Margate to London (cry for) help!

[myfarelady]

Hi, appreciate any help you can give please.

Thank you so so much in advance and feel free to private message any advice if you prefer that way ☺️ I will PROTECT sacred secrets and will deliver a bottle of something delicious to any helpful neighbours!

Newly commuting from Margate to London and back for work and very traumatised (at the cost) and a bit confused with conflicting advice / anecdotes / guidance etc!

I’ll be going in once or twice a week max, office is by Moorgate and I ideally need to start at 9AM-10AM.

Can I really go all the way to stations listed here: "https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/?" for e.g. Liverpool St., Moorgate, Cannon Street?

I’ll be sticking to paper tickets always, is it a case of showing this to someone / inserting it into the machine and you get through? Is this something widely accepted or a bit of a pain that you need to explain / defend?

My office is around Moorgate so this would really help me, would ideally not have to pay even more in London...I walked from St Pancras today out of spite and that took an hour, was lovely but hoping there’s a better way?!

Does anyone have any tips / loopholes they can share?

I am:
- open to a bit of inconvenience (for e.g. a short drive to a different starting station in the morning or a walk to my office on the London side, not the fastest route) for substantial savings,
- happy to have a bit agg from inspectors, staff etc. and need to defend / explain (provided the position is pretty solid as opposed to a wild take on a very subjective rule)
- take a bit of risk / take a chance sometimes (if for e.g. the outcome of it not working was that you would just need to get a ticket, they couldn't prove you were doing anything against the rules, you may get a fine but overall it could be worth taking that from time to time in the grand scheme)

I’ll be going in once or twice a week max, office is by Moorgate. I ideally need to start at 9AM, but I could also do a little later like by 10.30AM if the saving was huge. Can anyone confirm the truth for me please on Off-peak/Peak from Margate into London, is it about when you buy the ticket or when it arrives into London?

Open to getting a Season ticket if it would suit my situation, is splitting these still a viable option and does anyone have any good recommendations for this route?

This morning's ticket is below. I am hoping to be able to stay with friends sometimes the night before or the night after work and wanted flexibility / to try some things so got an open today.

CHEERS,

Gemma

 

[redreni]

Generally speaking, if a London Terminals ticket is valid to go to London Bridge via Abbey Wood then in my view it will also be valid to change at Abbey Wood and go to Liverpool Street on the Elizabeth Line as this is within 3 miles of the shortest route, although journey planners will not show this. A single or return from Margate to London Terminals is valid to go that way (change at Rainham for Thameslink to Abbey Wood). The Elizabeth Line gatelines at Liverpool Street will not automatically accept London Terminals tickets, but staff should let you through.

On a similar basis, if a London Terminals ticket is valid to go to St Pancras International via Stratford International, then it will also be valid to change at Stratford International, walk to Stratford and continue on to Liverpool Street via Greater Anglia, the Elizabeth Line or (under interavailability rules) on the Central Line. This should be fairly uncontroversial although staff don't always know the rules - the following thread refers:
Gravesend to London Liverpool Street routes - proof for barrier staff?

 

[soil]

you've bought the wrong ticket there, i suspect.

That's an anytime return, at £113.60. That's basically the same cost as two peak singles, which are £57.20 each

An anytime day return is £99.60

In addition, you can buy 'advance' tickets the night before. These can make a small saving on the £57.20, e.g., £44.50 the day before from Margate to St P at7:30am or whatever. Further in advance you can save more. Advances going back in the evening purchased the day before may be around £25.

Further, heading back the fares are different which means that the anytime day return might be wrong: St Pancras to Margate is £34.90 after 10am, single, "not via ashford" (the via ashford trains are £43.60). You can buy this immediately before boarding.

Finally there's an off-peak day return not via ashford, which gets you there for 10:08 for £48.60, return any time.

 

[Haywain]

You can also buy a railcard which can get a third off the fares back from London. If you don't qualify for an age related railcard then a Network Railcard will get the discount off walk-up fares.

 

[myfarelady]

you've bought the wrong ticket there, i suspect.

That's an anytime return, at £113.60. That's basically the same cost as two peak singles, which are £57.20 each

An anytime day return is £99.60

In addition, you can buy 'advance' tickets the night before. These can make a small saving on the £57.20, e.g., £44.50 the day before from Margate to St P at7:30am or whatever. Further in advance you can save more. Advances going back in the evening purchased the day before may be around £25.

