London Boundary Zone 6 - Apsley - routing query

[Peter Mugridge]

At some point soon my wife and I will be walking the Grand Union Canal towpath from Watford to Apsley.

We normally do walks like this which are just outside the zones with Travelcards + BZ6 extensions as that gives us a lot more flexibilty within London after the walk should we have time to do anything else instead of going straight home. However, this time our route would involve two separate railways which are not directly linked.

Is a Boundary Zone 6 to Apsley return ticket valid via Watford ( Metropolitan ) as this station is much closer to the canal than Watford Junction is? Or are these tickets only valid on direct through routes?

 

[Watershed]

At some point soon my wife and I will be walking the Grand Union Canal towpath from Watford to Apsley.

We normally do walks like this which are just outside the zones with Travelcards + BZ6 extensions as that gives us a lot more flexibilty within London after the walk should we have time to do anything else instead of going straight home. However, this time our route would involve two separate railways which are not directly linked.

Is a Boundary Zone 6 to Apsley return ticket valid via Watford ( Metropolitan ) as this station is much closer to the canal than Watford Junction is? Or are these tickets only valid on direct through routes?

Unfortunately this ticket would not be valid for travel via Watford (Met) station, for two reasons.

Firstly, your ticket is only valid on National Rail services - unless you are travelling on a route where there is interavailability. Obviously travel via Watford (Met) involves using the Underground, and there is no interavailability which would cover this.

Secondly, there is no link defined between Watford (Met) and the WCML in the rail industry data. Therefore, although Watford Junction or High Street are well within walking distance, travelling via Watford (Met) not considered a valid route from the boundary of zone 6 to Apsley.

What you could do is to travel on the Overground to/from Watford High Street if that helps.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where exactly in Watford would perhaps be the best place to join the Grand Union Canal towpath (without too much road walking) before heading off along it in the general direction of Apsley?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Where exactly in Watford would perhaps be the best place to join the Grand Union Canal towpath (without too much road walking) before heading off along it in the general direction of Apsley?

It's literally just down the road from Watford ( Met )...

What you could do is to travel on the Overground to/from Watford High Street if that helps.

Might as well walk from Watford Junction if I'm doing that - it's about the same distance. Problem is it's already a 7 mile stretch of canal and that's close to out normal 8 mile maximum range...

...so what's the cheapest way of getting to Watford Met in conjunction with a paper Travelcard? We don't hold any smartcards of any description.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Some sort of extension ticket from the Zone 6 LU boundary station (Moor Park) to Watford Met. Think the pay-as-you-go (contactless) fare would be around £1.90 single. Presume you'd need to alight and reboard at Moor Park to first touch in there?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Some sort of extension ticket from the Zone 6 LU boundary station (Moor Park) to Watford Met. Think the pay-as-you-go (contactless) fare would be around £1.90 single. Presume you'd need to alight and reboard at Moor Park to first touch in there?

Such tickets do indeed exist but, in line with TfL fare policy, they're £7.00 Single when issued as a traditional ticket. The Pay As You Go fare (Contactless or Oyster as it's within Zones 1-9) is £1.90 Single Off-Peak or £2.00 Peak.

 

[yorkie]

If you already hold Travelcards, then simply use PAYG to get from Watford to Moor Park (you'll need to step back a train at Moor Park if you do that).

Alternatively, you may want to price up the possibility of getting a Travelcard from somewhere that includes validity up to Zone 9, e.g. Watford Jn to London Zones 1-6 ODT (AAA Zones 7-9); you'll also need another ticket from Watford Jn to Apsley.

If you are travelling from Epsom, the Zone 9 validity at Epsom isn't publicised, however the tickets should work the barriers and be accepted; see:

Can a zone 1-9 Travelcard be used at Epsom?

As title. Epsom is in unpublished zone 9. Can I use a zone 1-9 day Travelcard to transfer at Epsom unlimited times?

www.railforums.co.uk

Yes. The reason Epsom isn't talked about as being in zone 9 is that the price of an Epsom to zones 1-6 period travelcard is significantly less than the price of the equivalent zones 1-9 travelcard. However, Epsom is in zone 9 and any travelcard including zone 9 is valid there.

