Penalty fare paid - can I still be prosecuted?

[20252502]

Hello!

I received a South Western Railway penalty fare notice by a ticket inspector at Waterloo station today - he didn't mention anything about escalating or referring to prosecutions, and I paid the penalty fare in full on the same day. The penalty fare was for not having a railcard as it had expired in December and I (stupidly) didn't realize. My questions are:

1. Does paying the penalty fare mean the matter is officially closed, or can it still be referred to prosecutions?

2. Will they go back and look at my ticket history and prosecute me for any other shortfalls in fares since my railcard expired in December?

Thank you!

 

[methecooldude]

Hello!

I received a South Western Railway penalty fare notice by a ticket inspector at Waterloo station today - he didn't mention anything about escalating or referring to prosecutions, and I paid the penalty fare in full on the same day. The penalty fare was for not having a railcard as it had expired in December and I (stupidly) didn't realize.

You are VERY lucky to only be issued with a penalty fare. Normally reports are made for these things to allow further investigations

My questions are:

1. Does paying the penalty fare mean the matter is officially closed, or can it still be referred to prosecutions?

Yes, the matter in this instance is closed. However there is still the potential that they can look back at previous instances of travel before December.

2. Will they go back and look at my ticket history and prosecute me for any other shortfalls in fares since my railcard expired in December?

Maybe

 

[20252502]

You are VERY lucky to only be issued with a penalty fare. Normally reports are made for these things to allow further investigations

Yes, the matter in this instance is closed. However there is still the potential that they can look back at previous instances of travel before December.

Maybe

Thank you for your reply. I would have been travelling without a valid railcard between the end of December and today - if they look at my history and realize, would they likely fine me for these instances or choose to prosecute?

 

[methecooldude]

Thank you for your reply. I would have been travelling without a valid railcard between the end of December and today - if they look at my history and realize, would they likely fine me for these instances or choose to prosecute?

Sorry, that's what I meant, between when your railcard expired and today.
SWR normally offer Out of Court Settlements, which would be the Anytime Single (return = 2 singles) for each instance + a three figure amount for admin/investigation fees

 

[20252502]

Sorry, that's what I meant, between when your railcard expired and today.
SWR normally offer Out of Court Settlements, which would be the Anytime Single (return = 2 singles) for each instance + a three figure amount for admin/investigation

Great thank you. My last question is, I gave the ticket inspector my correct address today but I only moved a few months ago - I keep seeing horror stories of letters/fines sent to the wrong address from train companies to people who then don't realise until it's too late - will they use the address I gave them today for any correspondence? Or do they obtain it elsewhere? I'm worried they will use an old address

 

[methecooldude]

Great thank you. My last question is, I gave the ticket inspector my correct address today but I only moved a few months ago - I keep seeing horror stories of letters/fines sent to the wrong address from train companies to people who then don't realise until it's too late - will they use the address I gave them today for any correspondence? Or do they obtain it elsewhere? I'm worried they will use an old address

If they wish to write to you, it will probually be on the address you gave today

 

[30907]

Sorry, that's what I meant, between when your railcard expired and today.
SWR normally offer Out of Court Settlements, which would be the Anytime Single (return = 2 singles) for each instance + a three figure amount for admin/investigation fees

However, as the OP's one provable offence was dealt with by PF, they will not be in a position to threaten prosecution, only to invite the OP to pay up. They could safely ignore that, provided they don't commit another offence meanwhile.

 

[20252502]

If they wish to write to you, it will probually be on the address you gave today

Thank you for your help!

However, as the OP's one provable offence was dealt with by PF, they will not be in a position to threaten prosecution, only to invite the OP to pay up. They could safely ignore that, provided they don't commit another offence meanwhile

Would they not be able to look back at my purchase history and marry it up with railcard data? Or will they not be able to prove that I had no railcard between December and now?

 

[Hadders]

Would they not be able to look back at my purchase history and marry it up with railcard data? Or will they not be able to prove that I had no railcard between December and now?

SWR will likely do this and write a threatening letters to you. They will happily offer an out of court settlement for these other dates.

