WMR using wrong railcard

[heavendaviss8]

Hi. I've been accidentally using a 16-17 railcard instead of the 16-25 railcard that has been valid throughout this time. It was an unfortunate mistake that they only noticed today. Previously my tickets have been scanned by ticketing officers and they did not say anything so I did not realise. Today the officer asked for my railcard and I showed her but then she pointed out the mistake which is when I realised. She did a interview under caution and said I would get a letter soon. She did not express the severity of the incident and just said "this happens a lot you're not the first or the last". I was fully compliant but then read online just how serious this can be. I called customer services and they said they'd be happy to forward an email to the relevant team to whom I said

"Dear Team,
Kindly please forward the following to the relevant department.
I was travelling from Milton Keynes to Northampton with a weekly season ticket and had unfortunately added a 16-17 railcard instead of a the valid 16-25 railcard that is currently valid.
I was unaware that I had make the mistake and was happy to show my railcard to the inspector when asked. She pointed out that it was the incorrect one and when I took a look I realised it was. I accepted my mistake and offered to make a payment on the spot however she said she would need to interview me and I would receive a letter later owing to the fact that the weekly season ticket was involved.
Please accept my sincerest apologies, I will certainly be more cautious with double checking that the correct railcard has been applied. I have also familiarised myself the terms and conditions further. Additionally, I have bought a new ticket for my return to Milton Keynes using the correct railcard, I hope this evidences that I do want to rectify the mistake I have made. I request that we can settle this via fare payment, and any additional charges that may apply.
Again, my sincerest apologies."

I'm a little scared of what the outcome will be.
And should I email the digitalfrauds team?

 

[AlterEgo]

You shouldn’t do anything until you are contacted. There is no need to contact them ahead of this, and there will likely be no case yet to attach your email to.

The 16-25 railcard can’t be used to discount season tickets so it’s likely you’ll be asked to repay the Anytime Single fare for every journey you made. How long have you been claiming the discount? And, are you over the age of 18?

 

[heavendaviss8]

I am over the age of 18. They only know about this week but if they were to check my logs they might find the rest of the month. I am prepared for a hefty sum around 400-500 but hopefully less.
I just want to know what the chances of settling this without any legal involvement is

 

[Cuthbert]

I am over the age of 18. They only know about this week but if they were to check my logs they might find the rest of the month. I am prepared for a hefty sum around 400-500 but hopefully less.
I just want to know what the chances of settling this without any legal involvement is

If it gets further WMR pretty much always settle out of court.

 

[heavendaviss8]

I counted and this mistake happened on 18 days total
I really do hope they settle with fare payment
should i email the frauds team on monday?
@Hadders please help, looking for some guidance here

 

[AlterEgo]

Don’t email or do anything if or until you are contacted. It is not in your interest to do so.

 

[heavendaviss8]

I already emailed customer service that email though, I'm just very anxious and want this dealt with quickly

 

[AlterEgo]

Just let them contact you. Stop worrying about things, you were caught today and your email today may have gone into a giant black hole because the back office have no idea who you are and might not for a week or two.

They may write or email in the coming weeks. Until then, do nothing. There is nothing productive you can do.

 

[heavendaviss8]

Okay thank you for helping. I did add the notice number in the email as well though. But I won't do anything until contacted now

 

[MotCO]

I appreciate that you are anxious, but there really isn't anything you can do right now, except to start saving. The train company or its agents will contact you and ask you for your version of the events, but this can take a few weeks. Provided you engage positively with them, are truthful, and respond in a timely manner, you should be able to get an out of Court settlement.

Before you respond to any letter, feel free to post a draft on this forum, and members will offer advice on its content and presentation.

 

[heavendaviss8]

I just dont know if she took down the address properly I'm afraid that they might not go to the correct address. Maybe I will follow up in 2 weeks to check if any letters have been sent. Is customer service a good way to check this?

 

[AlterEgo]

I just dont know if she took down the address properly I'm afraid that they might not go to the correct address. Maybe I will follow up in 2 weeks to check if any letters have been sent. Is customer service a good way to check this?

No. Customer Services don’t deal with prosecution or revenue matters.

Unless you gave the wrong details, there is nothing you can do except trust they were recorded properly.

