Poland (could be 5 figures). Note that it's very common to find bureaux de change (kantor) all over Poland and they trade euros with tiny spreads, so many people can easily spend euros locally if they wanted to.


That is interesting about Faroese banknotes on the ship. When I visited the Faroe Islands I used Danish banknotes everywhere and had no problems, but I never saw anyone else using cash. Some merchants remarked that it was rare for them to see Danish notes, as local users of cash would only get Faroese notes from their bank / ATM. Most of them happily exchanged my Danish notes directly to Faroese beyond the value of my purchases (I wanted lots of Faroese notes to sell in the UK for multiples of face value).

However one shopkeeper did not want to do the exchange, he tried to explain why but at the time I did not understand, until today when I learned this information about the practice on board this ferry. I think he was trying to tell me that he had to pay higher fees to deposit/withdraw Danish notes at the bank than Faroese notes. Perhaps it is also the case for the ferry company.

There is also an issue around the world with bureaux de change and DKK currency, but I don't wish to derail the thread further. Suffice to say that in Poland you can often buy DKK for 5-10% cheaper than its actual value.

Slightly OT, but when I was Interrailing in the early 90s, I noticed a Bureau de Change at a station in Germany which offered something like DM2.51 for "Pfund Großbritannien" and DM2.52 (i.e a slightly better rate) for "Pfund Nordirland". Bearing in mind the problems paying with Northern Irish banknotes in England, I was very amused to see a bank in Germany specifically welcoming them! Sadly I had no NI notes on me at the time

I do not understand why they paid more for NI notes than BOE - perhaps they or you were mistaken - but I have found bureaux de change in Poland, Bulgaria, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam that sell Scottish and sometimes NI notes for under their worth. Obviously they buy them from the public for even less.

I have managed to purchase IOM, Jersey, Guernsey and Gibraltar notes from some of these shops for well below face value (once when I found these were available, I went straight to an ATM, took out £1000 of the local currency and they gave me £1150 of the "exotic" notes).

 

[dub_boi]

I do not understand why they paid more for NI notes than BOE - perhaps they or you were mistaken - but I have found bureaux de change in Poland, Bulgaria, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam that sell Scottish and sometimes NI notes for under their worth. Obviously they buy them from the public for even less.

I was very surprised to see a separate rate for "Pfund Nordirland" in the first place, so I took a careful look at the rates. The better rate made no sense to me and I suspect they had made a mistake. Perhaps the pound had dropped against the DM but they had forgotten to update the NI rate.

 

[stadler]

Of course it is impossible to make a journey entirely in Poland on the UBB - so anyone travelling is going to needs Euros (or a card, of course) when they reach their destination.

That is true. But i suppose some people might not have Euros on them and have not got to a currency exchange yet. Ideally i think all cross border routes should accept both currencies. This seems like the common sense and passenger friendly thing to do.

Slightly OT, but when I was Interrailing in the early 90s, I noticed a Bureau de Change at a station in Germany which offered something like DM2.51 for "Pfund Großbritannien" and DM2.52 (i.e a slightly better rate) for "Pfund Nordirland". Bearing in mind the problems paying with Northern Irish banknotes in England, I was very amused to see a bank in Germany specifically welcoming them! Sadly I had no NI notes on me at the time

I think that must have been a mistake. I reckon they simply got them the wrong way round. Maybe it was meant to be 2.51 for Northern Ireland banknotes and 2.52 for Bank Of England banknotes. Although even then i would be surprised at such a little difference. Normally the rate for Northern Irish banknotes is much worse. So who knows.

Giving a lower rate for Scotland / Northern Ireland / Isle Of Man / Guernsey / Jersey / Gibraltar banknotes is still very common. In fact i do not think any currency exchange gives the same rate. You will find many currency exchanges in touristy areas of Europe that accept these but they always give less. Normally it is around 5% to 10% less.

The worst i have ever seen was a currency exchange in Moscow that gave 50% less for Scotland / Northern Ireland / Isle Of Man / Guernsey / Jersey / Gibraltar banknotes. I still have a photo of the board i took. They gave RUB92.00 for Bank Of England banknotes or RUB46.00 for Scotland / Northern Ireland / Isle Of Man / Guernsey / Jersey / Gibraltar banknotes. I think this currency exchange was probably one of the only ones in Moscow (and maybe one of the only ones in Russia even) that exchanged these other banknotes. So i guess if you have to exchange them then you really have no choice as almost no other currency exchange accepts them.

