Payment Plan on railcard fine. Cross country

[zak_trueman]

Hi everyone, long story short in October last year I was spoken to on a train regarding the fact that I had been using a railcard on my trainline app for many months even though it had expired. I was 100% not doing this on purpose as I hadn’t realised that I had to remove the railcard myself (stupid I know) anyway I have received a letter through the door today basically saying i need to pay a penalty of £957 which is basically the amount I owe back to them, but they are offering a payment plan. I did try and call them today but couldn’t get through to anyone. Just for peace of mind does anyone know what sort of payment plans cross country offer as all I would possibly need is it to be split into two separate payments.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could you please post the letter you’ve received with your personal details removed?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi everyone, long story short in October last year I was spoken to on a train regarding the fact that I had been using a railcard on my trainline app for many months even though it had expired. I was 100% not doing this on purpose as I hadn’t realised that I had to remove the railcard myself (stupid I know) anyway I have received a letter through the door today basically saying i need to pay a penalty of £957 which is basically the amount I owe back to them, but they are offering a payment plan. I did try and call them today but couldn’t get through to anyone. Just for peace of mind does anyone know what sort of payment plans cross country offer as all I would possibly need is it to be split into two separate payments.

Welcome to the forum.

It's unusual for a payment plan to be offered, so we don't have deep knowledge of what Cross Country will generally accept. But from what I have seen in another (non-railway) organisation, the sort of plan they would like would be one which gets the money in, as quickly as possible, with minimum risk to the organisation. So I would expect Cross Country to accept a two part payment plan (it's quick and it's simple) particularly if as much money as possible is paid in the first installment. So if you were to offer (for example) a down payment of £600 followed by the remaining £357 a month later, they would probably accept (subject to any costs they add for using a payment plan). But £357 now followed by £600 in a month might not be accepted - what if you decide not to bother with the second, bigger payment?

 

[island]

When in October did this happen?

CrossCountry are either out of time to prosecute you, or very close to running out of time. It may not be in your interest to enter into any payment plans.

 

[John R]

When in October were you spoken to? XC only has six months to lay papers before the court prosecuting you, so may be out of time. Which may explain why they are offering a payment plan as they cannot prosecute you (which if found guilty would leave you with a criminal conviction), and can only take civil action to recover the money.

 

[zak_trueman]

When in October were you spoken to? XC only has six months to lay papers before the court prosecuting you, so may be out of time. Which may explain why they are offering a payment plan as they cannot prosecute you (which if found guilty would leave you with a criminal conviction), and can only take civil action to recover the money.

Well this is why i’m asking as it was on the 2nd of October so it has already been over 6 months. On the letter they are threatening court but are also offering a payment plan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==

When in October did this happen?

CrossCountry are either out of time to prosecute you, or very close to running out of time. It may not be in your interest to enter into any payment plans.

2nd of October is when I was spoken to and the date on the letter says 3rd of April. They do mention court on the letter but also mention a payment plan

 

[John R]

Well this is why i’m asking as it was on the 2nd of October so it has already been over 6 months. On the letter they are threatening court but are also offering a payment plan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==


2nd of October is when I was spoken to and the date on the letter says 3rd of April. They do mention court on the letter but also mention a payment plan

So unless they have already laid papers, which seems unlikely, they are out of time, and can only try and recover the money in a civil court. ie they cannot prosecute you.

Have they told you how they have calculated the £957. Is it the difference between the railcard cost and cost without a railcard for each ticket, or have they calculated it based on a more penal basis (eg the full Anytime Single fare for each journey you made.) There is some ambiguity as to how much would be an appropriate amount for them to claim in the event of a civil claim.

 

[zak_trueman]

So unless they have already laid papers, which seems unlikely, they are out of time, and can only try and recover the money in a civil court. ie they cannot prosecute you.

Have they told you how they have calculated the £957. Is it the difference between the railcard cost and cost without a railcard for each ticket, or have they calculated it based on a more penal basis (eg the full Anytime Single fare for each journey you made.) There is some ambiguity as to how much would be an appropriate amount for them to claim in the event of a civil claim.