Further, heading back the fares are different which means that the anytime day return might be wrong: St Pancras to Margate is £34.90 after 10am, single, "not via ashford" (the via ashford trains are £43.60. You can buy this immediately before boarding.

Finally there's an off-peak day return not via ashford, which gets you there for 10:08 for £48.60, return any time.

Hi Soil, THANK YOU!
Amazing, so helpful I will look into the advanced tickets and the one that gets in after 10 (although not ideal as I really should start at 9...would help so much to do this sometimes!).
The open return valid for a month today was intentional (as mentioned in my post, perhaps not clearly enough though). I am often able to do some of the legs by car at times or stay with friends after work / the night before sometimes (wanted flexibility with this one).
Cheers, G

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2025 ==

You can also buy a railcard which can get a third off the fares back from London. If you don't qualify for an age related railcard then a Network Railcard will get the discount off walk-up fares.

Thank you - I have a Network Railcard which is great but it doesn't help me for Peak unfortunately

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2025 ==

I must look into how it can help more though - for e.g. if I only use it for a single fare on the way back like you say...rather than always thinking its best to buy a return ticket. Perhaps I have just wrongly assumed it can't help me much if there's a journey into London at peak time involved!
Cheers,
G

You can also buy a railcard which can get a third off the fares back from London. If you don't qualify for an age related railcard then a Network Railcard will get the discount off walk-up fares.

 

[myfarelady]

Generally speaking, if a London Terminals ticket is valid to go to London Bridge via Abbey Wood then in my view it will also be valid to change at Abbey Wood and go to Liverpool Street on the Elizabeth Line as this is within 3 miles of the shortest route, although journey planners will not show this. A single or return from Margate to London Terminals is valid to go that way (change at Rainham for Thameslink to Abbey Wood). The Elizabeth Line gatelines at Liverpool Street will not automatically accept London Terminals tickets, but staff should let you through.

On a similar basis, if a London Terminals ticket is valid to go to St Pancras International via Stratford International, then it will also be valid to change at Stratford International, walk to Stratford and continue on to Liverpool Street via Greater Anglia, the Elizabeth Line or (under interavailability rules) on the Central Line. This should be fairly uncontroversial although staff don't always know the rules - the following thread refers:
Gravesend to London Liverpool Street routes - proof for barrier staff?

This is really helpful - thank you so much! All nice and unclear by the sounds of it then :/
Wondering if I could get the Thameslink from St. Pancras International then tube to Liverpool St. station...wondering if that might be easier (in terms of Tfl barrier staff) than leaving Stratford International station to get to Stratford train/tube station.
Thanks again, really appreciate it.

 

[soil]

Hi Soil, THANK YOU!
Amazing, so helpful I will look into the advanced tickets and the one that gets in after 10 (although not ideal as I really should start at 9...would help so much to do this sometimes!).
The open return valid for a month today was intentional (as mentioned in my post, perhaps not clearly enough though). I am often able to do some of the legs by car at times or stay with friends after work / the night before sometimes (wanted flexibility with this one).
Cheers, G

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2025 ==


Thank you - I have a Network Railcard which is great but it doesn't help me for Peak unfortunately

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2025 ==

I must look into how it can help more though - for e.g. if I only use it for a single fare on the way back like you say...rather than always thinking its best to buy a return ticket. Perhaps I have just wrongly assumed it can't help me much if there's a journey into London at peak time involved!
Cheers,
G

right but you would never ever buy that ticket, because you've paid 99% of the full price of a peak morning ticket to London twice, whereas, as discussed, you can get a cheap single going back, and save 1/3 on it as well with your Network card.

so there is no flexibility being gained compared to just the walk-up single and then returning with a walk up single.

probably worth noting also the carnet, which is £485 for 8 days in 4 weeks.

 

[myfarelady]

right but you would never ever buy that ticket, because you've paid 99% of the full price of a peak morning ticket to London twice, whereas, as discussed, you can get a cheap single going back, and save 1/3 on it as well with your Network card.

so there is no flexibility being gained compared to just the walk-up single and then returning with a walk up single.

probably worth noting also the carnet, which is £485 for 8 days in 4 weeks.

OMG so true - thank you for helping me! I need to reassess everything I thought I knew clearly LOL. Thank you soil

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Can anyone confirm the truth for me please on Off-peak/Peak from Margate into London, is it about when you buy the ticket or when it arrives into London?

Invariably it's when you arrive in London.

