GWR Ticket Office Commission

[Isla]

Are staff at ticket offices at GWR paid commission based on sales they make?

I have never seen such aggressive upselling.

Firstly, I have had a few instances where staff try to convince me that tickets cost substantially more than they do, then get abusive when they're caught out and I buy one from a machine at the correct price instead.

I often split tickets to save money and staff at GWR spend over a minute trying to convince me to not do this, even to such extremes as the ticket costing £45 when split and £90 when it isn't, as the more expensive ticket offers greater flexibility and it's 'definitely worth paying twice as much to arrive ten minutes earlier'.

A month back they lied to my wife that it would be cheaper to buy two singles than a period return and unfortunately she believed them.

Today I have had a woman trying to convince me that I should buy a period return, rather than a day return, as this offers greater flexibility should I change my mind and decide to stay overnight at the last minute. As usual, she didn't just drop this when I politely declined and went on for over a minute attempting to convince me to spend more money.

I haven't experienced this with any other rail company and the only explanation I can think of for such aggressive upselling is that these guys are being paid commission.

 

[FGW_DID]

Are staff at ticket offices at GWR paid commission based on sales they make?

No they don’t get any commission.

Ticket Examiners do and not 100% sure but possibly the Guards (Conductors / Train Managers) do as well.

Where was this if you don’t mind saying?

 

[lordbusiness]

Hmmmmm,

There is upsellng and then there is upselling

If it's happening at the same ticket office then maybe a communication to GWR might be worth it.

There's a big difference between trying to get a customer to buy a croissant with their coffee to selling them something that will cost them more and not what they need.

 

[The exile]

Are staff at ticket offices at GWR paid commission based on sales they make?

I have never seen such aggressive upselling.

Firstly, I have had a few instances where staff try to convince me that tickets cost substantially more than they do, then get abusive when they're caught out and I buy one from a machine at the correct price instead.

I often split tickets to save money and staff at GWR spend over a minute trying to convince me to not do this, even to such extremes as the ticket costing £45 when split and £90 when it isn't, as the more expensive ticket offers greater flexibility and it's 'definitely worth paying twice as much to arrive ten minutes earlier'.

A month back they lied to my wife that it would be cheaper to buy two singles than a period return and unfortunately she believed them.

Today I have had a woman trying to convince me that I should buy a period return, rather than a day return, as this offers greater flexibility should I change my mind and decide to stay overnight at the last minute. As usual, she didn't just drop this when I politely declined and went on for over a minute attempting to convince me to spend more money.

I haven't experienced this with any other rail company and the only explanation I can think of for such aggressive upselling is that these guys are being paid commission.

Either you're using a GWR ticket office I've never been to or you're extremely unlucky - the ones I use are staffed by knowledgeable and helpful people.

 

[WAB]

The GWR ticket offices I’ve been to have been keen to sell PlusBus or a first class upgrade, but nothing like what you have described. I definitely think your experiences are complaint-worthy.

 

[kje7812]

Are staff at ticket offices at GWR paid commission based on sales they make?

I have never seen such aggressive upselling.

Firstly, I have had a few instances where staff try to convince me that tickets cost substantially more than they do, then get abusive when they're caught out and I buy one from a machine at the correct price instead.

I often split tickets to save money and staff at GWR spend over a minute trying to convince me to not do this, even to such extremes as the ticket costing £45 when split and £90 when it isn't, as the more expensive ticket offers greater flexibility and it's 'definitely worth paying twice as much to arrive ten minutes earlier'.

A month back they lied to my wife that it would be cheaper to buy two singles than a period return and unfortunately she believed them.

Today I have had a woman trying to convince me that I should buy a period return, rather than a day return, as this offers greater flexibility should I change my mind and decide to stay overnight at the last minute. As usual, she didn't just drop this when I politely declined and went on for over a minute attempting to convince me to spend more money.

I haven't experienced this with any other rail company and the only explanation I can think of for such aggressive upselling is that these guys are being paid commission.

Never had that and in fact the one I use the most (Worcestershire Parkway) once pointed out a favourable ticket split to me.

 

[sh24]

I've used a couple of GWR ticket offices recently and they were super helpful and friendly. This definitely sounds complaint worthy as well outside the normal experience.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Whilst I don't work in a Ticket Office for GWR, I've never been asked by my superiors at my work place to try to upsell certain products or questioned on tickets I have sold. I'd be surprised if this was the case at any UK TOC.
I frequently sell random combinations of tickets for passengers, both for walk up fares and Advance tickets if I think I can save people money. After all many websites automatically do this.