I've not priced this up, but the Z7-9 option is almost certainly going to be more expensive, however it does give you the advantage that you don't have to "step back" at Moor Park.

Some people may find the extended validity useful for other reasons too.

 

[MikeWh]

I've not priced this up, but the Z7-9 option is almost certainly going to be more expensive

The off-peak variety is £1.20 more per adult, or 80p more with a railcard. If no railcard is held then there is the option of using contactless PAYG at Apsley. However, the fare finder produces some confusing alternative routes, one where the peak single is cheaper than default while the off-peak single is more expensive. An alternative approach might be to use PAYG on a railcard discounted Oyster card as far as Watford Junction (possibly on a faster train?) and change to a paper single for the Watford Junction to Apsley bit. There are validators in the subway at Watford Junction, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be to get the same train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

An alternative approach might be to use PAYG on a railcard discounted Oyster card as far as Watford Junction (possibly on a faster train?) and change to a paper single for the Watford Junction to Apsley bit. There are validators in the subway at Watford Junction, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be to get the same train.

Aren't the OP and his wife walking from Watford to Apsley?

 

[yorkie]

Aren't the OP and his wife walking from Watford to Apsley?

It makes no material difference, as the advice would be the same in reverse.

 

[sqwizz]

Might as well walk from Watford Junction if I'm doing that - it's about the same distance. Problem is it's already a 7 mile stretch of canal and that's close to out normal 8 mile maximum range

I've done the Grand Union starting at Watford Junction too. It's only 0.5 km (1/3 mile) extra really, by the time you join up to the same bridge. (Cassiobury Park itself is a nice bit to walk through.)

[image from google maps distance measure tool]

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you everyone.

PAYG is a non-starter unfortunately; I have a ( voluntary ) block on contactless on my debit card.

@yorkie - do you know the ticket code to get the Z9 Travelcard from Epsom? They've several times before refused to issue one saying they just can't do them...

 

[MikeWh]

A ticket from Amersham or Brentwood to London zones 1-6 will be printed with route "AAA LNDN ZONES 7-9".

 

[Railguy1]

Is travelling from Rickmansworth to Kings Langley better instead? The RailUK website offers me a ticket for £4.30 when using my freedom pass and a single used in the evening.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is travelling from Rickmansworth to Kings Langley better instead? The RailUK website offers me a ticket for £4.30 when using my freedom pass and a single used in the evening.

Err... Not really because we've already walked the section north of Apsley.

We have three remaining sections to cover...

Watford to Apsley

Denham to Watford

West Drayton to Denham

 

[yorkie]

@yorkie - do you know the ticket code to get the Z9 Travelcard from Epsom? They've several times before refused to issue one saying they just can't do them...

The origin would be WFJ and the destination will simply be 0035 (London Zones 1-6), as linked to above (post #7).

I'd recommend buying online from the forum's ticketing site, or in advance from the ticket office. The TVMs might have a "tickets from another stations" option.

I wouldn't get one for immediate travel from the ticket office, as they might erroneously claim it's not valid from Epsom, and it's best not to get into an argument.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The origin would be WFJ and the destination will simply be 0035 (London Zones 1-6), as linked to above (post #7).

I'd recommend buying online from the forum's ticketing site, or in advance from the ticket office. The TVMs might have a "tickets from another stations" option.

I wouldn't get one for immediate travel from the ticket office, as they might erroneously claim it's not valid from Epsom, and it's best not to get into an argument.

Thank you; I'll look into it when I know when we'll be doing the walk.

 

[MikeWh]

The origin would be WFJ and the destination will simply be 0035 (London Zones 1-6), as linked to above (post #7).

You could do that, but the Watford Junction travelcard is more expensive than the zone 1-9 travelcard. It depends what the diference is between Apsley to Watford Junction and Apsley to Watford High Street.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Err... Not really because we've already walked the section north of Apsley.

