What should I expect? Unknowingly used an expired rail card for 3 months.

[phunly]

Hi,
I understand posts like these are flooding the forum but I'm a little bit stressed out and would hope someone could offer me some clarity.

Today I was commuting into the office when I got my ticket checked, which I thought was no problem I had my ticket and a 16-25 rail card on the trianline app. When my ticket was checked they ask to see my rail card at which point it became clear it expired in January.

I'll save you the rant about how it's stupid that the trainline app not only lets me apply a rail card discount despite having my expired rail card downloaded or that it applies the discount automatically and get straight to the point. I also understand the responsibility is on myself the check my rail card but I didn't get a warning that it had expired and it is easy to lose track of these things.
From browsing this forum a bit I think I understand the next steps and how best handle this but I'm left with a few uncertainties. To start I'll list the important details:

Since my card expired I have taken 11-12 journeys (unsure as to how many exactly as I renewed my card right after noticing and can't see how to tell when my old one expired). The anytime full price of these tickets combined assuming it was 12 journeys is ~£235.
All but 1 of these journeys where southwestern returns from Waterloo to leatherhead, with the 12th being I believe GWR.
Right after they took down all my details (including my eye colour!) I renewed my rail card as the office suggested this would benefit my case and I needed it for my journey home (which is cancelled...)
After this they handed me what looked like a receipt which I had to sign.

If possible could some kind stranger help bring me some clarity on the following:

-the ticket officer said I could expect a letter in 2-3 weeks after which I could say my side. But looking around this could take up to 6 months!! Does anyone have information on what the usual wait period is?

-secondly I've seen that they can charge me the full cost of all tickets bought using this rail card plus an admin fee. But on some posts I've seen that if you can prove it was a genuine mistake I may just need to pay the difference in fairs for the discount.
How likely am I to be able to persuade them to let me off with just the difference in price?
How much can I expect the admin fee to be?

-I've also seen they may just give me the standard penalty fair of £100 (£50 if I pay within 21 days) plus the full cost of the single ticket that was checked.
Is this true and how likely is this?


Sorry for the wall of text but any help in understanding what I can expect, especially how much I can expect to pay will do wanders to helping putting my mind at ease. If you have any tips or information I might not of seen please let me know.
The thought of paying up to £400 for forgetting to renew at £35 rail card is really giving me anxiety. All I can think is I'm so thankful I rarely go into the office as a remote worker otherwise I'd be paying potentially £1000's.


Finally once I receive the letter I'll post my draft response here for input as I've seen that is a wise decision. If anyone could help me with the wording of this I'd be forever grateful.

Thank you so much!

 

[Elecman]

You won’t get the standard penalty Fare £100 + cost of ticket as that has to bu issued at the time and cannot be issued retrospectively.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,
I understand posts like these are flooding the forum but I'm a little bit stressed out and would hope someone could offer me some clarity.

Today I was commuting into the office when I got my ticket checked, which I thought was no problem I had my ticket and a 16-25 rail card on the trianline app. When my ticket was checked they ask to see my rail card at which point it became clear it expired in January.

I'll save you the rant about how it's stupid that the trainline app not only lets me apply a rail card discount despite having my expired rail card downloaded or that it applies the discount automatically and get straight to the point. I also understand the responsibility is on myself the check my rail card but I didn't get a warning that it had expired and it is easy to lose track of these things.
From browsing this forum a bit I think I understand the next steps and how best handle this but I'm left with a few uncertainties. To start I'll list the important details:

Since my card expired I have taken 11-12 journeys (unsure as to how many exactly as I renewed my card right after noticing and can't see how to tell when my old one expired). The anytime full price of these tickets combined assuming it was 12 journeys is ~£235.
All but 1 of these journeys where southwestern returns from Waterloo to leatherhead, with the 12th being I believe GWR.
Right after they took down all my details (including my eye colour!) I renewed my rail card as the office suggested this would benefit my case and I needed it for my journey home (which is cancelled...)
After this they handed me what looked like a receipt which I had to sign.

If possible could some kind stranger help bring me some clarity on the following:

-the ticket officer said I could expect a letter in 2-3 weeks after which I could say my side. But looking around this could take up to 6 months!! Does anyone have information on what the usual wait period is?

