Antisocial behaviour on the railway network

[generalnerd]

I hate to be negative, but is it just me or is the British railway network getting more antisocial?

I say this because I encountered a video where one of those auditor channels (they basically go around filming and make content out of being told they cannot film)

VIDEO LINK:

description of video:

In the video the auditor was travelling with another passenger on a group ticket (WMT requires at least 3 to be traveling together)

The guard then proceeds to inform them (politely although I do think she did struggle to handle it fully correctly towards the end) and the recorder complains that she is being racist towards the other passenger.

Eventually, the filmer chases the guard down the train and starts shouting (could be described as harassment but I will refrain from accusing) He then walks away and tells other train passengers about her before leaving the train at the next stop.

After seeing the video, it inspired me to write this post. Not long ago I ended up on a late train out of Doncaster (a failed train had caused my LNER service to be late, leading to me missing my connection)

While waiting in the waiting room, a hen-do arrived and started ordering from the vending machine. When the food didn’t come out, one of the girls started hitting the machine.

Some older passengers told her to stop and that they will be caught on CCTV. She then proceeded to verbally abuse the older passengers before leaving the waiting room.

A short while later, when on the platform, a train came through (stopping) on the platform they were waiting for a train on (both myself and the hen-do we’re taking the same train). When the train was ready to depart, the group started playing about looking in the windows of the train. The dispatcher told them to get back, and they did, but the group shouted at the dispatcher that he was a little h-tler.

Luckily, I didn't have the misfortune of encountering the group again.

Well I hate to have created such a long post, but I just can’t help but notice how the anti-social behaviour has increased. I understand the ladies on the Hen-do were probably drunk, but the man in the video and in many other instances I have encountered in real life are certainly not drunk, and have no excuse to act the way they have

(if the mods deem it appropriate, please delete/move the post to another category that fits it better)

 

[Deepgreen]

The short answer is yes - steadily and inexorably, mirroring the rest of society.

 

[Sonic1234]

All of the people above are lucky they didn't have an expired railcard, otherwise they would have got the book thrown at them.

 

[styles]

A mix really.

I think it just mirrors the increasing disrespect in wider society in the UK. Convenience stores having to employ security guards, staff in pubs, retail, paramedics wearing bodycams, riots spread through TikTok, etc. The rail network isn't anything special in this regard.

I do also think it needs to be born in mind that social media and everything being videoed makes crime more visible. Our village Facebook group today had a post up about somebody littering from their car window. This isn't new, it happened decades ago in the village, but there wasn't a Facebook group in the 1990s and someone would just begrudgingly clean it up and at best gossip about it at the pub, but certainly not broadcast it to a thousand or so people.

These "auditors" and grade A weapons though. People need to follow the NPSA guidance on dealing with them. https://www.npsa.gov.uk/social-media-auditors.

• Chat in a friendly manner
• Assess for hostile intent
• Limit interactions beyond what's necessary
• Monitor risk of escalation

The TLDR is you should acknowledge their presence and allude to discovering their presence due to your CCTV/security, be polite, don't try and stop them filming or get into protracted discussions with them, then walk away. Appreciate you can't so easily do this when you're a ticket inspector trying to get them to buy a new ticket, but if they're just hanging around filming random stuff, leave them to it - they won't get any confrontation, which is the content they want, so they'll eventually leave and not bother to upload the footage because nobody genuinely wants to see half an hour of standing outside the gates to a train depot with nothing happening. Even the geekiest of train geeks wouldn't watch that, and the "auditors" know it. They also know that if they upload videos to their social media channels which don't generate engagement, they'll be demoted in the algorithms which dictate who gets to see their content, and in turn, how much money they make from it all.

 

[John Luxton]

Since 2021 I have started wandering around quite a bit on the train once again after many years absence. But the only antisocial behaviour I have seen was on a TfW Chester to Lime Street on an evening service last year.

Some chaps were getting a bit lively and the lady guard came and spoke to them threatening to put them off the train there and then at Frodsham that seemed to put them in their place.

Perhaps I have been lucky? Though I don't usually tend to travel very late this one incident I did encounter was lateish as I was on my way home from a trip from either south or mid Wales.

 

[styles]

Since 2021 I have started wandering around quite a bit on the train once again after many years absence. But the only antisocial behaviour I have seen was on a TfW Chester to Lime Street on an evening service last year.

Some chaps were getting a bit lively and the lady guard came and spoke to them threatening to put them off the train there and then at Frodsham that seemed to put them in their place.