We have three remaining sections to cover...

Watford to Apsley

Denham to Watford

West Drayton to Denham

You might want to consider starting/finishing the Denham legs instead at Harefield (Widewater Lock on Moorhall Road) to even out those legs, avoid about a mile of non-canal walk to/from the nearest bus route or Denham station (though Denham village is worth seeing) and to simplify ticketing as Denham station is outside the Zones. Travelcards are valid on TfL 331 bus to/from Uxbridge or Northwood for Met line connections which stops right by the lock, with the River Garden pub adjacent for pre/post-walk loo/refreshments. Have fun; I did Uxbridge all the way to Braunston (you may have spotted the milestones) as a start-of-retirement adventure.

 

[Haywain]

Might as well walk from Watford Junction if I'm doing that - it's about the same distance.

Get a bus (route W30) from Watford Junction to Rickmansworth Road - it saves most of the walk and simplifies the train fares. And, being a TfL bus route, it will be covered by your Travelcard.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Get a bus (route W30) from Watford Junction to Rickmansworth Road- it saves most of the walk and simplifies the train fares. And, being a TfL bus route, it will be covered by your Travelcard.

The W30 isn't a TfL route, alas. TfL routes to Watford Junction are the 142 (Brent Cross - Edgware - Stanmore - Bushey - Watford Junction) and 258 (South Harrow - Harrow & Wealdstone - Bushey - Watford Junction.)

 

[Haywain]

The W30 isn't a TfL route, alas. TfL routes to Watford Junction are the 142 (Brent Cross - Edgware - Stanmore - Bushey - Watford Junction) and 258 (South Harrow - Harrow & Wealdstone - Bushey - Watford Junction.)

Noted, and post edited.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You might want to consider starting/finishing the Denham legs instead at Harefield (Widewater Lock on Moorhall Road) to even out those legs, avoid about a mile of non-canal walk to/from the nearest bus route or Denham station (though Denham village is worth seeing) and to simplify ticketing as Denham station is outside the Zones. Travelcards are valid on TfL 331 bus to/from Uxbridge or Northwood for Met line connections which stops right by the lock, with the River Garden pub adjacent for pre/post-walk loo/refreshments. Have fun; I did Uxbridge all the way to Braunston (you may have spotted the milestones) as a start-of-retirement adventure.

I'm measuring our sectors to canal bridge 180 at Harefield which is Moorhall Road - but you're right, it's a mile from there to Denham station... however, I measured Watford to bridge 180 as being 6.75 miles ( using google Maps ) so the mile to the stations is not an issue.

A single between West Rusilip and Denham is only £2.30, so a lot less of an issue as trying to work out the ticketing for the Watford to Apsley section. I'm now thinking the extra walk from Watford Junction to the canal with a BZ6 to Apsley ( £5.35 return plus the £12.30 for the Travelcards from Epsom ) is probably our best option?

Yes, I have seen the Braunston mileposts - I doubt we'll fill in all the gaps to it, though!!

 

[MikeWh]

I'm now thinking the extra walk from Watford Junction to the canal with a BZ6 to Apsley ( £5.35 return plus the £12.30 for the Travelcards from Epsom ) is probably our best option?

Peter,

The Zones 1-9 off-peak day travelcard at £11.80 will (so I was told by GTR) operate the gates at Epsom. An Apsley to Bushey single is £2.45 giving you a total of £14.25.

Alternatively, using your discounted Oystercard off-peak gives you the following:
Epsom to Watford (Met) £5.50
Watford Junction to Epsom via Southern to Clapham Junction then Epsom £2.90
or Watford Junction to Epsom including Underground £6.25

So, with an Apsley to Watford Junction single at £2.10 you could do the day for £10.50 if you can time the return right to get the Southern service (or £13.85 with a step back via Euston).