If you look at the top of this site, there's a link to the forum's ticketing site. Experiment with times, destinations and options to see what might work. It will also tell you about fixed time (Advance) tickets and how they compare to flexible ones (Anytime and Off Peak). You can also test it on two singles versus a return (day or period) and whether a Network railcard makes any difference.

The fastest route and quite posssibly the most expensive is likely to be going to be via HS1 to St Pancras, but you could alight at Stratford if that works for the London destination.

 

[myfarelady]

Invariably it's when you arrive in London.

If you look at the top of this site, there's a link to the forum's ticketing site. Experiment with times, destinations and options to see what might work. It will also tell you about fixed time (Advance) tickets and how they compare to flexible ones (Anytime and Off Peak). You can also test it on two singles versus a return (day or period) and whether a Network railcard makes any difference.

The fastest route and quite posssibly the most expensive is likely to be going to be via HS1 to St Pancras, but you could alight at Stratford if that works for the London destination.

Thank you so much - I only found this site today, so helpful. Cheers for pointing that out, I will get experimenting!

 

[soil]

Invariably it's when you arrive in London.

no, that's not the case at all.

The fares can be seen at

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks, at face value with no fees. Every British rail fare shown, railcard discounts included.

www.brfares.com

There are several codes:

4A for the three routes for off-peak (period) returns. This means, in effect:

* depart 0930 or later, return any time

C4 for the two HS1-routed off peak day returns (and the off-peak HS upgrade day return), which are "train cannot arrive in London before 1000"

B8 for the "not on HS1' off-peak day return, which is "depart 0745 or later"

F5 for all the "not on hs1" an "plus hs" super off peak day singles/returns, which means "depart 0945 or later"

F4 for the "not via ashford" super off peak day single/return/return upgrade, which normally means "depart 1000 or later", but has exceptions, allowing the 0947 from Margate

The OP can therefore buy the off-peak day return "not on hs1", for £44.50, for the 0746 (or later) from Margate, which arrives St P at 0918,and then buy the anytime highspeed day return upgrade for £15 (meaning that the ticket is now valid on hs1), for a total of £59.50 return. The upgrade ticket is not available online, only at the TVM or ticket office.

Note that for official purposes, it would be best to use the national rail website for confirming validity, as brfares is not an official source:

Ticket Restriction B8 | National Rail

Ticket restriction details B8. Each train ticket restriction code states when and/or on what train(s) the ticket is not valid and the days and/or dates that these restrictions apply.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Watershed]

Welcome to the forum!

Firstly, answering your question about valid routes (I'll make another post regarding the cheapest tickets).

There are three routes of walk-up (Anytime/Off-Peak) fares available from Margate to London Terminals. From most to least expensive, they are:

• "Plus High Speed" - this is valid on all the normal routes, including High Speed services into St Pancras, either via Herne Bay or Ashford
• "not via Ashford", sometimes also shown as "via Herne Bay" - this is valid on all the normal routes, including HS1, except via Ashford
• "not valid on HS1" - this is valid either via Herne Bay or Ashford, but you can't use HS1 services between Ashford/Gravesend and Stratford Int/St Pancras. You can still use the St Pancras trains where they run beyond HS1, e.g. between Margate and Ashford, or Margate and Gravesend.

The way it works is that you can travel to any station designated as a London Terminal (the list is in the link you posted), provided you can reach it (on National Rail services only) using what's known as a permitted route. Permitted routes are a very complex subject which we can explain in more detail if you're interested. Once you reach a London Terminal, such as London Bridge, you can continue on to another adjacent London Terminal (such as Cannon Street), but you can't continue beyond the last London Terminal you reach.

Farringdon isn't a London Terminal, so you normally can't travel via (or to) there on a London Terminals ticket - this 'divides' up the London Terminals on the north and south sides of London.

All of the above fares are therefore valid into Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, Waterloo East, Cannon Street, London Bridge, Blackfriars or City Thameslink coming from the south (the non-high speed route). I wouldn't expect any of those to be controversial.

The "Plus High Speed" and "not via Ashford" routed fares are additionally valid into St Pancras on HS1 as you'd expect, as well as Liverpool Street changing at Stratford International and Stratford as @redreni says. Additionally, there is a specific easement to the above Farringdon rule (also documented on the link you posted) which states that you can use a London Terminals ticket, if it has the route "Plus High Speed", on Thameslink services between St Pancras and London Bridge/Elephant & Castle (via Farringdon, City Thameslink and Blackfriars).