Perhaps I have been lucky? Though I don't usually tend to travel very late this one incident I did encounter was lateish as I was on my way home from a trip from either south or mid Wales.

I find antisocial behaviour on the rail network to be just as common/uncommon as off the rail network to be honest. There's obviously some different scenarios where idk a hen party or a group of football fans cause a disruption on the train, but they're the groups who would cause issues with bouncers at bars or harass people on the street or whatever anyway.

Any time I've raised concerns with train staff about people's behaviour, it's been dealt with very quickly and efficiently. Of course, if we move to driver-only operation, the same may not be said. The London Underground in my experience is pretty bad for antisocial behaviour, as is the Glasgow Subway - worse than the say ScotRail services with a staff member on board.

 

[Purple Train]

I was travelling on an evening train from Cambridge to Finsbury Park yesterday and the group of rather loud, feet-on-seats, foul-mouthed young people (two female, one male, for what it's worth) who boarded at Cambridge were replaced at Hatfield by a man playing TikTok videos very loudly through his phone, and another gentleman having a very loud voice call on speakerphone. The person travelling with me casually remarked to me around Knebworth, "Is this the antisocial carriage?" - as I'm only about five foot six I exchanged slightly passive-aggressive remarks with them until the offending parties took the hint. Normally I just ignore it for fear of retaliation (see above comment on my height), but I was, I think, in a particularly foul mood yesterday, as well as not travelling alone!

That being said, I've noticed that amongst the group of regular commuters on the line I commute on, there's at least one whose behaviour is reliably absolutely appalling, even at 8.30 in the morning. My aged relatives' accounts of commuting in late 90s Birmingham was certainly much more respectable, although a certain amount of rose-tinted spectacles may be responsible, as, alas, is all too common when comparing this heathen age with those that have gone before. It would be interesting to compare it to the late 80s or so - I wasn't around then, but there are certainly some hair-raising accounts of anti-social behaviour on the Forum and elsewhere.

 

[azOOOOOma]

It is getting worse. I usually just move the normal people away as people can’t be reasoned with and their behaviour will just continue as soon as I leave. There are limited places to remove antisocial people.

I drive a lot. I can’t be bothered with other people’s bad behaviour and I get to travel for free! Plus I’m 5’2 and female. I wouldn’t stand a chance.

 

[generalnerd]

but if they're just hanging around filming random stuff, leave them to it - they won't get any confrontation, which is the content they want, so they'll eventually leave and not bother to upload the footage because nobody genuinely wants to see half an hour of standing outside the gates to a train depot with nothing happening. Even the geekiest of train geeks wouldn't watch that, and the "auditors" know it. They also know that if they upload videos to their social media channels which don't generate engagement, they'll be demoted in the algorithms which dictate who gets to see their content, and in turn, how much money they make from it all.

The issue with auditors is that they are often filming sensitive sites (military bases and the like) so checking they aren’t filming with malicious intent is key.

Filming at rail depots isn’t really sensitive and most people there are train enthusiasts trying to catch a glimpse of a new/refurbished/old unit.

 

[Deepgreen]

Anti-social behaviour is not just abusiveness, rowdiness, etc., but basic stuff like feet on seats, music playing, loud phone calls and so on, which have become accepted by a sector of society as being OK and normal. There is probably a large element of age difference involved, but it seems that people are just getting less and less self-aware.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2025 ==

It is getting worse. I usually just move the normal people away as people can’t be reasoned with and their behaviour will just continue as soon as I leave. There are limited places to remove antisocial people.

I drive a lot. I can’t be bothered with other people’s bad behaviour and I get to travel for free! Plus I’m 5’2 and female. I wouldn’t stand a chance.

Sorry - how? In what context? Do you mean you drive trains or road vehicles?

 

[azOOOOOma]

I move the passengers to a different coach so that they are away from the anti-social behaviour or upgrade them.

As for driving I mean when I travel for leisure. I’ll avoid the trains as much as possible.

 

[generalnerd]

Anti-social behaviour is not just abusiveness, rowdiness, etc., but basic stuff like feet on seats, music playing, loud phone calls and so on, which have become accepted by a sector of society as being OK and normal. There is probably a large element of age difference involved, but it seems that people are just getting less and less self-aware.

This is probably one of the most damaging parts. You even find TikTok videos of people laughing about the people who care about feet being on seats and loud music, portraying them as Karen’s’. It’s also the case with fare evading, but that is a whole different subject entirely.