It states £657 is the amount that I owe them and £300 settlement. It doesn’t state exactly why the amount is £657 but it can’t be the difference between the railcard and without the railcard because I certainly didn’t purchase that many tickets for that amount to make sense. They might be charging me full price for all the tickets I did purchase in that time. Whatever it is i am just hoping they are willing to work with me as I am more than happy to pay that amount, i am just worried they are gonna make me pay it at a rate that would really leave me struggling to survive.

 

[John R]

As requested in post 2, can you show us the letter you have received, making sure you obscure any identifying information. We need to see exactly what they are telling you.

 

[island]

Well this is why i’m asking as it was on the 2nd of October so it has already been over 6 months. On the letter they are threatening court but are also offering a payment plan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==


2nd of October is when I was spoken to and the date on the letter says 3rd of April. They do mention court on the letter but also mention a payment plan

It is too late for them to take you to criminal court for this matter.

They could still take you to county court, although we very rarely hear of train companies doing this.

I would be inclined to respond along these terms:

Reference number

Dear [name]

I confirm receipt of your letter dated 3 April.

No admissions are made in respect of the allegations contained therein.

As you will be aware, Section 127 of the Magistrates Court Act 1980 precludes you from taking criminal action against me in this matter. Accordingly, I do not intend to enter into further correspondence with you.

Yours sincerely

[your name]

 

[zanee]

It is too late for them to take you to criminal court for this matter.

They could still take you to county court, although we very rarely hear of train companies doing this.

I would be inclined to respond along these terms:

Reference number

Dear [name]

I confirm receipt of your letter dated 3 April.

No admissions are made in respect of the allegations contained therein.

As you will be aware, Section 127 of the Magistrates Court Act 1980 precludes you from taking criminal action against me in this matter. Accordingly, I do not intend to enter into further correspondence with you.

I've seen that CrossCountry can be flexible, especially if you make an advance and are willing to pay. Many people have been able to negotiate two or even three monthly payments, so it's definitely worth trying again.

When I was looking for similar situations, I also came across this interesting site with 10 deposit casinos that talks about low deposit options. You can win some money and eventually become financially independent. It can even be a nice stress relief.

Yours sincerely

[your name]

That’s a clear and well-reasoned response! I appreciate you sharing it; it might help others in similar situations, too!

 

[furlong]

it can’t be the difference between the railcard and without the railcard because I certainly didn’t purchase that many tickets for that amount to make sense.

Train companies have a habit of pushing their luck and claiming they are entitled to considerably more money than should strictly be the case.

If you respond as island suggests, and then they take you to the County Court (which isn't prosecuting and doesn't risk a criminal record), you'd have a decent chance to argue that you only owe the difference between what you should have paid and what you actually paid, and they may also be required to justify the level of any disproportionate 'admin fee' they attempt to add on top giving you a decent chance of getting that slashed down to something more reasonable too. Or in other words you might end up paying considerably less than any settlement they are currently mooting. (I think one reason we don't see many civil cases is the can of worms opened if lower settlements became firmly established there: they'd risk becoming obliged to reduce those lucrative exaggerated out-of-court settlement offers accordingly and potentially even have to reopen and pay back previous ones. Better to let a few people off than invite detailed scrutiny of what might be decided was malpractice.)

 

[styles]

For what it's worth, in the unlikely event it does go to a county court, the judge would basically look at your high level income and expenditure and make a decision based on what's reasonable to your personal circumstances. If you could only afford say £50 a month on a £600 debt, then XC would likely have to accept that, and if you'd already offered that, there wouldn't be any need for XC to be taking it to court. A judge in a civil court looking at a small claim isn't going to force somebody to pay more than they can afford.

Agree with island though - I'd send that response and you may well find this just disappears.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don’t think the op from this thread has been back since mid April despite informative recent posts.