-secondly I've seen that they can charge me the full cost of all tickets bought using this rail card plus an admin fee. But on some posts I've seen that if you can prove it was a genuine mistake I may just need to pay the difference in fairs for the discount.
How likely am I to be able to persuade them to let me off with just the difference in price?
How much can I expect the admin fee to be?

-I've also seen they may just give me the standard penalty fair of £100 (£50 if I pay within 21 days) plus the full cost of the single ticket that was checked.
Is this true and how likely is this?


Sorry for the wall of text but any help in understanding what I can expect, especially how much I can expect to pay will do wanders to helping putting my mind at ease. If you have any tips or information I might not of seen please let me know.
The thought of paying up to £400 for forgetting to renew at £35 rail card is really giving me anxiety. All I can think is I'm so thankful I rarely go into the office as a remote worker otherwise I'd be paying potentially £1000's.


Finally once I receive the letter I'll post my draft response here for input as I've seen that is a wise decision. If anyone could help me with the wording of this I'd be forever grateful.

Thank you so much!

You might expect to hear from them in maybe 4 to 6 weeks. Depending on how busy they are.

That will probably be by hard copy post so keep an eye out for letters but also check e mails and spam.

 

[minderbinder]

-secondly I've seen that they can charge me the full cost of all tickets bought using this rail card plus an admin fee. But on some posts I've seen that if you can prove it was a genuine mistake I may just need to pay the difference in fairs for the discount.
How likely am I to be able to persuade them to let me off with just the difference in price?
How much can I expect the admin fee to be?

The admin fee will likely be around £150.

Regarding the payment of full fares without discount, it would be helpful if you gave a little more information, especially which TOC you are dealing with. Some TOCs are more reasonable than others.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We see lots of cases like this on here. I'm going to assume you're dealing with SWR, they'll normally write an initial letter within a couple of months but what seems to hold them up in addition to their workload is waiting for information from Trainline about your ticket purchasing history.

When my ticket was checked they ask to see my rail card at which point it became clear it expired in January.

Legally speaking you've comitted a criminal offence. SWR are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to but they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

I'll save you the rant about how it's stupid that the trainline app not only lets me apply a rail card discount despite having my expired rail card downloaded or that it applies the discount automatically and get straight to the point.

This is a tricky one, we have discussed it to death in other threads. I would complain to Trainline about it but one of the problems is you can use any retailer you like to buy tickets. For example I have a railcard purchased through (and held in) the Trainsplit app but I regularly purchase tickets from LNER.

Also, did you enable notifications on your Trainline app. I don't know if Trainline do send expiry reminders but if you've not got notifications enabled then you won't get them.

Other railcard retailers are available. Trainsplit sell railcards and you can set it to auto-renew.

I renewed my rail card as the office suggested this would benefit my case and I needed it for my journey home (which is cancelled...)

Do make sure you claim delay repay (not a refund) if you are delayed.

-secondly I've seen that they can charge me the full cost of all tickets bought using this rail card plus an admin fee. But on some posts I've seen that if you can prove it was a genuine mistake I may just need to pay the difference in fairs for the discount.

SWR normally charge the full Anytime fare with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase.

How likely am I to be able to persuade them to let me off with just the difference in price?

I doubt they will offer the difference. It's a tricky one because if they allowed the difference to be paid no-one would ever buy a railcard. You'd chance it and just pay the difference if challenged.

How much can I expect the admin fee to be?

£150 seems to be the going rate for SWR.

-I've also seen they may just give me the standard penalty fair of £100 (£50 if I pay within 21 days) plus the full cost of the single ticket that was checked.
Is this true and how likely is this?

This won't happen as Penalty Fares have to be issued at the time. Penalty Fares are rarely issued for out of date railcards these days. Train companies tend to take details so they can conduct a back-office investigation to determine the number of times someone has travelled with an invalid railcard and factor this in to the settlement cost.

The thought of paying up to £400 for forgetting to renew at £35 rail card is really giving me anxiety.

It's frustrating, and I know it's easy to say, but try and put it to the back of your mind and get on with your life. Chalk it up to experience - yes it's embarrassing, frustrating and expensive but sometimes these things happen.

