TfL staff nominee pass question

[JF122]

Hey all, apologies if this is the wrong place to post this, please let me know if that is the case. I have a TfL staff nominee pass and im having trouble finding out which, if any, national rail/non-underground services i can use this on. I've tried asking my parents, but they seem not to be certain either. The information ive found online has seemed somewhat ambiguous, though i might be looking in the wrong places. If anyone could help me out, i would much appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

 

[Dstock7080]

Staff, Staff Nominee and Retired Oyster cards also allow free travel on the following National Rail services (standard class only) between the following stations:-
Amersham-Marylebone
Finsbury Park-Moorgate (via Drayton Park only)
Fenchurch Street-Upminster
Stratford-Liverpool Street
Kentish Town-Elephant & Castle or London Bridge
Euston-Watford Junction.

 

[JF122]

Staff, Staff Nominee and Retired Oyster cards also allow free travel on the following National Rail services (standard class only) between the following stations:-
Amersham-Marylebone
Finsbury Park-Moorgate (via Drayton Park only)
Fenchurch Street-Upminster
Stratford-Liverpool Street
Kentish Town-Elephant & Castle or London Bridge
Euston-Watford Junction.

Excellent! Thanks for the rapid reply!

 

[Mawkie]

Excellent! Thanks for the rapid reply!

Worth mentioning for any future readers that TfL Nominee Pass and Bus Operator Nominee passes have slightly different availability (although I've heard them both referred to as a TfL staff pass).

 

[notverydeep]

For completeness, they are of course also valid on Elizabeth line and London Overground services, which while contracted by TfL rather than the DfT, remain nominally 'National Rail' services. In the case of Stratford to Liverpool Street referred to by @Dstock7080 above, this means that over this section you can use Greater Anglia services in addition to those operated by the Elizabeth line. Beware, these passes are not valid on any Avanti West Coast service between Watford Junction and Euston (as these normally stop at Watford Junction to pick up only northbound or set down only towards London).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Worth mentioning for any future readers that TfL Nominee Pass and Bus Operator Nominee passes have slightly different availability (although I've heard them both referred to as a TfL staff pass).

Specifically Bus Operator and Bus Operator Nominee passes have no validity on non-TfL National Rail services whatsoever, even on what would normally be interavailable routes. That may be relaxed during Engineering Work, however.

 

[lb001]

Beware, these passes are not valid on any Avanti West Coast service between Watford Junction and Euston (as these normally stop at Watford Junction to pick up only northbound or set down only towards London).

I'm not sure that the bit about Avanti is true. Avanti is listed on the internal staff travel briefing about interavailability as being valid on their services. I believe it would definitely be valid with a split ticket, i.e. travelling from Milton Keynes, MKC-WFJ ticket, then using staff pass WFJ-EUS, as that fits the description of the National Rail Conditions of Travel, 14. Using a Combination of Tickets, as the train does not need to call as a part of this requirement, as per 14.3. I know a number of colleagues who have split season tickets at WFJ using Avanti and have never had an issue.

In terms of wishing to alight/join at Watford Junction travelling to/from Euston, as you say, there are no services that are not 'pick up/alight only', however, I think you'll find, practically, speaking to the train manager has ALWAYS allowed me to travel on this route alighting at WFJ. Of course, there is no 'right' for this, and should the TM not allow you, should that stop get cancelled, etc., there is no recourse really.

It's always been a bit of a grey area, and its complicated because it doesn't really make sense for it to be included on the internal staff travel advice if it's not technically ever going to be valid.

 

[boiledbeans2]

You might want to read this earlier thread:

TfL staff oyster - NR validity

As I understand, a TfL staff oyster allows free travel on TfL routes. Which NR routes are also included in the free travel? With some Googling, I found this document, which lists 6 NR routes. https://foi.tfl.gov.uk/FOI-1604-2021/CoU-Staff%20nominee%20%20May%202015.pdf However, from the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[LastOfDitches]

On a related note, I just wanted to double check something regarding the Watford route. I know there's (rightly or wrongly) been issues with Staff Passes being used on Avanti, but are they valid on every other service from Euston to Watford Junction? The reason I ask is that in internal documents TfL only explicitly mention LNWR trains, and though some services are branded like that, others are run with trains in West Midlands Railway livery. My understanding is that these two brands are essentially the same operator and therefore the pass would be valid on both, but being TfL staff the intricacies of how TOCs are structured isn't really my area of expertise. Have I got this right?

 

[bluegoblin7]

As per the Staff Travel SharePoint and Staff Oyster card conditions of use document (R2990) it is valid on all National Rail services, in Standard class only, between Euston and Watford Junction. As much as some try to argue otherwise, this does include Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper as part of split ticketing arrangements, or if there are fully open stops. I’m not sure what documents you’re looking at.

 

[LastOfDitches]

There's a T&R guidance document which mentions LNWR and Avanti, but not WMR or Caledonian Sleeper (which is why my question was specifically about the trains branded as WMR), so thanks for clarifying.

 

[Watershed]

There's a T&R guidance document which mentions LNWR and Avanti, but not WMR or Caledonian Sleeper (which is why my question was specifically about the trains branded as WMR), so thanks for clarifying.

West Midlands Railway (WMR) and London Northwestern Railway (LNWR/LNR) are brands used by West Midlands Trains (WMT).

WMT have a variety of rolling stock in different branded liveries but the branding makes no difference to ticket validity; if a ticket is advertised as valid on "LNWR" then it is valid on all WMT services whether WMR or LNWR branded.