This page https://tfl.gov.uk/bus/stop/910GEPSM/epsom-rail-station clearly states that Epsom is in zone 9 in the unlikely event that you encounter trouble. I know it's a bus page, but buses are zoneless so the zone information is for the rail station.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Alternatively, using your discounted Oystercard

Thank you, but... I don't have an Oyster card though... ( I spend so much time within the barrier lines I'd be running up against journey time limits all the time ).

Never realised the Z9 Travelcard was actually cheaper from Epsom ( with the railcard ) than the Z6 version...!!!

 

[yorkie]

Never realised the Z9 Travelcard was actually cheaper from Epsom ( with the railcard ) than the Z6 version...!!!

There is no concept of "Z9" and "Z6" versions as such.

All outboundary Travelcards are issued to London Zones 1-6 (0035)

Epsom to Zones 1-6 is routed "Any Permitted" so does not have any extended validity in Zones 7-9.

Watford Jn/Watford High St/Bushey/Amersham etc. to Zones 1-6 is routed "AAA Zones 7-9", so does have this extended validity.

 

[pelli]

This page https://tfl.gov.uk/bus/stop/910GEPSM/epsom-rail-station clearly states that Epsom is in zone 9 in the unlikely event that you encounter trouble. I know it's a bus page, but buses are zoneless so the zone information is for the rail station.

Replacing the "bus" in the URL with "national-rail" yields a train page:
https://tfl.gov.uk/national-rail/stop/910GEPSM/epsom-rail-station



I stumbled upon this by clicking "Map View", then clicking the station on the map which brings up the two "lines at this station" and clicking one of them. (Seemingly, for other stations, National Rail "lines at this station" can not be found by clicking the station on the map if the station has any Underground, Overground, DLR or Elizabeth Line service, but the page still exists and can be accessed by modifying the URL manually to "national-rail". Also, it seems that for stations deemed to be outside London, which includes e.g. Potters Bar, Radlett, Broxbourne, Ockendon, Earlswood (Surrey) and Gatwick Airport but also Birmingham New Street, Manchester Piccadilly, Altnabreac and British Steel Redcar, although the station cannot be found when searching on the "Stations, Stops & Piers" page, it does show up when searching on the map page, and it has a "status" instead of "lines at this station" box.)

 

[MikeWh]

Replacing the "bus" in the URL with "national-rail" yields a train page:
https://tfl.gov.uk/national-rail/stop/910GEPSM/epsom-rail-station

View attachment 178825

I stumbled upon this by clicking "Map View", then clicking the station on the map which brings up the two "lines at this station" and clicking one of them. (Seemingly, for other stations, National Rail "lines at this station" can not be found by clicking the station on the map if the station has any Underground, Overground, DLR or Elizabeth Line service, but the page still exists and can be accessed by modifying the URL manually to "national-rail". Also, it seems that for stations deemed to be outside London, which includes e.g. Potters Bar, Radlett, Broxbourne, Ockendon, Earlswood (Surrey) and Gatwick Airport but also Birmingham New Street, Manchester Piccadilly, Altnabreac and British Steel Redcar, although the station cannot be found when searching on the "Stations, Stops & Piers" page, it does show up when searching on the map page, and it has a "status" instead of "lines at this station" box.)

Good spot, thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2025 ==

Thank you, but... I don't have an Oyster card though

Ooops.

Watford Jn to Zones 1-6 is routed "AAA Zones 7-9"m so does have this extended validity.

Why do you keep quoting Watford Junction, @yorkie. It costs more than a zone 1-9 travelcard because Watford Junction is beyond zone 9.

To guarantee getting just a zone 1-9 travelcard use either Amersham or Brentwood. Zone 7 or 8 stations also work for the day versions, but will give restricted results for weekly and above seasons.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Zones 1-9 off-peak day travelcard at £11.80 will (so I was told by GTR) operate the gates at Epsom.

I had no problems getting one from the ticket office this morning, but it didn't work the barriers - error code 9 - but was let through without question by showing the ticket.

 

[MikeWh]

I had no problems getting one from the ticket office this morning, but it didn't work the barriers - error code 9 - but was let through without question by showing the ticket.

Good to know, thanks.