Avanti 1st Class Catering Expectations.

[wandacat]

I booked first class tickets for four people as a treat on tonight's 1934 service from Euston to Sandwell and Dudley.

For the price I paid and a near 2 hour journey, is it reasonable to have expected some form of catering?

No service was offered either food wise or drink wise. (Not even a bottle of water)

If was announced on the train that the shop was closed due to staffing issues, so that may be where the issue lies.

Is if worth complaining to Avanti, or are my expectations too high?

 

[jfollows]

Your expectations are too high.

Avanti First Class is unpredictable and unreliable and you’re expected to be grateful for what you do or don’t get.

I gave up using it years ago.

When it works it can be good, and there are positive reports here. But it just seems a bit random.

If you complain they may well try and hide behind the “it’s free, so nothing to pay back” excuse. Or they may give you a free ticket, you never know!

 

[A S Leib]

If you complain they may well try and hide behind the “it’s free, so nothing to pay back” excuse

How is that argument supposed to work on services with standard premium, where (at least in theory) SP's a lower price and the lack of food is the main difference between it and First?

 

[Bishopstone]

Yes, it’s worth complaining.

Avanti would struggle to argue catering is complimentary, because all other aspects of the first class experience can be had for a lower outlay in Standard Premium.

Ask for some money back.

 

[A S Leib]

because all other aspects of the first class experience can be had for a lower outlay in Standard Premium.

Standard Premium doesn't include lounge access, does it? I agree that it's worth complaining, especially given that for lots of stations (or journeys, if starting early or late enough) the (in)ability to use an Avanti first class lounge is irrelevant anyway.

 

[Bishopstone]

Standard Premium doesn't include lounge access, does it? I agree that it's worth complaining, especially given that for lots of stations (or journeys, if starting early or late enough) the (in)ability to use an Avanti first class lounge is irrelevant anyway.

Fair point.

 

[AndrewE]

What you (might) get is so random that SWMBO and I always take our own provisions appropriate to the journey. For that one we would have gone into Drummond St and got samosas and a pound or so of mixed pakhoras, plus beers from the grocer's opposite!
Even travelling through late morning /midday at the northern end of the WCML you have no idea of what token savoury will be served as "lunch" - or when - and in the evening it's even worse.

Take with you a tea-towel for a table-cloth, a couple of picnic plates and mugs and lots of paper towels and then buy a cooked chicken, potato and green salads and a couple of bottles of wine from a supermarket. It feels like being in a restaurant car! (Looking at the pic I can see that we had to eat our left-over lunch-time pork pie as the chickens had sold out!)

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Given that Avanti push the provision of food as part of their reason to choose First Class I can't see them being able to argue under consumer law that it is no different to Standard Premium.
If they tried to use the 'first class lounge defence then they would be arguing that if no food was available to first class passengers then those travelling to/from stations without lounges would be entitled to compensation but those whose stations had first class lounges would not.

 

[Kilopylae]

Given that Avanti push the provision of food as part of their reason to choose First Class I can't see them being able to argue under consumer law that it is no different to Standard Premium.
If they tried to use the 'first class lounge defence then they would be arguing that if no food was available to first class passengers then those travelling to/from stations without lounges would be entitled to compensation but those whose stations had first class lounges would not.

From their website: "There’s also a dedicated member of staff to take care of you and serve your complimentary food & drink", "Our First Class benefits ... Complimentary food and drink". Pretty inarguable.

 

[Watershed]

Avanti's first class service is incredibly mixed. When it works well, it's quite nice (especially when hot meals are served), but all too often there are no catering staff. It seems to be a question of chronic understaffing.

Avanti try to fob you off with discount codes when you complaint about no catering being provided - usually starting with an offer of 25%, increasing to 50% and ultimately 75% when you escalate. However this is no substitute for the partial refund which is undeniably due.

Unfortunately, you may have to take it to the Ombudsman or County Court to get what you're owed. I have to say, out of all the TOCs they are possibly the most difficult I have come across when it comes to this kind of issue.

 

[125Spotter]

out of all the TOCs they are possibly the most difficult I have come across

I have had the "first class is not part of the ticket but a complementary additional service" argument from GWR too, who were pretty uncompromising – and it's hard to argue back in this case given there's no Standard Premium equivalent. It is a kick in the teeth though when one of the main reasons to book 1st from a rural station is the promise of a warm drink on the journey into London.

GWR's product is an embarrassingly far cry from what it once was though, so it's not really a fair comparison with Avanti.

 

[yorkie]

Is if worth complaining to Avanti, or are my expectations too high?