 

[deltic]

I don't think it is any worse than in the past, you don't hear as much about muggings and gangs steaming through trains as a few decades ago.

 

[styles]

The issue with auditors is that they are often filming sensitive sites (military bases and the like) so checking they aren’t filming with malicious intent is key.

It's not really, as you can tell these muppets a mile off - they have a camera strapped 4 points to their chest, they're holding cameras up on extended poles, and are very overt. People doing recons on military bases are not so overt.

Crucially, also, people filming more covertly are also not breaking the law, so intervening achieves very little.

That's before we consider that we were talking about trains, not military bases. Some military bases are 'prohibited places' in law covered by the SOCPA 2005 legislation. If the government wanted to make military bases designated sites under this legislation, they could. You could also simply erect a better privacy fence.

Filming at rail depots isn’t really sensitive and most people there are train enthusiasts trying to catch a glimpse of a new/refurbished/old unit.

Exactly. If you see people filming there - leave them to it. If they're enthusiasts, happy days. If they're "auditors" - leave them to it also.

 

[6Gman]

Well I hate to have created such a long post, but I just can’t help but notice how the anti-social behaviour has increased. I understand the ladies on the Hen-do were probably drunk, but the man in the video and in many other instances I have encountered in real life are certainly not drunk, and have no excuse to act the way they have

Being drunk does not constitute an excuse for anti-social behaviour.

 

[chris_in_salop]

That being said, I've noticed that amongst the group of regular commuters on the line I commute on, there's at least one whose behaviour is reliably absolutely appalling, even at 8.30 in the morning. My aged relatives' accounts of commuting in late 90s Birmingham was certainly much more respectable, although a certain amount of rose-tinted spectacles may be responsible, as, alas, is all too common when comparing this heathen age with those that have gone before. It would be interesting to compare it to the late 80s or so - I wasn't around then, but there are certainly some hair-raising accounts of anti-social behaviour on the Forum and elsewhere.

I started commuting to school around Birmingham in 1988, and I can't remember as much casual anti-social behaviour on the train then as there is now. Of course the trains were much more noisy - a 1950s DMU struggling up Old Hill Bank drowned out most passenger sound - and no-one was using loud electronic devices. I recall seeing a group of teenage girls sharing some 'Mojo' sweets, remembered as an unusual event as people never usually ate food on commuter trains.

However I do accept that these may be the rose-tinted ramblings of an increasingly misanthropic middle-aged man.

 

[dk1]

I don’t notice it too much unless you include people having social media on other than silent.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Apr 2025 ==

Not sure why they do this. Often seems the more chavvy in society.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I go on the trains (GA regionals) semi-regularly and I've never seen any antisocial behaviour. Usually the trains are really quiet even if there are quite a few people on them. The worst I've had is people having a kinda loud conversation, which I don't mind

 

[Travelmonkey]

Ultimately its a societal problem that's growing. I was nearly pushed off the ramp at Nottingham a while ago by 3 drunk ladies from Kettering, they were being racially abusive to the guard. And damaging the toilet. I did do a autism they came through huffing "I'm gonna complain" so I responded stupidly "well I'm putting praise in" which upset them they got all up in my face so I dialed 999 and pushed them away from me, they ripped my phone out my hand thinking I was filming them,

Silly thing is man in front of me was moaning about them the minute I stoop to self defence he suddenly swaps to their side,

People suck and alcohol makes it increasingly more vollitie,

Annoying thing is the "CCTV Was broken" so the BTP couldn't press charges,

 

[stuu]

I don't think it is any worse than in the past, you don't hear as much about muggings and gangs steaming through trains as a few decades ago.

Agreed. The past was a lot worse in the sense of actual physical threat. A few people watching annoying videos out loud doesn't compare in the slightest..and in my experience it's no more likely to be teenagers than over 60s doing that

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

It is reflecting society. Entitlement is rampant and popularity is gained at all costs. Attention spans last as long as a 15 second video and there is no room for discourse, decorum or nuance as everything is monetised.

Politeness and manners are seem as stupid, unworthy and to be mocked.

I have even been spat at by asking someone to take their shoes off the seats on a Northern train. However, it won’t stop me challenging. It is the right thing to do.