All of the above fares would also be contractually valid into Liverpool Street on the Elizabeth line from Abbey Wood (or Stratford for the HS1 fares), but you may encounter hassle at the gateline as described by @redreni above. TfL have made up their own policy whereby they claim that you need a ticket valid on the Underground in order to use the Elizabeth line in the section between Abbey Wood/Stratford and Paddington; they effectively pretend it's an Underground line (which it's not - it's part of the National Rail network).

The TfL policy has no basis in the National Rail Conditions of Travel. 'Complying' with it would mean using Oyster/contactless PAYG, or buying a Travelcard or single/return to the relevant Underground Zones, which would be 1-4 in the case of Abbey Wood to Liverpool Street. Of course, TfL say the opposite when it comes to taking the Elizabeth line to Heathrow - they want to have their cake and eat it!

 

[30907]

Purely in terms of journey time, train to Cannon St and 14min walk (Googlemaps to Moorgate station) is 2hr 5min; this can only be beaten by HS1 (NRE exaggerates the time to change stations at Stratford by a few minutes IMO).

 

[myfarelady]

no, that's not the case at all.

The fares can be seen at

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks, at face value with no fees. Every British rail fare shown, railcard discounts included.

www.brfares.com

There are several codes:

4A for the three routes for off-peak (period) returns. This means, in effect:

* depart 0930 or later, return any time

C4 for the two HS1-routed off peak day returns (and the off-peak HS upgrade day return), which are "train cannot arrive in London before 1000"

B8 for the "not on HS1' off-peak day return, which is "depart 0745 or later"

F5 for all the "not on hs1" an "plus hs" super off peak day singles/returns, which means "depart 0945 or later"

F4 for the "not via ashford" super off peak day single/return/return upgrade, which normally means "depart 1000 or later", but has exceptions, allowing the 0947 from Margate

The OP can therefore buy the off-peak day return "not on hs1", for £44.50, for the 0746 (or later) from Margate, which arrives St P at 0918,and then buy the anytime highspeed day return upgrade for £15 (meaning that the ticket is now valid on hs1), for a total of £59.50 return. The upgrade ticket is not available online, only at the TVM or ticket office.

Note that for official purposes, it would be best to use the national rail website for confirming validity, as brfares is not an official source:

Ticket Restriction B8 | National Rail

Ticket restriction details B8. Each train ticket restriction code states when and/or on what train(s) the ticket is not valid and the days and/or dates that these restrictions apply.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Thank you so much for all this info! Incredibly sound and helpful, will take a good read through it all. Thank you ☺️

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2025 ==

Purely in terms of journey time, train to Cannon St and 14min walk (Googlemaps to Moorgate station) is 2hr 5min; this can only be beaten by HS1 (NRE exaggerates the time to change stations at Stratford by a few minutes IMO).

Thanks so much for your time in replying to help me! Just so I am sure, what journey are you suggesting? As that sounds amazing! Thanks again and for your patience ☺️

 

[Watershed]

Secondly, answering your question about the cheapest fares.

This is again quite complicated. If you're prepared to be in the office by 10:00 or even 10:30, this makes your journey a lot cheaper. This is because you can then take advantage of Off-Peak fares for part (or all) of your journey. In many cases it's cheaper to buy a combination of tickets - "split tickets". This is a perfectly legal and common practice which many websites will suggest automatically.

The most sensible options I can find, that involve walk-up fares, are as follows. I've ranked these from cheapest (and least convenient/flexible) to most expensive (and most convenient):

• £49.20 - dep 07:24, arr 10:08 or 10:12 at Cannon Street, 2 changes - also see here*: Take the 07:24 from Margate to Victoria as far as Rainham (Kent) and change there for the Thameslink service to Luton which leaves from the adjacent platform 5 minutes later. Change at London Bridge onto the next Cannon Street service; the earliest connection (though unofficial) you'll likely make is the 10:02 arriving at 10:08. The first official connection is the 10:08 arriving at 10:12, which you could also change onto at Dartford (where that train starts) if you prefer.
  • Your tickets for this would be a combination of split tickets:
    • Margate to Herne Bay Anytime Day Return
    • Herne Bay to Faversham Anytime Day Return
    • Faversham to Rochester Anytime Day Return
    • Rochester to London Terminals Off-Peak Day Return, route "not via HS1". This has restriction code C5, so it's valid to arrive into London Terminals from 09:45.
  • This would allow you to return on any services from Cannon Street in the evening.