 

[DLRfan1]

As per the Staff Travel SharePoint and Staff Oyster card conditions of use document (R2990) it is valid on all National Rail services, in Standard class only, between Euston and Watford Junction. As much as some try to argue otherwise, this does include Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper as part of split ticketing arrangements, or if there are fully open stops. I’m not sure what documents you’re looking at.

The problem is Avanti do not have any open stops at Watford meaning except for split ticketing, staff Oysters are wholly invalid. That being said, almost all TMs will allow travel regardless, but there is no right.

 

[philthetube]

The problem is Avanti do not have any open stops at Watford meaning except for split ticketing, staff Oysters are wholly invalid. That being said, almost all TMs will allow travel regardless, but there is no right.

However platform staff at Euston will not.

 

[island]

As per the Staff Travel SharePoint and Staff Oyster card conditions of use document (R2990) it is valid on all National Rail services, in Standard class only, between Euston and Watford Junction. As much as some try to argue otherwise, this does include Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper as part of split ticketing arrangements, or if there are fully open stops.

But there aren't. All of Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper's stops at Watford Junction are pick up only northbound and drop off only southbound.

 

[bluegoblin7]

The problem is Avanti do not have any open stops at Watford meaning except for split ticketing, staff Oysters are wholly invalid. That being said, almost all TMs will allow travel regardless, but there is no right.

But there aren't. All of Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper's stops at Watford Junction are pick up only northbound and drop off only southbound.

Thus the word 'if'.

 

[yorkie]

Beware, these passes are not valid on any Avanti West Coast service between Watford Junction and Euston (as these normally stop at Watford Junction to pick up only northbound or set down only towards London).

Presumably these passes are considered to be season and/or area based tickets, and therefore would be valid to a destination such as Milton Keynes, Rugby and beyond, providing the customer held a valid ticket from Watford Junction.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2026 ==

. As much as some try to argue otherwise, this does include Avanti and Caledonian Sleeper as part of split ticketing arrangements, ...

Thanks; just to confirm does anyone consider this to be controversial or is it universally accepted to be the case?

I know in the past Virgin Trains staff used to incorrectly deny Travel cards held on Oyster , which led to a high profile case and website being set up (now defunct), but those days are long gone now, and I would also think that the awkward barrier staff at Euston may be a bit more likely to honour a TfL staff pass, than a ticket held by an 'ordinary' member of the public.

 

[notverydeep]

Presumably these passes are considered to be season and/or area based tickets, and therefore would be valid to a destination such as Milton Keynes, Rugby and beyond, providing the customer held a valid ticket from Watford Junction.

That is a good question. The advice to staff is that they are not valid on "InterCity" services. But in a post British Rail world, is there a strict / contractual definition of the term "InterCity" for National Rail services? I don't think there are any Avanti West Coast commuters in my area, so I can't say whether they would be valid if (say) paired with a Milton Keynes to Watford Junction season. My reading of the internal advice suggest not, but I don't know the details of the original agreement (presumably with BR) and how it affects today's Avanti WC TOC...

[Edit later] I have been rechecking the Staff Travel intranet - and the old advice document, with its 'InterCity' reference, which persisted for many years after the brand was dropped for National Rail services, does appear to have been updated and the new document does not qualify the validity for that section, so perhaps the option to combine with an Avanti Season ticket is now permitted after all. But it I assume no ticket (including the TfL Staff Oyster) to just Watford Junction would be acceptable for an Avanti train that was only picking up Northbound or setting down Southbound...

 

[bluegoblin7]

There is nothing in 'R2990 A4 Staff Oyster card conditions of use' about 'InterCity' services or otherwise. This is the only document that formally governs the Staff Oyster card, and anything else posted internally is not advice nor contractually binding. The same document is explicit:

You can use your staff Oyster card on the following:

• National Rail services (standard class only) between the following stations:
  • Euston - Watford Junction

I haven't had reason to try using my staff pass with the beds, but have done so several times over the last decade on Virgin/Avanti both with stopping and not-stopping services at Watford. There's sometimes been pushback at the barriers at Euston, but never any issues with on board staff. Barrier staff who have pushed back have always said 'well speak to the guard first' on letting me through (I think realising I wasn't taking no for an answer and, given you need to present a staff photo card for the Oyster to be valid, that I had more to lose if it was indeed invalid and it got referred for fare evasion).

Presumably these passes are considered to be season and/or area based tickets, and therefore would be valid to a destination such as Milton Keynes, Rugby and beyond, providing the customer held a valid ticket from Watford Junction.

I concede it can be argued whether staff passes can explicitly be considered 'season and/or area based tickets', particularly given TfL's insistence that they do not cost anything in revenue, but the National Rail availability is explicitly derived from BR-era interavailable routes and it is generally accepted that they function the same as a Travelcard where they are valid.

As a further example, Greater Anglia's revenue are extremely hot on staff pass misuse but don't bat an eyelid to one being used as a non-stop split at Stratford.

 

[notverydeep]

There is nothing in 'R2990 A4 Staff Oyster card conditions of use' about 'InterCity' services or otherwise.

Agreed (and hence my later update to the post above...).

 

[bluegoblin7]

There hasn’t been any reference to “Intercity” for the decade I’ve been working for LU.

 

[boiledbeans2]

There is nothing in 'R2990 A4 Staff Oyster card conditions of use' about 'InterCity' services or otherwise. This is the only document that formally governs the Staff Oyster card, and anything else posted internally is not advice nor contractually binding. The same document is explicit:
[...]

Based on that document, it would be permissible to use it on Southern services between Watford Junction and Wembley Central?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Yes.