 

[Sprinter107]

Whilst there has always been anti social behaviour on public transport, it has definitely got worse, and more frequent. I deal with it daily, whereas when I first started on the railway this was not the case. Its also got a lot more violent and aggressive than it ever was. Its not just the trains. I've noticed across the last 18 months or so, anti social behaviour on buses in my area has also got worse, and it's quite a regular thing now to see people board the bus, and just walk straight past the driver, and up the stairs, without any intention of paying their fare.

 

[AverageJoe]

Some of these auditors are out there looking for trouble and confrontation because it’s good content for them and gets views on social media which means money in their pocket.

They don’t care about the consequences for staff and others passengers around them.

 

[GN Boy]

I don’t know if it’s out of pure stupidity or a deliberate act; however I find ASB takes place quite regularly behind the drivers cab (the wall is pretty thin on a 700/387), for us drivers to notice. I’ve had various undesirables kicked off in the past as they’ve genuinely became a distraction.

 

[generalnerd]

Ultimately its a societal problem that's growing. I was nearly pushed off the ramp at Nottingham a while ago by 3 drunk ladies from Kettering, they were being racially abusive to the guard. And damaging the toilet. I did do a autism they came through huffing "I'm gonna complain" so I responded stupidly "well I'm putting praise in" which upset them they got all up in my face so I dialed 999 and pushed them away from me, they ripped my phone out my hand thinking I was filming them,

Silly thing is man in front of me was moaning about them the minute I stoop to self defence he suddenly swaps to their side,

People suck and alcohol makes it increasingly more vollitie,

Annoying thing is the "CCTV Was broken" so the BTP couldn't press charges,

Oh dear. Sounds like a rough incident…

 

[DarloRich]

It is neither worse nor better. What "it" is changes with society - you see fewer people having a crafty ciggie these days but more people playing stupid things out loud on thier phones

Also is it not incumbent on us to do something if we are unhappy? Sitting there tutting wont solve the problem!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is neither worse nor better. What "it" is changes with society - you see fewer people having a crafty ciggie these days but more people playing stupid things out loud on thier phones

A bit of vaping I suppose.

Also is it not incumbent on us to do something if we are unhappy? Sitting there tutting wont solve the problem!

The curious thing I've found is that society increasingly finds playing rubbish out loud on phones acceptable, and if you ask people to stop it you're as likely to be the one being ganged up on as the phone user. Even by people who don't themselves do it. It's bizarre, and never happened for smoking.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

As I pointed out on the last anti-social behaviour thread, I wonder if anyone who gets annoyed by the behaviour of others on trains has come across the "let them" theory that's been attracting attention of late? Essential the principle is that, rather than choosing to get angry, you simply let other people behave however they like and don't let it get to you.

It’s nothing new; essentially it's the principle of stoicism which has been around for hundreds of years. What it boils down to is that you are not responsible for the behaviour of others but you are in control of how you react to it. So if someone on your train is playing loud music, putting their feet on the seats or trying to annoy you, you have a choice. You can either get wound up by it or you can choose to not let it bother you. I've been doing it for some time and I find it quite liberating; here's a link with a bit more detail.

The Power of “The Let Them Theory” by Mel Robbins

This post is about the brilliant book 'The Let Them Theory' by Mel Robbins, and how the Let Them concept can help with your health and weight loss goals.

hayleyplummer.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s nothing new; essentially it's the principle of stoicism which has been around for hundreds of years. What it boils down to is that you are not responsible for the behaviour of others but you are in control of how you react to it. So if someone on your train is playing loud music, putting their feet on the seats or trying to annoy you, you have a choice. You can either get wound up by it or you can choose to not let it bother you. I've been doing it for some time and I find it quite liberating; here's a link with a bit more detail.

I think some people are capable of that and others not. I'm getting tempted to purchase a good pair of over-ear noise cancelling headphones, though, which is another way to ignore it. (The noise cancelling on AirPods is good, but not good enough to filter out speech and similar, just background noise like engines).

 

[ExRes]

Speaking as an old git I'm not actually sure whether society is that much different than in the past, in my view the main culprit for the apparent increase is social media, people behaved like thugs in the 70s for instance but there was no way of knowing other than through personal experience or via the media when large incidents occurred such as Bank Holiday punch ups and football riots, nowadays it's reported everywhere instantly, does that simply mean we know about it and assume it's worse? no doubt I'll be pilloried for saying this but in the past there was no 'mental illness' card to fall back on which seems to be a general modern excuse for deliberately behaving badly along with poor parenting and appalling education levels, if there are no rules being set then what else can happen than other than increasingly bad behaviour?