• £62.00 - dep 07:24, arr 09:36 at Cannon Street, 1 change - also see here*: Take the 07:24 from Margate to Victoria as far as Gillingham (Kent) and change there for the Southeastern service to Cannon Street which leaves from the adjacent platform 10 minutes later.
  • Your tickets for this would be a combination of split tickets. This would assume that you have a Network Railcard, costing £35 per year, to get a 1/3 discount on the last ticket:
    • Margate to Herne Bay Anytime Day Return
    • Herne Bay to Faversham Anytime Day Return
    • Faversham to Rainham (Kent) Anytime Day Return
    • Rainham (Kent) to London Terminals Anytime Day Single, route "not via HS1".
    • London Terminals to Rainham (Kent) Super Off-Peak Day Single, route "not via HS1". This has restriction code F4, so it's valid for trains that depart after 10:00 (with a few easements which aren't relevant here), and has no evening peak restrictions.
  • This would allow you to return on any services from Cannon Street in the evening.

• £71.80 - dep 07:52, nominally arr 10:07 at Moorgate but realistically closer to 09:55, 1 change - also see here*: Take the 07:52 from Margate all the way to St Pancras and change there for the Northern line to Moorgate. Alternatively change at Stratford International for Stratford where you can take Greater Anglia/Central line/Elizabeth line services to Liverpool Street (if you take the Elizabeth line, you can exit via Moorgate at the western end of the train). If you did the Stratford 'shuffle', a ticket to London Terminals would suffice as mentioned in my earlier post above.
  • Your tickets for this would be a combination of split tickets. This would assume that you have a Network Railcard, costing £35 per year, to get a 1/3 discount on the last ticket:
    • Margate to Herne Bay Anytime Day Return
    • Herne Bay to Faversham Anytime Day Return
    • Faversham to Gravesend Anytime Day Return
    • Gravesend to London Underground Zone 1 Anytime Day Single, route "Plus High Speed".
    • London Underground Zone 1 to Gravesend Anytime Day Single, route "Plus High Speed". There isn't an Off-Peak version of this fare.
  • This would allow you to return on any services from Cannon Street, or on the Underground/Elizabeth line/GA and then HS1 from St Pancras or Stratford, in the evening.

When buying any of the above through the forum's ticketing site (or TrainSplit, which is the underlying retailer), you'll pay a fee equivalent to 15% of the saving you make by splitting. There are other retailers out there offering split tickets that don't charge such fees (e.g. Railsmartr), although none of them would suggest the multiple splits which would be required to get those prices. If you want to avoid the fee whilst still supporting the forum you can search for each ticket individually and add it to your basket.

Advance tickets do make things quite a bit cheaper depending on the exact train you travel on - but there is no guarantee they will be available on any particular train or at all when you book. You will need to book several days or weeks ahead to get the best price and availability. They also tie you to one specific train/itinerary - that said, you can amend your Advance to a different train, provided you do so before the scheduled departure time.

When changing an Advance, you'll be charged the difference in fare to the cheapest fare available on your new train/itinerary, plus any admin fee charged by your chosen ticket site (some waive this, such as Railsmartr and CrossCountry, but most charge the maximum permitted fee of £10). If you're open to Advance tickets, you'll find some good options (including split tickets) on the forum's ticketing site.

*In each case, you'll need to use the Filters button on the top right (in desktop view), select "Walk-ups only", and then click on the relevant journey to see the details.

 

[soil]

Thanks so much for your time in replying to help me! Just so I am sure, what journey are you suggesting? As that sounds amazing! Thanks again and for your patience ☺️

this is the Ramsgate to Cannon Street service, which departs at 0615 , 0644, 0716 only. Taking 1 hr 50-1hr 54 minutes,and also calling at London Bridge.

Apart from these, the slow trains terminate at Victoria, which means that if you don't take one of those specific departures, it would take quite a bit longer. If you choose 'avoid stratford international', you should find the itineraries into Cannon Street.

These trains can be made a bit cheaper splitting at Herne Bay and Faversham. However, it's still £44.70 single, which is a bit pricey IMO.

 

[myfarelady]

Secondly, answering your question about the cheapest fares.