When I have spoken to Polish people about cash, I was led to believe that it is quite common to keep Euros to hand, which may even be used for high value private transactions that occur entirely inside Poland (could be 5 figures). Note that it's very common to find bureaux de change (kantor) all over Poland and they trade euros with tiny spreads, so many people can easily spend euros locally if they wanted to.


That is interesting about Faroese banknotes on the ship. When I visited the Faroe Islands I used Danish banknotes everywhere and had no problems, but I never saw anyone else using cash. Some merchants remarked that it was rare for them to see Danish notes, as local users of cash would only get Faroese notes from their bank / ATM. Most of them happily exchanged my Danish notes directly to Faroese beyond the value of my purchases (I wanted lots of Faroese notes to sell in the UK for multiples of face value).

However one shopkeeper did not want to do the exchange, he tried to explain why but at the time I did not understand, until today when I learned this information about the practice on board this ferry. I think he was trying to tell me that he had to pay higher fees to deposit/withdraw Danish notes at the bank than Faroese notes. Perhaps it is also the case for the ferry company.

There is also an issue around the world with bureaux de change and DKK currency, but I don't wish to derail the thread further. Suffice to say that in Poland you can often buy DKK for 5-10% cheaper than its actual value.



I do not understand why they paid more for NI notes than BOE - perhaps they or you were mistaken - but I have found bureaux de change in Poland, Bulgaria, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam that sell Scottish and sometimes NI notes for under their worth. Obviously they buy them from the public for even less.

I have managed to purchase IOM, Jersey, Guernsey and Gibraltar notes from some of these shops for well below face value (once when I found these were available, I went straight to an ATM, took out £1000 of the local currency and they gave me £1150 of the "exotic" notes).

Yes i think you are right about the reason for some businesses being reluctant to take Danish banknotes. I remember asking a staff member onboard the ferry and he said something about the Faroese banks charging a high fee to deposit Danish banknotes. So that is why they charged a higher price to pay with them onboard. Smyril Line are based in the Faroe Islands so would be depositing all their cash at a Faroese bank. I presume it is inconvenience for the Faroese banks to deal with so they add a fee.

I found that generally in larger business and the areas of the Faroe Islands frequented by tourists most places will take Danish banknotes without issue. But once you go to smaller and less touristy places or smaller businesses they are not accepted at all. I came across three or four small independent businesses that would not take them. Probably the smaller the business the less likely they are to accept them.

On the opposite side try using a Faroe Islands banknote in Mainland Denmark and nobody will accept it at all. I had some Faroe Islands banknotes leftover when i went to Mainland Denmark and nobody even knew what they were. They are even harder to use than using a Scotland / Northern Ireland / Isle Of Man / Guernsey / Jersey / Gibraltar banknotes in English and Welsh shops. Even shops in Hirtshals (the Danish ferry port for the Faroe Islands ferry) would not take them and most had no clue what they were. One person thought they were Icelandic currency. Although in the town of Seythisfjorthur (the Icelandic ferry port for the Faroe Islands ferry) i was pleasantly surprised to see that the one currency exchange there had a sign (in four languages) saying they accept both Danish and Faroese banknotes and offer the same rate for both.

 

[The exile]

Slightly OT, but when I was Interrailing in the early 90s, I noticed a Bureau de Change at a station in Germany which offered something like DM2.51 for "Pfund Großbritannien" and DM2.52 (i.e a slightly better rate) for "Pfund Nordirland". Bearing in mind the problems paying with Northern Irish banknotes in England, I was very amused to see a bank in Germany specifically welcoming them! Sadly I had no NI notes on me at the time

Certainly German banks used to advertise less favourable rates for Scottish notes - presumably because, like English banks they couldn’t actually issue them.

 

[zero]

On the opposite side try using a Faroe Islands banknote in Mainland Denmark and nobody will accept it at all.... Although in the town of Seythisfjorthur (the Icelandic ferry port for the Faroe Islands ferry) i was pleasantly surprised to see that the one currency exchange there had a sign (in four languages) saying they accept both Danish and Faroese banknotes and offer the same rate for both.

Before covid, you could walk into any Danske Bank branch in Denmark, or the National Bank in Copenhagen and they would instantly swap Faroese notes (including outdated notes) to new Danish notes. You did not need to have an account or book an appointment. I did this several times between 2016-2019.

However Danske Bank now requires an account to do a swap, or they will charge you a 5% commission to exchange Faroese notes to euros. If you want Danish cash you have to pay the commission again to exchange back from euros. The National Bank no longer has a public-facing counter.

The bureau de change in Seythisfjorthur that you mentioned appears to be the only "real" way to exchange Faroese notes outside their home. (I don't count selling them to a numismatic dealer for more than face value, as I did.)