Finally once I receive the letter I'll post my draft response here for input as I've seen that is a wise decision. If anyone could help me with the wording of this I'd be forever grateful.

Forum members will be happy to proof read your reply. I suggest a short, concise reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

 

[furlong]

SWR normally charge the full Anytime fare with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase.

Though the legal basis for this appears nebulous.

I doubt they will offer the difference. It's a tricky one because if they allowed the difference to be paid no-one would ever buy a railcard. You'd chance it and just pay the difference if challenged.

Such a passenger would be risking a Penalty Fare or fine by a court after successful prosecution. I'd suggest the courts are unlikely to support a train company inventing its own system of non-contractual penalties or attempting to enrich itself out of a criminal act committed against it by seeking to recover more than its actual loss.

 

[Hadders]

Though the legal basis for this appears nebulous.

I have some sympathy for your view on this, but where people ask for our specific advice it's important that we tell them what is likely to happen in reality. There is always a danger that SWR could prosecute for the single offence where the OP was caught.

We have had a frecent discussion about whether out of court settlements should take into account the fare already paid and further discussion on this point should be made in that thread, rather than risk taking this thread off-topic.

Discussion ABout Whether Out of Court Settlements Should Take into Account the Fare Already Paid

Moderator Note - split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swr-%C2%A31489-fine-for-expired-railcard-%E2%80%93-seeking-advice.283103/ There needs to be some reform here. It seems that retailers are not under any obligation to retain records of expired railcards although some do. If TOCs...

www.railforums.co.uk

Such a passenger would be risking a Penalty Fare or fine by a court after successful prosecution. I'd suggest the courts are unlikely to support a train company inventing its own system of non-contractual penalties or attempting to enrich itself out of a criminal act committed against it by seeking to recover more than its actual loss.

It would be good to see this point tested in a court of law but in my view it's highly unlikely to happen. The vast majority of people who seek our assistance on here want their cases resolved by the most straightforward method possible, with minimum stress and impact on their lives. While we have seen cases where people are prepared for a proper fight (eg @KirkstallOne) we should set out the risks involved very clearly.

 

[phunly]

Hi guys, first of all I'd like to say a huge thank you. I'm blown away by the support not just in this thread but on this forum.

To add some the info I missed; yes as some of you guess it was SWR.

With this comes a follow up question, all but one of my fairs since the rail card expired are with SWR, does this mean the fee of the single GWR ticket won't be considered in the out of court settlement? (Just being optimistic )

I'll respond to some of @Hadders points as his comment seems to encompass most of the points made here:

This is a tricky one, we have discussed it to death in other threads. I would complain to Trainline about it but one of the problems is you can use any retailer you like to buy tickets. For example I have a railcard purchased through (and held in) the Trainsplit app but I regularly purchase tickets from LNER.

In my initial look into this issue I had come across many such cases as myself, I think I'll put a complaint in but I fear it would be just adding another leaf to the pile. But who knows maybe they'll get the message one day and every complaint can help.

It's frustrating, and I know it's easy to say, but try and put it to the back of your mind and get on with your life. Chalk it up to experience - yes it's embarrassing, frustrating and expensive but sometimes these things happen.

I've managed to work some mental gymnastics to put it at the back of my head. It sucks but in life these things happen and I've worked up a healthy savings. I've just convinced myself that this is what savings are for and if it was not this it would be another thing

This won't happen as Penalty Fares have to be issued at the time. Penalty Fares are rarely issued for out of date railcards these days. Train companies tend to take details so they can conduct a back-office investigation to determine the number of times someone has travelled with an invalid railcard and factor this in to the settlement cost.

I had feared as much, assuming the GWR fair is not included I'll be looking at ~£225.5 for the full price tickets so that totals £380 if we round up. This is rough but I'll just have to accept it as it could have been worse.

Forum members will be happy to proof read your reply. I suggest a short, concise reply that mentions

Great this will help put my mind at ease. In my response is it it even worth trying to offer to pay the difference of the tickets or should I just keep it vague with just offering to pay the "outstanding fare" as you put?
I imagine if I try to push my luck they might just default to the largest amount they can ask for.
Also I've seen information that I shouldn't "incriminate" myself further, by this I mean I got "caught" on this one train but have ~11 other fairs since it expired. Unless they specifically mention the other fairs should I again just keep it vague?