This is again quite complicated. If you're prepared to be in the office by 10:00 or even 10:30, this makes your journey a lot cheaper. This is because you can then take advantage of Off-Peak fares for part (or all) of your journey. In many cases it's cheaper to buy a combination of tickets - "split tickets". This is a perfectly legal and common practice which many websites will suggest automatically.

The most sensible options I can find, that involve walk-up fares, are as follows. I've ranked these from cheapest (and least convenient/flexible) to most expensive (and most convenient):

• £49.20 - dep 07:24, arr 10:08 or 10:12 at Cannon Street, 2 changes - also see here*: Take the 07:24 from Margate to Victoria as far as Rainham (Kent) and change there for the Thameslink service to Luton which leaves from the adjacent platform 5 minutes later. Change at London Bridge onto the next Cannon Street service; the earliest connection (though unofficial) you'll likely make is the 10:02 arriving at 10:08. The first official connection is the 10:08 arriving at 10:12, which you could also change onto at Dartford (where that train starts) if you prefer.
  • Your tickets for this would be a combination of split tickets:
    • Margate to Herne Bay Anytime Day Return
    • Herne Bay to Faversham Anytime Day Return
    • Faversham to Rochester Anytime Day Return
    • Rochester to London Terminals Off-Peak Day Return, route "not via HS1". This has restriction code C5, so it's valid to arrive into London Terminals from 09:45.
  • This would allow you to return on any services from Cannon Street in the evening.

• £62.00 - dep 07:24, arr 09:36 at Cannon Street, 1 change - also see here*: Take the 07:24 from Margate to Victoria as far as Gillingham (Kent) and change there for the Southeastern service to Cannon Street which leaves from the adjacent platform 10 minutes later.
  • Your tickets for this would be a combination of split tickets. This would assume that you have a Network Railcard, costing £35 per year, to get a 1/3 discount on the last ticket:
    • Margate to Herne Bay Anytime Day Return
    • Herne Bay to Faversham Anytime Day Return
    • Faversham to Rainham (Kent) Anytime Day Return
    • Rainham (Kent) to London Terminals Anytime Day Single, route "not via HS1".
    • London Terminals to Rainham (Kent) Super Off-Peak Day Single, route "not via HS1". This has restriction code F4, so it's valid for trains that depart after 10:00 (with a few easements which aren't relevant here), and has no evening peak restrictions.
  • This would allow you to return on any services from Cannon Street in the evening.

• £71.80 - dep 07:52, nominally arr 10:07 at Moorgate but realistically closer to 09:55, 1 change - also see here*: Take the 07:52 from Margate all the way to St Pancras and change there for the Northern line to Moorgate. Alternatively change at Stratford International for Stratford where you can take Greater Anglia/Central line/Elizabeth line services to Liverpool Street (if you take the Elizabeth line, you can exit via Moorgate at the western end of the train). If you did the Stratford 'shuffle', a ticket to London Terminals would suffice as mentioned in my earlier post above.
  • Your tickets for this would be a combination of split tickets. This would assume that you have a Network Railcard, costing £35 per year, to get a 1/3 discount on the last ticket:
    • Margate to Herne Bay Anytime Day Return
    • Herne Bay to Faversham Anytime Day Return
    • Faversham to Gravesend Anytime Day Return
    • Gravesend to London Underground Zone 1 Anytime Day Single, route "Plus High Speed".
    • London Underground Zone 1 to Gravesend Anytime Day Single, route "Plus High Speed". There isn't an Off-Peak version of this fare.
  • This would allow you to return on any services from Cannon Street, or on the Underground/Elizabeth line/GA and then HS1 from St Pancras or Stratford, in the evening.

When buying any of the above through the forum's ticketing site (or TrainSplit, which is the underlying retailer), you'll pay a fee equivalent to 15% of the saving you make by splitting. There are other retailers out there offering split tickets that don't charge such fees (e.g. Railsmartr), although none of them would suggest the multiple splits which would be required to get those prices. If you want to avoid the fee whilst still supporting the forum you can search for each ticket individually and add it to your basket.

Advance tickets do make things quite a bit cheaper depending on the exact train you travel on - but there is no guarantee they will be available on any particular train or at all when you book. You will need to book several days or weeks ahead to get the best price and availability. They also tie you to one specific train/itinerary - that said, you can amend your Advance to a different train, provided you do so before the scheduled departure time.

When changing an Advance, you'll be charged the difference in fare to the cheapest fare available on your new train/itinerary, plus any admin fee charged by your chosen ticket site (some waive this, such as Railsmartr and CrossCountry, but most charge the maximum permitted fee of £10). If you're open to Advance tickets, you'll find some good options (including split tickets) on the forum's ticketing site.

