Courts summons for fare I tried to pay for.

[Sarah Summers]

Hi,

I tapped my credit card in to pay for my usual ticket. The noise the machine made (2 beeps) caused me to check if the payment was accepted. At the time, I was unsure what the 2 beeps meant because I had only recently transitioned to using the tap in system. The message came back scrambled with hash tags and other nonsense symbols. I was unsure if my card had been taken and didn’t want to tap again in case it took payment twice. So I took photos of the machines (one wasn’t working at all and the other dirty one which I thought would show the scrambled message) to show an inspector in case my card hadn’t gone through and I was stopped. This is what then happened. I explained the situation, the inspector seemed very understanding, I showed him the photos, but didn’t realise the machine had reverted back to its original message. We even talked about that my fare would be taken at the gates at Moorgate and would be charged higher. He even talked about getting the difference of the ticket back by writing to them. A few months later I get a letter fining me and asking to pay for my ticket (which was already paid for at the other end - over what I would usually pay). I sent in my statement to which I received another response saying they had considered my statement and thought that I still need to pay a fine. I sent a letter back asking how this is my fault if the machine wasn’t working properly. The next response was a court summons. I have explained all the above in more detail, explained that the inspectors conversation with me was not fully recorded on their paperwork and emphasised again that their machine wasn’t working properly. I have also asked for video evidence of me tapping in to show that I tried to pay. I haven’t had a response or court date sent yet. Does anyone have any advice on what to do? Should I get a lawyer on my case or is this hopeless to try and fight? A criminal record will impact my work with children and helping at youth club. Many thanks

 

[Gloster]

Please post the letters that you received and sent in this thread. Please obscure your name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers.

 

[island]

Two beeps when touching in means your card wasn't accepted. So you didn't have a valid ticket.

 

[saismee]

Two beeps when touching in means your card wasn't accepted. So you didn't have a valid ticket.

Would getting the maximum fare from tapping out (and no tap in) not count as valid? Surely the customer can't be held liable if the tap in was unsuccessful but the gate still opened, AND they were already overcharged for the fare.

 

[Titfield]

Please post the letters that you received and sent in this thread. Please obscure your name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers.

As requested earlier, forum members need to see the letters so we can give appropriate advice.

CCTV footage of you tapping a card on a reader is not proof of intent to pay.

 

[island]

Would getting the maximum fare from tapping out (and no tap in) not count as valid?

No.

Surely the customer can't be held liable if the tap in was unsuccessful but the gate still opened,

There is nothing to say a gate opened.

AND they were already overcharged for the fare.

No fare had been charged at the point the inspection took place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2025 ==

CCTV footage of you tapping a card on a reader is not proof of intent to pay.

And in any case, if the matter has progressed to court, there is no material chance any CCTV footage still exists, it will have been overwritten after a month.

 

[Cuthbert]

Would getting the maximum fare from tapping out (and no tap in) not count as valid? Surely the customer can't be held liable if the tap in was unsuccessful but the gate still opened, AND they were already overcharged for the fare.

Someone behind the OP might have tapped their card.
You see it all the time at New Street station. People in a rush tapping the gate does not work then someone behind taps the gate opens.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We could do with knowing a bit more information? As I understand it:

- You touched in at Brookmans Park (was this on the standalone validator? There aren't any barriers at Brookmans Park)
- You weren't sure if the touch-in had worked
- A ticket inspection occurred onboard. Did you present the same card you touched in with?

A few questions:

- Did the inspector take your details?
- Did the inspector scan your card with their hand held terminal?
- How did you exit at Moorgate? Did the barriers open ok?
- If you haven't already done so can you sign-up for a TfL account and see if you can obtain your journey history for that day?
- Can you upload a redacted copy of the letter you've been sent and a copy of your journey history from the TfL website (if you can obtain it)

Contactless ticket inspections work differently to normal ticket inspections. When you touch in and out nothing gets written to your card. Details of touch ins and touch outs are reconciled in the back-office overnight and the appropriate fare calculated. When an inspection occurs the inspector has no way of knowing whether or not your card has been touched in. All they are supposed to do is scan the card and the rest happens in the back office. If the card is touched in before the revenue inspection then the ticket check is passed. If the card hasn't been touched in before the inpsection then you get charged a maximum fare (note not a Penalty Fare). Two failed revenue inspections means your card is blocked.

It seems to me that you might have inadvertently incriminated yourself in your interaction with the ticket inspector. Other possibilities are your card was blocked or was it a brand new card that normally needs to have had a chip and pin transaction before contactless works.