Do not follow this up unless or until you are contacted. This will waste your time and it is not in your interests to badger a company whom you owe money to, and might even be prosecuted for underpaying your fares. Learn to sit still and say nothing, and please stop worrying about this.

 

[heavendaviss8]

I dont think I gave her the entire address I was panicking I only gave her the street name and post code which means those letters will not be reaching me

 

[MotCO]

I dont think I gave her the entire address I was panicking I only gave her the street name and post code which means those letters will not be reaching me

Did she ask for any evidence to support your address, e.g. driving licence? In which case, the chances are that she will have the right address. If you gave street name and post code, she must have asked for house number. These three facts should enable post to get to you.

 

[AlterEgo]

I dont think I gave her the entire address I was panicking I only gave her the street name and post code which means those letters will not be reaching me

I don’t think an inspector would just accept a street name, they’d ask for the full address if that’s all they had.

Did you give the wrong details or not?

 

[heavendaviss8]

Just my BRP but no building name

 

[heavendaviss8]

She asked me to type the address but Im only just realising that I wrote just the street name because I was panicking so much and then she asked for a house number but she did not get my building name. She did take a look at my BRP though

 

[Cuthbert]

No. Customer Services don’t deal with prosecution or revenue matters.

They will forward any correspondence to the relevant department.

But as you say that does nothing without any references. And even if they have that it will be put in a "to do" pile while they work other cases.

 

[heavendaviss8]

Got a reply to email, its a standard response (attached below if anyone is interested). So I went on the IRCAS website --> WMR --> prosecution case --> put my notice number and there is a payment of only £202 (thought investigation would lead to about £432 as I calculated). Not sure how they got to this number but I have not had any letters arrive, they did not update the address I sent either. I am paying it but should I assume this case is sorted and closed now?

Thank you for contacting us.

Passengers using our service should present a valid ticket for inspection on request of rail staff. Passengers who are unable to present a valid ticket for their journey may be liable for a Penalty Fare or may be interviewed under caution if intent to avoid payment is suspected. If the latter, an interview under caution is prepared in statement form and submitted for consideration for prosecution for which there is no appeal process. Depending on the circumstances of each case (whether it be a penalty fare or interview under caution) where a valid ticket has not been produced it may be possible to agree an out of court settlement before prosecution.

Penalty Fares are higher-priced fares payable by passengers who:

· Do not have a valid ticket and started their journey at a station with ticket retail facilities

· Are unable to show the appropriate Railcard for their discounted ticket

· Travel on a child discounted ticket, but are aged 16 or over

· Travel beyond the destination on the ticket.

Penalty Fares are issued in accordance with The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018, as amended by The Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022. Penalty Fares are £100, plus the price of the full single fare applicable to the intended destination on that train. If the Penalty Fare is paid within 21 days, it will reduce to £50, plus the price of the full single fare applicable.

You are entitled to appeal against the Penalty Fare. You must do this within 21 days from the day following the date of issue, as provided by the Regulations. You must make your appeal online (Appeals Service – Independent Transparent Fair (appealservice.co.uk) or by post: Appeals Service, Regus Building 1000, Lakeside North Harbour, Portsmouth, PO6 3EZ.

Include in your appeal as many of the following:

· A copy of your Penalty Fare notice

· Why you could not produce a valid ticket or authority to travel when requested

· Where you started your rail journey

· The time and date you were travelling

· Any other salient information or documentation relevant to your appeal, i.e., tickets, Railcard, Oyster record.

Appeals are handled by a third party as per the Regulations. We are not permitted to consider appeals for Penalty Fares we have issued.

Our agent IRCAS processes Penalty Fare collection on our behalf. You can make payment online via the link:

https://www.ircas.co.uk/MakePayment. Alternatively, you can pay over the phone by calling 0870 067 9983, or send payment by post to IRCAS, Regus Building 1000, Lakeside North Harbour, Portsmouth, PO6 3EZ.

Also contact IRCAS if you have lost your Penalty Fare Notice, or you are experiencing financial difficulties and are not in a position to settle your balance in full: https://www.ircas.co.uk/Home/ContactUs




Kind regards,
Customer Relations Advisor