*In each case, you'll need to use the Filters button on the top right (in desktop view), select "Walk-ups only", and then click on the relevant journey to see the details.

This is amazing, thank you! So helpful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2025 ==

this is the Ramsgate to Cannon Street service, which departs at 0615 , 0644, 0716 only. Taking 1 hr 50-1hr 54 minutes,and also calling at London Bridge.

Apart from these, the slow trains terminate at Victoria, which means that if you don't take one of those specific departures, it would take quite a bit longer. If you choose 'avoid stratford international', you should find the itineraries into Cannon Street.

These trains can be made a bit cheaper splitting at Herne Bay and Faversham. However, it's still £44.70 single, which is a bit pricey IMO.

Good to know...thank you so much! This is so helpful

 

[Watershed]

This is amazing, thank you! So helpful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2025 ==


Good to know...thank you so much! This is so helpful

No problem at all. It's worth noting that it's only the first option that would require you to arrive into London later (at London Terminals from 09:45 onwards).

The second and third options don't have any time restrictions that are relevant to your commute. Both would be valid for the direct morning peak trains from Margate to Cannon Street, for example. The difference between the second and third options is just whether you can use HS1 or not.

Also, where I've stated that you can return from Cannon Street, you could also travel from Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, Waterloo East, London Bridge, Blackfriars or City Thameslink if any of those suited you better. You'd have to pay separately (or get a ticket to Underground Zone 1) if you wanted to use the Underground, though.

 

[drueberflug]

The cheapest thing I could quickly find is an Off-Peak Day Travelcard, which, when avoiding HS1 services, isn't that expensive and far cheaper for two days than to buy a whole week's worth of a Season Travelcard. Travelcards are also valid on the Underground (and some other modes of transportation), so you could travel from e.g. St Pancras to Moorgate by bus, train or tube.

You may also want to look at Carnet fares, but I cannot give any advice to that as I barely know anything about them. They seem to not work on the Tube.

You can find a table with some fares that may be useful to you below.
(Note that fares not including transport within London have for most parts been removed from that table because the only National Rail services at Moorgate are useless for your journey)

CARNET SEASON FARES
Flexi Season FL1​	Route PLUS HIGH SPEED​	Validity 8 days within 28 DAYS​	Adult £485.90​	​	​
​ Ticket issued to: LONDON TERMINALS​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
Flexi Season FL1​	Route NOT VALID ON HS1​	Validity 8 days within 28 DAYS​	Adult £405.80​	​	​
​ Ticket issued to: LONDON TERMINALS​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
SEASON FARES
TRAVELCARD 7DS 7TS​	Route PLUS HIGH SPEED​	Validity 7 days​	Adult £237.50​	Child £118.75​	​
​ ​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
TRAVELCARD 7DS 7TS​	Route NOT VALID ON HS1​	Validity 7 days​	Adult £202.40​	Child £101.20​	​
​ ​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
TRAVELCARD FARES
ANYTIME DAY TC ADT​	Route PLUS HIGH SPEED​	Validity ON DATE SHOWN​	Adult £110.70​	Child £55.35​	​
​ ​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
ANYTIME DAY TC ADT​	Route NOT VALID ON HS1​	Validity ON DATE SHOWN​	Adult £94.80​	Child £47.40​	​
​ ​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
OFF-PEAK TCDSTD ODT​	Route PLUS HIGH SPEED​	Validity ON DATE SHOWN Restrictions C4 OFF-PEAK​	Adult £63.30​	Child £31.65​	​
​ ​ Outward & Return:​ VALID BY TRAINS DUE IN LDN AT/AFTER 1000 M-F​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
OFF-PEAK TCDSTD ODT​	Route NOT VIA ASHFORD​	Validity ON DATE SHOWN Restrictions C4 OFF-PEAK​	Adult £55.90​	Child £27.95​	​
​ ​ Outward & Return:​ VALID BY TRAINS DUE IN LDN AT/AFTER 1000 M-F​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​
OFF-PEAK TCDSTD ODT​	Route NOT VALID ON HS1​	Validity ON DATE SHOWN Restrictions B8 OFF-PEAK​	Adult £55.30​	Child £27.65​	​
​ ​ Outward:​ VALID AFTER 0744 MON-FRI​ Return:​ BY ANY TRAIN​ Valid for unlimited travel in London Zones 1–6​ Fare Setter: LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY​

 

[Watershed]

Yes, if the OP can commit to travelling at least 8 days within every 4 week period (equivalent to an average of 2 return journeys a week), they would probably be best off with a Flexi Season. If they go for the non-HS1 version which could be used on the direct trains to/from Cannon Street, it would work out as £50.73 per day which is quite competitive given the complete flexibility on offer. The "Plus High Speed" version equates to £60.74 per day, although it should be possible to pay the High Speed upgrade of £8.40 each way onboard the train instead, if you're in a hurry.