I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself with the planning of the letter here but I like to have a plan for these things...

Finally with trying to fight this I think this sums my opinions up best:

The vast majority of people who seek our assistance on here want their cases resolved by the most straightforward method possible, with minimum stress and impact on their lives

It sucks that it happened and I think the punishment does not fit the crime but I'd rather just pay the couple hundred than risk thousands in a court case that could lead to a criminal record. I'll plea my case and try to get the lowest settlement I can but once their ultimatum comes through I'll just accept it, it's just not worth the risk for me.

I understand they can't let people profit off this but I only save about £17 all told on these journeys. I would be happy to pay the admin fees plus say 4x the discounted amount. It just feels that an amount over twenty times more what I saved is a bit outrageous for this mistake. And furthermore it really feels like they've backed me into a corner here where I capitulate with the out of court settlement or face the full force of the law for something that was an honest mistake. I take responsibility in this and appreciate they can't let people profit from this but I feel like there is a middle ground here. Especially as if I was trying to skip on fairs this would not be an effective way of doing it as with all the discounts combined I didn't even save enough for 1 full price fare for that journey.

Mny thanks again!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi guys, first of all I'd like to say a huge thank you. I'm blown away by the support not just in this thread but on this forum.

To add some the info I missed; yes as some of you guess it was SWR.

With this comes a follow up question, all but one of my fairs since the rail card expired are with SWR, does this mean the fee of the single GWR ticket won't be considered in the out of court settlement? (Just being optimistic )

I'll respond to some of @Hadders points as his comment seems to encompass most of the points made here:


In my initial look into this issue I had come across many such cases as myself, I think I'll put a complaint in but I fear it would be just adding another leaf to the pile. But who knows maybe they'll get the message one day and every complaint can help.


I've managed to work some mental gymnastics to put it at the back of my head. It sucks but in life these things happen and I've worked up a healthy savings. I've just convinced myself that this is what savings are for and if it was not this it would be another thing



I had feared as much, assuming the GWR fair is not included I'll be looking at ~£225.5 for the full price tickets so that totals £380 if we round up. This is rough but I'll just have to accept it as it could have been worse.


Great this will help put my mind at ease. In my response is it it even worth trying to offer to pay the difference of the tickets or should I just keep it vague with just offering to pay the "outstanding fare" as you put?
I imagine if I try to push my luck they might just default to the largest amount they can ask for.
Also I've seen information that I shouldn't "incriminate" myself further, by this I mean I got "caught" on this one train but have ~11 other fairs since it expired. Unless they specifically mention the other fairs should I again just keep it vague?

I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself with the planning of the letter here but I like to have a plan for these things...

Finally with trying to fight this I think this sums my opinions up best:


It sucks that it happened and I think the punishment does not fit the crime but I'd rather just pay the couple hundred than risk thousands in a court case that could lead to a criminal record. I'll plea my case and try to get the lowest settlement I can but once their ultimatum comes through I'll just accept it, it's just not worth the risk for me.

I understand they can't let people profit off this but I only save about £17 all told on these journeys. I would be happy to pay the admin fees plus say 4x the discounted amount. It just feels that an amount over twenty times more what I saved is a bit outrageous for this mistake. And furthermore it really feels like they've backed me into a corner here where I capitulate with the out of court settlement or face the full force of the law for something that was an honest mistake. I take responsibility in this and appreciate they can't let people profit from this but I feel like there is a middle ground here. Especially as if I was trying to skip on fairs this would not be an effective way of doing it as with all the discounts combined I didn't even save enough for 1 full price fare for that journey.

Mny thanks again!!

In these cases the train company that 'catches someone' typically acts in respect of all other train companies and any related fares they discover. So you can assume they will discover fares relating to travel with GWR and charge for that too.

 

[phunly]

Hi guys,
Just when I was thinking that I would need to reach out as I was worried my case had been lost in the system or letter in the post; I received an email just this morning regarding this case.

It's as expected an email saying they are investigating my case, asking my to provide inputs and offering me to give information on any "explanations or mitigating factors that may influence our investigation".

If this thread is still active I'll post the email in here later with my response, if anyone could help proof read it and provide inputs that would be fantastic!!