The issue is that purchasing tickets is not illegal but using invalid tickets is illegal. The difficulty for SWR is they are unlikely to be able to prove you used the tickets which is why they will not prosecute for these additional journeys. You could ignore communication from SWR but they will send further threatening letters suggesting police, fraud etc etc. It is possible (but highly unlikely) that SWR does have evidence (eg CCTV) that links you to the invalid tickets and in my experience most people in this position just pay up to make the matter go away.

 

[20252502]

SWR will likely do this and write a threatening letters to you. They will happily offer an out of court settlement for these other dates.

The issue is that purchasing tickets is not illegal but using invalid tickets is illegal. The difficulty for SWR is they are unlikely to be able to prove you used the tickets which is why they will not prosecute for these additional journeys. You could ignore communication from SWR but they will send further threatening letters suggesting police, fraud etc etc. It is possible (but highly unlikely) that SWR does have evidence (eg CCTV) that links you to the invalid tickets and in my experience most people in this position just pay up to make the matter go away.

Thank you so much for the guidance!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2025 ==

SWR will likely do this and write a threatening letters to you. They will happily offer an out of court settlement for these other dates.

The issue is that purchasing tickets is not illegal but using invalid tickets is illegal. The difficulty for SWR is they are unlikely to be able to prove you used the tickets which is why they will not prosecute for these additional journeys. You could ignore communication from SWR but they will send further threatening letters suggesting police, fraud etc etc. It is possible (but highly unlikely) that SWR does have evidence (eg CCTV) that links you to the invalid tickets and in my experience most people in this position just pay up to make the matter go away.

Sorry one more question - will they only be able to track the tickets I purchased via trainline? Or will they be able to also track tickets I purchased from a physical station ticket machine with my debit card?

 

[Hadders]

Sorry one more question - will they only be able to track the tickets I purchased via trainline? Or will they be able to also track tickets I purchased from a physical station ticket machine with my debit card?

It's highly unlikely that tickets purchased via a station ticket machine can be traced.

 

[Snow1964]

Would they not be able to look back at my purchase history and marry it up with railcard data? Or will they not be able to prove that I had no railcard between December and now?

If the ticket where you got caught was bought at a ticket office or ticket vending machine, then they won't know about any accounts you might have with various ticketing sites.

If they took details of the ticket, photographed it, or noted down the reference numbers then could potentially look at account that the reference identifies.

If they can be bothered to do lots of sleuthing of an accounts history is something that can't be ruled out, but is not common for settled penalty. However your details might have a flag and if you come to their attention again they will come down lot harder next time.

 

[20252502]

If the ticket where you got caught was bought at a ticket office or ticket vending machine, then they won't know about any accounts you might have with various ticketing sites.

If they took details of the ticket, photographed it, or noted down the reference numbers then could potentially look at account that the reference identifies.

If they can be bothered to do lots of sleuthing of an accounts history is something that can't be ruled out, but is not common for settled penalty. However your details might have a flag and if you come to their attention again they will come down lot harder next time

Thank you - if I buy a new railcard today will they be able to see that data from the railcard company? As that would be proof that I didn't have a valid railcard over the last 3 months, and I'm not sure whether to just pay full price for the next few months as opposed to potentially flagging myself by buying a new railcard

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you - if I buy a new railcard today will they be able to see that data from the railcard company? As that would be proof that I didn't have a valid railcard over the last 3 months, and I'm not sure whether to just pay full price for the next few months as opposed to potentially flagging myself by buying a new railcard

Buying a new railcard doesn’t “flag” anything.

 

[20252502]

Buying a new railcard doesn’t “flag” anything.

Great, thanks!

 

[Snow1964]

Thank you - if I buy a new railcard today will they be able to see that data from the railcard company? As that would be proof that I didn't have a valid railcard over the last 3 months, and I'm not sure whether to just pay full price for the next few months as opposed to potentially flagging myself by buying a new railcard

You are under no obligation to buy the railcard from same retailer as your tickets.

So for example could buy a railcard at a station ticket office, but use this sites ticket facility (top of home page) to buy rail tickets. You pick the railcard held when buying tickets. (But a warning, some ticket sellers just repeat the railcard option for subsequent purchases, even if the railcard has expired)