As @drueberflug says, Flexi Seasons are usually only available for fares that aren't valid on the Underground. However, from a contractual perspective, a "Plus High Speed" or "not via HS1" Flexi Season would be valid on the Elizabeth line from Abbey Wood to Liverpool Street, and a "Plus High Speed" Flexi Season would additionally be valid on the Central or Elizabeth line from Stratford to Liverpool Street.

TfL don't seem to like the fact that there are some barcoded or non-zonal smartcard tickets, such as the above Flexi Seasons, that are valid on their services. So I imagine you would have a frustrating experience trying to get through the barriers at Liverpool Street (or Moorgate, if exiting from the western end of an Elizabeth line train at Liverpool Street).

 

[myfarelady]

The cheapest thing I could quickly find is an Off-Peak Day Travelcard, which, when avoiding HS1 services, isn't that expensive and far cheaper for two days than to buy a whole week's worth of a Season Travelcard. Travelcards are also valid on the Underground (and some other modes of transportation), so you could travel from e.g. St Pancras to Moorgate by bus, train or tube.

You may also want to look at Carnet fares, but I cannot give any advice to that as I barely know anything about them. They seem to not work on the Tube.

You can find a table with some fares that may be useful to you below.
(Note that fares not including transport within London have for most parts been removed from that table because the only National Rail services at Moorgate are useless for your journey)

Thank you so much I’ll check this out!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2025 ==

Yes, if the OP can commit to travelling at least 8 days within every 4 week period (equivalent to an average of 2 return journeys a week), they would probably be best off with a Flexi Season. If they go for the non-HS1 version which could be used on the direct trains to/from Cannon Street, it would work out as £50.73 per day which is quite competitive given the complete flexibility on offer. The "Plus High Speed" version equates to £60.74 per day, although it should be possible to pay the High Speed upgrade of £8.40 each way onboard the train instead, if you're in a hurry.

As @drueberflug says, Flexi Seasons are usually only available for fares that aren't valid on the Underground. However, from a contractual perspective, a "Plus High Speed" or "not via HS1" Flexi Season would be valid on the Elizabeth line from Abbey Wood to Liverpool Street, and a "Plus High Speed" Flexi Season would additionally be valid on the Central or Elizabeth line from Stratford to Liverpool Street.

TfL don't seem to like the fact that there are some barcoded or non-zonal smartcard tickets, such as the above Flexi Seasons, that are valid on their services. So I imagine you would have a frustrating experience trying to get through the barriers at Liverpool Street (or Moorgate, if exiting from the western end of an Elizabeth line train at Liverpool Street).

Amazing, appreciate this so much!

 

[redreni]

Just a side note on @Watershed 's very informative Option 1, if you were to remain on the train you would join at Rainham, that arrives at City Thameslink at 10:06. City Thameslink is the limit of validity for a 'not HS1' London Terminals ticket on that route. By my reckoning the walk from the Holborn Viaduct exit of City Thameslink to Moorgate is about 6 minutes more than the walk from Cannon Street. So while it is worth changing at London Bridge and going to Cannon Street provided a convenient connection is available, it is by no means essential to do so, and staying on until City Thameslink could be a good option some mornings depending how things are running.

 

[myfarelady]

Just a side note on @Watershed 's very informative Option 1, if you were to remain on the train you would join at Rainham, that arrives at City Thameslink at 10:06. City Thameslink is the limit of validity for a 'not HS1' London Terminals ticket on that route. By my reckoning the walk from the Holborn Viaduct exit of City Thameslink to Moorgate is about 6 minutes more than the walk from Cannon Street. So while it is worth changing at London Bridge and going to Cannon Street provided a convenient connection is available, it is by no means essential to do so, and staying on until City Thameslink could be a good option some mornings depending how things are running.

I’ll definitely try this too thank you thank you so much