For a start, would it be advisable to include how many journeys I believe I used the invalid rail card on and offer to pay an amount (+admin fees) that I feel is reasonable? Something like 4 times the amount I saved on the rail card?

Many thanks!!

 

[jfollows]

Depending on what precisely they’re asking you, don’t incriminate yourself by bringing up other journeys. If they’re just asking about the one journey when you were stopped, stick to that. You’re advised to be honest but don’t answer questions you’re not asked.

 

[WesternLancer]

For a start, would it be advisable to include how many journeys I believe I used the invalid rail card on and offer to pay an amount (+admin fees) that I feel is reasonable? Something like 4 times the amount I saved on the rail card?

Many thanks!!

Yes - thread still open if you want to post copy of what you have received

on the above - you should not be offering them a sum but use more general wording like eg

'I would be most grateful if you would kindly consider resolving the matter without the need for court action. I am happy to pay any fare that I owe along with any costs that might have arisen looking into this'

I see @jfollows answers you other point

If this was because you forgot to renew your railcard (a genuine mistake, rather than deliberate act) you can also use a phrase in your response to reassure them like

'Please be assured I had no intention to evade paying the correct fare, as my failure to renew my railcard was an oversight on my part for which i take responsibility for and i will ensure does not happen in future'

as they want to know you have learned a lesson and won't be doing it again.

 

[phunly]

Hi guys, sorry for the delayed response had a busy weekend. Bellow is the email I received followed by my draft response, I've used chatGPT to get a good first draft going.


"Good Morning,

We are currently investigating your case, involving your travel from London Waterloo to ****** Railway Stations on the 15th April 2025, when you presented a ticket from London Waterloo to ****** Railway Stations with a 16-25 railcard discount applied, and was unable to produce a valid 16-25 railcard for your ticket to be valid.

All the evidence available is being considered. If you consider that there are any explanations or mitigating factors that may influence our investigation, you are invited to respond to this email, within 7 days of the date of this email (21st August 2025).

Or alternatively please reply via email to: ******.

Please ensure that ALL details below are completed and returned to ensure our records are correct.

THIS IS NOT A REQUEST FOR PAYMENT

..."

My draft response:

"
Dear Mr Wilson,

I am writing in response to your email dated 21st August 2025 regarding the investigation into my travel from London Waterloo to ****** on 15th April 2025.

I would like to sincerely apologise for my actions and make clear that I take full responsibility for this mistake. At the time of travel, I was unaware that my 16-25 Railcard had expired, please be assured I had no intention to evade paying the correct fare, my failure to renew my railcard was an oversight on my part for which I take responsibility for and I will ensure does not happen again in future. I can only express my deep regret for not checking the validity of my Railcard before purchasing tickets.

As soon as this was brought to my attention on the platform, I immediately renewed my Railcard. I have been a regular rail user for many years and have consistently purchased Railcards throughout this time, which I believe demonstrates that this was a genuine oversight rather than an intentional act to avoid paying the correct fare.

I fully accept that it was my responsibility to ensure that my Railcard was valid before travelling, and I am very sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. I assure you that I have learned from this experience and will take greater care in the future to ensure my travel documents are always valid.

I would be most grateful if you would kindly consider resolving the matter without the need for court action. I am happy to pay any fare that I owe along with any costs that might have arisen looking into this

Please find my details below as requested:

...

Once again, I apologise sincerely for this error and the time and resources it has taken to investigate.


Kind regards,
"

Maybe a bit heavy on the apologies. Also in there email they make no mention of court action so perhaps I should reword it not to include mention of this?

Thanks all!!

 

[Trainman40083]

Paragraph 2 could you with "breaking up". Full stops.

 

[Titfield]

The date of their email you quote is quite clearly incorrect.

I agree with Trainman40083 that para 2 needs breaking up.

Otherwise I think this is a very good letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

maybe a bit heavy on the apologies. Also in there email they make no mention of court action so perhaps I should reword it not to include mention of this?

Thanks all!!

