Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[Hyebone]

So the replacement for the 170 has been announced, but by two separate operators.

High Peak announced they were taking it on, with nothing on their website yet but avaliable here: https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/n...kewell-after-hulleys-of-baslow-closes-5050195


But Stagecoach have announced the same, currently only on internal news channels. But this service is only Monday to Saturday, hourly during the day between Chesterfield and Bakewell only (not Calow) .

So who will operate it? Or might they share the provision, could High Peak operate Sunday and evening services?

I smell a bus war looming...

 

[mayneway]

It's often the way in these situations that operators honour existing passes until expiry. Although, not always done.

Highly unlikely if it’s commercial.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2025 ==

I smell a bus war looming...

You couldn’t make it up.
Passengers go from having a very unreliable bus service to having two operators competing

 

[Hyebone]

You couldn’t make it up.
Passengers go from having a very unreliable bus service to having two operators competing

Not to mention the remaining Hulley's provision tomorrow. Three operators going between Chesterfield and Bakewell will make for some interesting photograph opportunities.

Maybe they could get rid of that dreaded bike lane on Chatsworth road in favour of a bus lane!

 

[Flange Squeal]

You couldn’t make it up.
Passengers go from having a very unreliable bus service to having two operators competing

A few years ago when Arriva closed their Guildford depot, Diamond South East registered commercial replacements for both the Woking to Goldworth Park 91 and Woking to Weybridge 436, but after it became clear Stagecoach (91) and Falcon Buses (436) had also registered replacements, Diamond cancelled their registrations and never ended up operating on either route. Could the same happen here perhaps? Or maybe Stagecoach will give their bit a good go as not running to/from the hospital I guess saves them the cost of a third bus/driver to be needed at any one time.

 

[Teapot42]

Or maybe Stagecoach will give their bit a good go as not running to/from the hospital I guess saves them the cost of a third bus/driver to be needed at any one time.

Unless they also omit Holymoorside I don't think you could do it with two buses. It's 55 minutes each way on Hulleys time, the way Stagecoach pad their timetable I can't see them registering that.

The fact High Peak have got in to the press first seems significant. There were rumours a few years back they wanted to get in to the area, and having a connection off the TP to Chatsworth that keeps all revenue with them could be valuable.

 

[tram21]

Not to mention the remaining Hulley's provision tomorrow. Three operators going between Chesterfield and Bakewell will make for some interesting photograph opportunities.

Stagecoach aren't operating tomorrow, it's from Thursday. But High peak apparently are operating tomorrow

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2025 ==

Unless they also omit Holymoorside

They may do. It says a revised route and timetable direct, so it may not serve Holymoorside

 

[M803UYA]

Highly unlikely if it’s commercial.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2025 ==

Not in my experience. It's seen as a goodwill gesture to do this - and there's countless examples where it's done. There's also multiple examples where it's not done.

Two springing to mind where it was done are 2015 when Western Greyhound went bust, and 2017 when Nippy Bus' owner decided to pursue his dream of not having to work there anymore (code for 'closed it down'. I think also this happened when Yellow Buses went bang in 2022, but I may be wrong as I've not looked up the information of the time before typing this so I'll await the inevitable shooting down for being incorrect.

 

[JKP]

Not in my experience. It's seen as a goodwill gesture to do this - and there's countless examples where it's done. There's also multiple examples where it's not done.

Two springing to mind where it was done are 2015 when Western Greyhound went bust, and 2017 when Nippy Bus' owner decided to pursue his dream of not having to work there anymore (code for 'closed it down'. I think also this happened when Yellow Buses went bang in 2022, but I may be wrong as I've not looked up the information of the time before typing this so I'll await the inevitable shooting down for being incorrect.

Given that it must be nearing the end of term, there must only be around 7 days before the holidays? Summer term tickets possibly not yet sold.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

This is something that was very confusing and I don't think I saw cleared up. Aside from the school / college runs, the 257 is commercial.

This leads me to suspect that Linburg have taken over those parts of the service only, with the remainder needing someone to come forwards and register commercially.

Edited to add: My feeling is that this actually makes the 257 less commercially viable. The school and college runs interwork with the rest of the timetable, meaning with those removed you need to add a lot of dead mileage, or lose valuable revenue which might make the service viable overall.