 

[Watershed]

It sounds like there may be an issue with the staff at the ticket office you frequent. Perhaps there is a manager or more senior member of staff who is encouraging people to "upsell".

Ticket office staff don't get commission on their sales, and I don't think they're subject to any selling targets/KPIs either. Realistically, how could they be - given that footfall is the largest determinant of ticket sales, yet it's entirely outside their control?

I would suggest making a complaint to GWR setting out these experiences. I wouldn't expect a particularly helpful response, as they (like most TOCs) have customer service staff who are directed to "resolve" complaints with platitudes rather than actually addressing the problem. However, it's the first step towards taking the matter up further - for example with the Rail Ombudsman, Transport Focus or your MP - so you do have to give them an opportunity to respond.

 

[Parallel]

My local ticket office is a GWR one. They've always sold what I've asked for. Probably worth a complaint.

 

[Isla]

To follow-up:

This has happened at multiple GWR stations and only ever happens at GWR stations, which is why I thought this was a GWR thing.

I have made complaints in the past, but all you get back is an explanation that they can't tell you the outcome. The exact same staff continue doing the same things, so I suspect that nothing is done.

 

[Wychwood93]

In BR days, within the NSE area, you had commission of 50p/£1 (?) per Network card sold. I was once told off for trying too hard! There was, unsurprisingly, some element of competition between staff members. Naturally there was no commission when you were in the Travel Centre (remember that?) sorting out and booking a family holiday to the south of France with couchettes/sleepers etc. In pre-Eurostar days there would ferries as well. Happy days!

 

[AlterEgo]

To follow-up:

This has happened at multiple GWR stations and only ever happens at GWR stations, which is why I thought this was a GWR thing.

I have made complaints in the past, but all you get back is an explanation that they can't tell you the outcome. The exact same staff continue doing the same things, so I suspect that nothing is done.

I can’t recall anyone else ever having this experience reported on here, but you may want to complain about this. Or, better still, stop using ticket offices entirely!

 

[Watershed]

To follow-up:

This has happened at multiple GWR stations and only ever happens at GWR stations, which is why I thought this was a GWR thing.

I have made complaints in the past, but all you get back is an explanation that they can't tell you the outcome. The exact same staff continue doing the same things, so I suspect that nothing is done.

If it's continuing to happen despite multiple complaints, it's time to start escalating things to Transport Focus (or London TravelWatch if it's happening in the London & South east area). Alternatively you could also consider getting your MP involved.

 

[canary fan]

To follow-up:

This has happened at multiple GWR stations and only ever happens at GWR stations, which is why I thought this was a GWR thing.

I have made complaints in the past, but all you get back is an explanation that they can't tell you the outcome. The exact same staff continue doing the same things, so I suspect that nothing is done.

You have said multiple GWR ticket offices, which I find very surprising. The fact that you say the exact same staff doing the same things, implies that you know which ticket office (s) it is, so why the reluctance to name them?

 

[voyagerdude220]

You have said multiple GWR ticket offices, which I find very surprising. The fact that you say the exact same staff doing the same things, implies that you know which ticket office (s) it is, so why the reluctance to name them?

I agree with you. Particularly if the staff have allegedly deliberately pressurised people into not buying perfectly valid split tickets, in order to persuade them to unnescarily spend more money. That's not a genuine error in my opinion, that's deliberate bad practice.

 

[djox]

Would it be a problem if ticket staff were on commission?
For the op if you have a problem with GWR staff use the machine like you have done already or a split ticket website because you seem to have already researched how much the tickets will be and seem to know what you want.
Also, please don't complain to your MP about ticket office staff, this is very "Karen" behaviour. If you don't like the advice polietly decline and go to another person or use a machine. I'm sure the more complains to MPs will only speed up the closure of ticket offices.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Would it be a problem if ticket staff were on commission?
For the op if you have a problem with GWR staff use the machine like you have done already or a split ticket website because you seem to have already researched how much the tickets will be and seem to know what you want.
Also, please don't complain to your MP about ticket office staff, this is very "Karen" behaviour. If you don't like the advice polietly decline and go to another person or use a machine. I'm sure the more complains to MPs will only speed up the closure of ticket offices.

If the Ticket Office staff are indeed intentionally trying to overcharge passengers, I don't think there are any grounds to defend them and that's coming from a member of Ticket Office staff myself.