You are entitled to some compensation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/50/enacted

50 (1) Every contract to supply a service is to be treated as including as a term of the contract anything that is said or written to the consumer, by or on behalf of the trader, about the trader or the service, if—

(a)it is taken into account by the consumer when deciding to enter into the contract, or

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/56/enacted

Right to price reduction

(1)The right to a price reduction is the right to require the trader to reduce the price to the consumer by an appropriate amount (including the right to receive a refund for anything already paid above the reduced amount).

(2)The amount of the reduction may, where appropriate, be the full amount of the price...

If the customer has taken a complimentary offering into account, when deciding to enter into the contract, and that offer is not available or 'as advertised', then a partial refund clearly is due.

The principle difference between 1st class and Standard Premium is the food & drink offering, so the cost of Standard Premium could be considered when making a claim, although it is perhaps debatable whether you are entitled to the full difference back between the fares. Furthermore, calculating the appropriate SP fare may not be straightforward.

 

[azOOOOOma]

On the rare occasions I’ve been without hosts, workload permitting I always offer passengers a sandwich, canned/bottled drink and crisps/biscuits. As much as it’s true, the ‘it’s complimentary’ thing bugs me. If I’ve got time I couldn’t just sit and do nothing when people have potentially paid hundreds for first.

 

[D6130]

On the rare occasions I’ve been without hosts, workload permitting I always offer passengers a sandwich, canned/bottled drink and crisps/biscuits. As much as it’s true, the ‘it’s complimentary’ thing bugs me. If I’ve got time I couldn’t just sit and do nothing when people have potentially paid hundreds for first.

Very commendable....but do you not work for LNER rather than Avanti?

 

[azOOOOOma]

I do but assume the set up is similar to Avanti?

Laura x

 

[D6130]

I do but assume the set up is similar to Avanti?

Laura x

It may possibly be more problematic for an Avanti train manager to serve refreshments to first class passengers as I believe they are based at the opposite end of a sometimes 11 car train.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Ah I see. I’m all fairness to me first was at the back so it made it easy for me

 

[voyagerdude220]

According to Avanti's website:

*All items on our menu are subject to availability. If you’re making a short trip with us, we may not have the full menu available, but you will have time for a drink. On some weekend Evero services, we may offer you complimentary refreshments from our onboard shop rather than at your seat.

So I'm guessing with your train being an Evero, potentially there wasn't anyone rostered to serve passengers in First Class, with the alternative being the Shop staff offering First Class passengers food and drink at the Shop, but of course this wasn't available.

 

[Trackman]

It's always bad at weekends, it's either the shop or first class at seat service that suffers, in this case both.

 

[wandacat]

Thank you for all of your replies.

I will get an E mail together later this week.

Ironically, I live between Sandwell and Dudley and Birmingham.

If I'd had booked to Birmingham New Street instead of Sandwell & Dufley I could put in for a 25% delay repay claim. But Avanti used just 3 minutes of 9 minutes dwell time at Birmingham New Street to arrive at Ssndwell & Dufley just 12 minutes down.

 

[Skiddaw]

How annoying! I agree- definitely worth a complaint.

I remember successfully bidding for a first class upgrade via Seatfrog one Sunday just after the first lockdown (when few people were travelling and everything was a bit ad-hoc) en route from Euston to Penrith (Avanti) and despite no proper meals being available the staff couldn't have been lovelier- they insisted on making me as much coffee as I could drink and positively flooded me with (extremely tasty) pretzels and museli bars. Being as I'd paid hardly anything for the upgrade I was well chuffed!

Sorry your experience was so different.

 

[Watershed]

I have had the "first class is not part of the ticket but a complementary additional service" argument from GWR too, who were pretty uncompromising – and it's hard to argue back in this case given there's no Standard Premium equivalent. It is a kick in the teeth though when one of the main reasons to book 1st from a rural station is the promise of a warm drink on the journey into London.

GWR's product is an embarrassingly far cry from what it once was though, so it's not really a fair comparison with Avanti.

The "but it's complementary" defence is utter tosh. Sure, there isn't an itemised cost on your ticket receipt and you don't pay extra - but that's precisely because it's part of the advertised service! Therefore, in the vast majority of circumstances, it will be a term of the contract that the refreshments are provided, thanks to section 50 of the CRA (as cited by @yorkie above).

As to GWR specifically, I believe their customer relations are handled by the same FirstGroup in-house company/team as Avanti, so it doesn't come as a huge surprise to me that they're reading off a similar script.