Just on those points -

- yes, if this was all an oversight (as you outlined) you probably don't need to overdo the apologies, just make it clear that you do apologise for what happened (as it were),
- and have taken practical steps to ensure it does not happen again (eg you could for example say that you have set up an alert in your own personal calendar for its expiry date so you do not overlook it in future)

- If they are not threatening court, yes i think reword it a bit so as not to bring that into the mix if it's not necessary - eg 'I would like to resolve this promptly and amicably by paying any fare that I owe...'

- also as you say you promptly bought a new railcard when this was brought to your attention it would do no harm to quote the serial number of the new card or enclose a copy of it for them to see.

At this stage they don't seem to be asking you about other travel, but as per your original message, you do need to prepare for the fact that they might do or will just investigate it anyway without asking you about it yet and then factor it into any settlement offer they might make to you.

 

[phunly]

Wow as always blown away this with this communities response!!! Please know I owe you all a pint.

I've plugged your suggestions into chatGPT again and made some alterations of my own for this final draft:

"
I am writing in response to your email dated 14th August 2025 regarding the investigation into my travel from London Waterloo to ****** on 15th April 2025.

I would like to sincerely apologise for my actions and make clear that I take full responsibility for this mistake. At the time of travel, I was unaware that my 16-25 Railcard had expired. Please be assured I had no intention to evade paying the correct fare. My failure to renew my Railcard was an oversight on my part, for which I take responsibility. I can only express my regret for not checking the validity of my Railcard before purchasing tickets.

As soon as this was brought to my attention, I immediately renewed my Railcard (serial number: [#Num]). To prevent this from happening again, I have set a reminder in my personal calendar for its expiry date.

I have been a regular rail user for many years and have consistently purchased Railcards throughout this time. I hope this demonstrates that this was a genuine oversight rather than any attempt to avoid paying the correct fare.
I would like to resolve this matter promptly and amicably by paying any fare that I owe, along with any reasonable costs arising from this investigation.

Please find my details below as requested:
...

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Kind regards,
"

Baring any other tweaks I'll be sending it off shortly.
Many many thanks!

 

[WesternLancer]

Wow as always blown away this with this communities response!!! Please know I owe you all a pint.

I've plugged your suggestions into chatGPT again and made some alterations of my own for this final draft:

"
I am writing in response to your email dated 14th August 2025 regarding the investigation into my travel from London Waterloo to ****** on 15th April 2025.

I would like to sincerely apologise for my actions and make clear that I take full responsibility for this mistake. At the time of travel, I was unaware that my 16-25 Railcard had expired. Please be assured I had no intention to evade paying the correct fare. My failure to renew my Railcard was an oversight on my part, for which I take responsibility. I can only express my regret for not checking the validity of my Railcard before purchasing tickets.

As soon as this was brought to my attention, I immediately renewed my Railcard (serial number: [#Num]). To prevent this from happening again, I have set a reminder in my personal calendar for its expiry date.

I have been a regular rail user for many years and have consistently purchased Railcards throughout this time. I hope this demonstrates that this was a genuine oversight rather than any attempt to avoid paying the correct fare.
I would like to resolve this matter promptly and amicably by paying any fare that I owe, along with any reasonable costs arising from this investigation.

Please find my details below as requested:
...

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Kind regards,
"

Baring any other tweaks I'll be sending it off shortly.
Many many thanks!

Hopefully you’ll hear back fairly soon.

 

[phunly]

Sorry for the lack of updates, life's been a bit hectic of late (landlord jacked up rent ~40% so having to find a new home within 2 months ).

But I finally for a letter through a few weeks ago, the grand totally was.....

£164 and some change. All told not so bad considering what some of my worst case scenarios where showing.

So I've payed that now and just waiting for the final confirmation that it's all settled.

Thanks for the help all, I think this matter can me considered closed!

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry for the lack of updates, life's been a bit hectic of late (landlord jacked up rent ~40% so having to find a new home within 2 months ).

But I finally for a letter through a few weeks ago, the grand totally was.....

£164 and some change. All told not so bad considering what some of my worst case scenarios where showing.

So I've payed that now and just waiting for the final confirmation that it's all settled.

Thanks for the help all, I think this matter can me considered closed!

Thanks for update - needless to say keep copies of everything and confirmation things are all closed and be prepared to keep them long term - at least a year or more in the unlikely event you ever need them.

Sorry to hear about such a steep rent rise causing you other issues.