 

[WirralLine]

Whilst I don't work in a Ticket Office for GWR, I've never been asked by my superiors at my work place to try to upsell certain products or questioned on tickets I have sold. I'd be surprised if this was the case at any UK TOC.
I frequently sell random combinations of tickets for passengers, both for walk up fares and Advance tickets if I think I can save people money. After all many websites automatically do this.

I don't work in a ticket office (or for GWR) but do sell tickets. We are told to upsell to a point if it may be of benefit to the customer. Eg they ask for a single to X which is £10, but a return is £11, ask if they'd like a return as its only an extra £1. Quite often people take up the offer as they thought a return was the same price as 2 singles and would buy a separate single for the return!

It would be interesting to know the location(s) of these offices, and definitely worth a complaint.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I don't work in a ticket office (or for GWR) but do sell tickets. We are told to upsell to a point if it may be of benefit to the customer. Eg they ask for a single to X which is £10, but a return is £11, ask if they'd like a return as its only an extra £1. Quite often people take up the offer as they thought a return was the same price as 2 singles and would buy a separate single for the return!

It would be interesting to know the location(s) of these offices, and definitely worth a complaint.

I agree and your scenario in my opinion is very good customer service. Like you said yourself, people might not know that a return is only a little more than the single.

I'm embarrassed to be in the same job role as the people the OP is referring to. Ironically today I took several minutes to re route a customer travelling to London because of engineering work on the West Coast. Not only did it avoid him having to get a rail replacement bus, I offered him a massive saving by pointing out if he didn't mind leaving at 0600 instead of mid morning, the split tickets I sold him were £30 instead of £80+ later in the day.

 

[nick291]

Never had a problem at my local, more because I've brought a ticket in advance or use the TVM's. If I only have cash then I go to the ticket office. Only questions that get asked are "are you returning today?" "Do you have a railcard?" Then I pay, get my ticket issued and done. Not heard of anyone trying to upsell. Which stations are these?

 

[Watershed]

Would it be a problem if ticket staff were on commission?

I think the implication is that the staff would then have greater motivation for selling the more expensive tickets.

For the op if you have a problem with GWR staff use the machine like you have done already or a split ticket website because you seem to have already researched how much the tickets will be and seem to know what you want.

That may be a pragmatic option but the OP should not need to resort to those options. What is the point of having ticket offices if people should avoid them for more complex queries?

In any event, the OP may well have a good reason for wanting to use the ticket offices. In some cases it would be the fastest way of buying the tickets they want, especially if they're after an unusual combination of tickets that split ticket websites might not readily suggest.

Also, please don't complain to your MP about ticket office staff, this is very "Karen" behaviour.

Yawn. There is nothing entitled about expecting to be sold an appropriate ticket rather than getting overcharged.

The OP wouldn't be complaining to their MP about one individual incident, but about the series of incidents which GWR have apparently done nothing to address despite raising multiple complaints. That seems an entirely legitimate set of circumstances under which to escalate the matter to them, bearing in mind GWR receive a substantial government subsidy.

If you don't like the advice polietly decline and go to another person or use a machine.

"Don't like" being strongarmed into buying an inappropriate ticket? I wonder why that could be... Is there any evidence the OP isn't being polite and doing as you say, in which case your advice is entirely superfluous?

I'm sure the more complains to MPs will only speed up the closure of ticket offices.

And so we come to your true motivation for your post - keeping people employed even if they are utterly unsuited to the role.

Fortunately for your cause, this is the rail industry we are talking about, not a rational commercially-run operation. Ticket office closures will be determined by the scale of the inevitable financial cutbacks imposed by the Treasury/DfT over coming years, not the actions of individual members of staff.

You'd achieve a lot more by pushing your union to get TOCs to provide proper training, and to appropriately manage those who aren't suited to working in the role. But of course it's easier to tell passengers with legitimate complaints to get lost.

 

[father_jack]

All I can say on this that is the railway Internal Railway Knowledgebase (IKB) still states this. (Can't provide actual link after previous discussions with moderators)-

IKB said-

Combination of Tickets​

The Fares Finder has fares for most through journeys. Tickets should always be sold for the throughout journey required unless a customer specially requests more than one ticket for the journey. In such cases the combination of tickets should cover the entire journey being made. The National Rail Conditions of Travel specify circumstances when tickets may be used in combination (Conditions 14.1 - 14.4).

Consider the scenario in a ticket office-

Pax-"Single to D please".
Clerk- "Yes, off peak single £56.20, would you like an off peak month return after 0930 on weekdays for a pound more ?"
Pax- "You're taking the mick, splitsave on trainline is £21.50....".