The tender issued by DCC for the 257 was a full 4 pvr hourly service running 0700-1930 (approx). That will be what Linburg have won. Whatever the technical position of the 257 may have been on paper when Hulleys ran it the new service will be a full DCC tender.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Unless they also omit Holymoorside I don't think you could do it with two buses. It's 55 minutes each way on Hulleys time, the way Stagecoach pad their timetable I can't see them registering that.

The fact High Peak have got in to the press first seems significant. There were rumours a few years back they wanted to get in to the area, and having a connection off the TP to Chatsworth that keeps all revenue with them could be valuable.

Holymoorside to be omitted except at school times.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

Stagecoach to Take Over Services from Hulley's25 Mar 2025 to 11 Apr 2025​

Stagecoach will be taking over two services following Hulley’s of Baslow closure
With the closure of Hulley’s of Baslow, who announced they will cease trading after service on Wednesday 26 March, we’ve stepped in to take over two important services to ensure our customers stay connected.
Service 63 between Chesterfield and Matlock is being run under contract to Derbyshire County Council and we’ve taken the decision to run a slightly adjusted service 170 from Chesterfield to Bakewell to support the local area.
We’ll provide an hourly daytime service 170 which will run daily linking Chesterfield Rail Station, New Beetwell Street, Baslow and Chatsworth to Bakewell. School journeys will also be catered for with one journey each way diverting to serve Holymoorside and extending to/from Lady Manners School.
Please see the 170 timetable here.
Service 63 will run exactly as the current timetable.

Service 170 will start on Wednesday 26th March and service 63 will start from Thursday 27th March.
Our dedicated teams are working hard to run these extra services at short notice and support customers across Derbyshire as much as we can.
We also want to help those affected by this change. If you’re impacted, we’re actively recruiting to expand our team and will do what we can to assist you during this time.

 

[psmith2023]

Wonder what buses Stagecoach will use on the 63s and 170 the old x17 gold Decker's or try the single decker electric buses

 

[AWK]

Stagecoach aren't operating tomorrow, it's from Thursday. But High peak apparently are operating tomorrow

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2025 ==

Stagecoach commence the 170 tomorrow, and 63 on Thursday

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2025 ==

Wonder what buses Stagecoach will use on the 63s and 170 the old x17 gold Decker's or try the single decker electric buses

63 to be an Enviro 300 and 170 to be deckers I gather at least initially

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wonder what buses Stagecoach will use on the 63s and 170 the old x17 gold Decker's or try the single decker electric buses

Why would they use deckers or electrics?

I'd suggest that depending what gets drafted in, the 63 might be an e300 and the 170 could be e200s

 

[Hyebone]

63 to be an Enviro 300 and 170 to be deckers I gather at least initially

Is this based on anything or just a guess?

 

[Teapot42]

Holymoorside to be omitted except at school times.

That gets it down to being viable with 2 buses, but it is missing one of the bigger traffic sources on the route. Especially on Saturdays when Hulleys ran the 84 it was often well loaded on arrival at Storrs Road junction heading in to Chesterfield.

The fact they've kept Chatsworth and the Railway station shows this is aimed more a tourist traffic than at locals.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

Why would they use deckers or electrics?

I'd suggest that depending what gets drafted in, the 63 might be an e300 and the 170 could be e200s

Does the 63 get busy? With it only being a tender I'd have thought it would be a solo or e200

 

[Teapot42]

Is this based on anything or just a guess?

Schools capacity?

Hulleys used the Scania or an Evora on the 63 to give the capacity needed for the school runs, and E400s were common for LMS runs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Mar 2025 ==

Does the 63 get busy? With it only being a tender I'd have thought it would be a solo or e200

Daytime services a Solo would be ideal, but the school runs need more capacity than an E200

 

[richard13]

The world is complicated!
These bus company failures are always different.

London franchise experience says that routes are normally run by the nearest depot - less overheads.

Hulley's does not have a network centred on Baslow. Not even the routes running past.
Hence the contracts are going to those with depots near to the routes and the shape of Hulley's disappears.
For Hulley's to have contracts for distant routes suggests they were under pricing - hence their demise.

170 - Stagecoach have got in first (before High Peak) with a public website announcement of the 170 with a cheaper selective cutdown version and omitting Holymoorside which is outside Derbyshire. They will also start tomorrow (Wednesday). They have a depot nearer than High Peak. It probably fits in with Stagecoach's sightseer service's at Bakewell more than High Peak's Transpeak. We will see what happens tomorrow.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

The world is complicated!
These bus company failures are always different.

London franchise experience says that routes are normally run by the nearest depot - less overheads.

Hulley's does not have a network centred on Baslow. Not even the routes running past.
Hence the contracts are going to those with depots near to the routes and the shape of Hulley's disappears.
For Hulley's to have contracts for distant routes suggests they were under pricing - hence their demise.

170 - Stagecoach have got in first (before High Peak) with a public website announcement of the 170 with a cheaper selective cutdown version and omitting Holymoorside which is outside Derbyshire. They will also start tomorrow (Wednesday). They have a depot nearer than High Peak. It probably fits in with Stagecoach's sightseer service's at Bakewell more than High Peak's Transpeak. We will see what happens tomorrow.

Where is Holymoorside if not in Derbyshire?

 

[Teapot42]

170 - Stagecoach have got in first (before High Peak) with a public website announcement of the 170 with a cheaper selective cutdown version and omitting Holymoorside which is outside Derbyshire.

Holymoorside is very much inside Derbyshire! It borders Chesterfield. It was served by Stagecoach in the past, however they dropped it as they couldn't operate it reliably so lost passengers.

 

[SSmith2009]

High Peak have uploaded a timetable for the 170

See here: https://www.highpeakbuses.com/bus-services/170/

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

High Peak have uploaded a timetable for the 170

See here: https://www.highpeakbuses.com/bus-services/170/

So now we have 2 operators for the 170 yet no one confirmed for the 55, 271 and 272. Really I think Stagecoach should just do the 55 instead and leave the 170 to High Peak

 

[AWK]

So now we have 2 operators for the 170 yet no one confirmed for the 55, 271 and 272. Really I think Stagecoach should just do the 55 instead and leave the 170 to High Peak

Why?

It's a commercial service so up to the operators what they both wish to offer. Personally I don't think there's the demand on the 170 for 2 operators, and personally I can see one of the operators pulling off before too long.

Maybe the fact that no one has jumped in to rescue the 55 speaks volumes about the need for that service and it's profitability, or indeed it may be that operators - potentially including Stagecoach and High Peak - are still doing their homework on the 55 (and others) before committing.

 

[MotCO]

So now we have 2 operators for the 170 yet no one confirmed for the 55, 271 and 272. Really I think Stagecoach should just do the 55 instead and leave the 170 to High Peak

How / why would the Traffic Commissioners authorise two operators for the same route? Could they consider both applications and see which one offers the best service?

 

[mangad]

High Peak have uploaded a timetable for the 170

See here: https://www.highpeakbuses.com/bus-services/170/

No evening or Sunday service, but daytime's identical to the Hulleys timetable by the looks of it. A sensible move.

Stagecoach don't appear to have actually published a timetable.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

How / why would the Traffic Commissioners authorise two operators for the same route? Could they consider both applications and see which one offers the best service?

Any operator can run pretty much whatever route they want, plenty of times in the past there have been more than 2 operators on 1 route. The sensible option would be Stagecoach run the 55 while High Peak run the 170, but the traffic commissioner can't do anything about it as far as I'm aware

 

[Goldfish62]

How / why would the Traffic Commissioners authorise two operators for the same route? Could they consider both applications and see which one offers the best service?

The Traffic Commissioners have no such powers of veto. If dozens of operators registered route 170 and the registrations were submitted correctly then the TC would have to accept them. That's what deregulation has been about for the past 39 years.

 

[WibbleWobble]

One thing the Traffic Commissioner can do is block one operator's timetable from being registered at short notice. Usually whichever is submitted first or gets local authority approval quickest gets the short notice, whilst the other has to wait the full notice period.

 

[Teapot42]

No evening or Sunday service, but daytime's identical to the Hulleys timetable by the looks of it. A sensible move.

The journeys they haven't registered appear to be the ones currently supported by BSIP funds.

I suspect there will be a fight over who gets this funding - who wins is likely to be the one who sticks with the service long-term. By serving Holymoorside I feel High Peak are in a better position.

Stagecoach don't appear to have actually published a timetable.

They've confirmed it will omit Holymoorside, so will be different. If their intention is more to take the Chesterfield Railway Station to Chatsworth traffic then they'd actually be better avoiding Chatsworth Road as it can be a nightmare in the summer.

 

[m79900]

Will ACT/Andrews/Linburg take over some old Hulleys vehicles since none really have any suitable vehicles? ACT in particular just has Mercedes Sprinters which won't be enough for the Anthony Gell buses, and at least Liburg and Andrews have some deckers.