Clerk knows full well if it you buy A-B, B-C and C-D it is exactly that amount. And due to the unclear guidance from ticketing managers the clerk can't offer this. So another nail goes in the coffin of the ticket office when the clerk has to say "well buy it on your phone then". "BUT I ONLY HAVE CASH" says the passenger.......

I remember hearing a story where ticket office staff were told the TOC setting the fare or operating the train could claim "deprivation of revenue" if split tickets were sold at another TOCs ticket office.

But it's alright for online sales channels to split and sometimes not explain they're splitting to the passenger ?

 

[Snow1964]

Would it be a problem if ticket staff were on commission?

If they got a flat rate per transaction no
If they get a percentage of sales value then yes.

Actually first one could be a problem if it led to something like leaving a TVM out of service due to empty ticket roll so more had to use ticket window (where there is single TVM) and only filling it at end of shift. Although not sure how many stations have part time ticket office and single TVM, guessing about 150 nationally

 

[father_jack]

Actually first one could be a problem if it led to something like leaving a TVM out of service due to empty ticket roll so more had to use ticket window (where there is single TVM) and only filling it at end of shift. Although not sure how many stations have part time ticket office and single TVM, guessing about 150 nationally

There was a "desperate for commission" guard who got called in once for tea and no biscuits. He'd had signs printed off to stick on the TVM screens "OUT OF SERVICE, APPROACH GUARD ON TRAIN IMMEDIATELY". He'd been up and down the same line all day, put sign on on first train and removed them on the last of his diagram.

 

[yorkie]

Are staff at ticket offices at GWR paid commission based on sales they make?

I have never seen such aggressive upselling.

Firstly, I have had a few instances where staff try to convince me that tickets cost substantially more than they do, then get abusive when they're caught out and I buy one from a machine at the correct price instead.

Do you have any examples of this? Which ticket office(s) have done this, what journeys are you referring to, and what tickets were going to be upsold?

I often split tickets to save money and staff at GWR spend over a minute trying to convince me to not do this, even to such extremes as the ticket costing £45 when split and £90 when it isn't, as the more expensive ticket offers greater flexibility and it's 'definitely worth paying twice as much to arrive ten minutes earlier'.

Ticket office staff are obliged to sell the tickets you ask for, so if you ask them for a combination, then they should sell it.

There may be some exception, if there is more to this than meets the eye; without details of your request, it is difficult to comment.

A month back they lied to my wife that it would be cheaper to buy two singles than a period return and unfortunately she believed them.

Again, we'd need details of this.

Today I have had a woman trying to convince me that I should buy a period return, rather than a day return, as this offers greater flexibility should I change my mind and decide to stay overnight at the last minute. As usual, she didn't just drop this when I politely declined and went on for over a minute attempting to convince me to spend more money.

What journey(s) are affected by this?

I haven't experienced this with any other rail company and the only explanation I can think of for such aggressive upselling is that these guys are being paid commission.

I'd be surprised if any ticket office staff were paid commission; it's far common for on-board staff to be paid commission.

 

[RJ]

There really isn’t any incentive to upsell in this manner. The furthest it goes is getting £0.50 commission for selling Network Railcards. I haven’t bothered claiming that for many years from my rural perch but a bit further out on the network, virtually every customer has one, so it’s probably a noticeable bump to income!

As for GWR, I’ve pretty much had the opposite. I had to give up trying to buy a ticket from Paddington. I just wanted a return from Acton Mainline to East Croydon. They were adamant I should have bought it from Acton Mainline, then insisted Priv was not valid for point to point journeys involving Cross London Travel, then they couldn’t sell tickets for travel on the Elizabeth Line and ended up offering a U Zones ticket that’s not valid with the Priv I have. I thanked them for their time and walked away without getting a ticket. Ever since then I make sure I carry a credit card so I can buy online and collect from TVM.

 

[Haywain]

Ticket office staff are obliged to sell the tickets you ask for, so if you ask them for a combination, then they should sell it.

A specific combination - you can't expect them to know what split you want.

 

[voyagerdude220]

A specific combination - you can't expect them to know what split you want.

That always annoys me at work- when someone tells me they've seen it cheaper online, show me the split ticket price, but have no idea what it's offering them and wonder why I can't match the price offered online.

 

[Haywain]

That always annoys me at work- when someone tells me they've seen it cheaper online, show me the split ticket price, but have no idea what it's offering them and wonder why I can't match the price offered online.

I encountered it years ago when a chap came into the office I was working at and asked for a ticket, and then bridled at the price because it had cost rather less the week before. Unfortunately, he had no idea what combination he had been sold so had to pay the through price.