**Urgent Advice** TFL London Underground Train prosecution

[SeekinTraineeS]

Hello,

I am seeking advice on the appropriate steps I should take to try lessen my punishment for a TFL train prosecution that I will likely be facing. I have received a letter from the Investigations Appeals and Prosecutions Team of TFL (Transport for London) regarding fare dodging on the London underground line. The incident occurred at Westminster station and I was coming from London Bridge.

The letter states that if I accept committing an offence, to provide any exceptional reasons that I may feel are relevant and evidence to support, as to why TFL should not proceed with a prosecution.

I plan to plead guilty and accept committing an offence as I did not have a ticket when journeying at the time of the incident. The reason is because I was in a rush and I did not have enough money on my Revolut card that I was using at the time, so I proceeded without a ticket as I was in a rush to get to work as I was running late.

The reason I require help is I want advice on whether or not I should seek a Solicitor regarding this matter to reduce the chance of prosecution or if I should respond by myself and plead my case and apologise and hope for the best. In addition to this, I am not financially stable at the moment, so the opportunity to reduce the £1000 fine would also be appreciated.

A bit of info I plan to include that has been mentioned at the time of the incident is that I am working in Hospitality on a zero hour contract, the increase in taxes recently has meant my standard of living has gotten harder. I have no prior convictions in addition to this but I have been fined in the past £50 by TFL for not having a ticket, again similar circumstances. Living paycheque to paycheque and having so many expenses has made budgeting and expenditure difficult for me.

I have read other threads and people have mentioned TFL get annoyed if you involve solicitors and prefer when you deal with the letter yourself. Adding onto this the rates that solicitors request (£200 consultation + £700 to represent me) are quite high and if my case is likely to be prosecuted anyway I would rather not waste any money hiring professionals that cannot prevent my prosecutions.

I take accountability of my actions and because of this I am prepared for the consequences of my actions. I just want to find a solution if there any are possible in which a prosecution can be avoided. A criminal record would be a hinderance for job opportunities and I would prefer to be able to avoid that.

Any recommendations on how I should proceed by more educated people would be helpful.

I have 5 days from posting this to make a decision and so any advice will be greatly welcomed as soon as possible.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello,

I am seeking advice on the appropriate steps I should take to try lessen my punishment for a TFL train prosecution that I will likely be facing. I have received a letter from the Investigations Appeals and Prosecutions Team of TFL (Transport for London) regarding fare dodging on the London underground line. The incident occurred at Westminster station and I was coming from London Bridge.

The letter states that if I accept committing an offence, to provide any exceptional reasons that I may feel are relevant and evidence to support, as to why TFL should not proceed with a prosecution.

I plan to plead guilty and accept committing an offence as I did not have a ticket when journeying at the time of the incident. The reason is because I was in a rush and I did not have enough money on my Revolut card that I was using at the time, so I proceeded without a ticket as I was in a rush to get to work as I was running late.

The reason I require help is I want advice on whether or not I should seek a Solicitor regarding this matter to reduce the chance of prosecution or if I should respond by myself and plead my case and apologise and hope for the best. In addition to this, I am not financially stable at the moment, so the opportunity to reduce the £1000 fine would also be appreciated.

A bit of info I plan to include that has been mentioned at the time of the incident is that I am working in Hospitality on a zero hour contract, the increase in taxes recently has meant my standard of living has gotten harder. I have no prior convictions in addition to this but I have been fined in the past £50 by TFL for not having a ticket, again similar circumstances. Living paycheque to paycheque and having so many expenses has made budgeting and expenditure difficult for me.

I have read other threads and people have mentioned TFL get annoyed if you involve solicitors and prefer when you deal with the letter yourself. Adding onto this the rates that solicitors request (£200 consultation + £700 to represent me) are quite high and if my case is likely to be prosecuted anyway I would rather not waste any money hiring professionals that cannot prevent my prosecutions.

I take accountability of my actions and because of this I am prepared for the consequences of my actions. I just want to find a solution if there any are possible in which a prosecution can be avoided. A criminal record would be a hinderance for job opportunities and I would prefer to be able to avoid that.

Any recommendations on how I should proceed by more educated people would be helpful.

I have 5 days from posting this to make a decision and so any advice will be greatly welcomed as soon as possible.

Welcome to the forum!

It's important to know that £1000 is the maximum fine that you can receive: the actual fine will be based on your income and is likely to be quite a lot less (maybe £220). Against that, if you plead (or are found) guilty you will also have to pay compensation (i.e. the fare you should have paid), an 'surcharge' of 40% of the fine , and TfL's costs (typically something like £150). So all in, it's likely that you would have to pay something like £500 - which is a lot, but is still less than the £1000 you are worrying about.

So being convicted won't be as financially damaging as you think. You also need to think about whether having a conviction ('a criminal record') will be a problem for your career. With respect, as you work in hospitality, it may not be, in that while your boss may well want to know that they can trust you with the till, it's not as if you're controlling people's lives and money in the way that accountants or lawyers do.

As long as you don't need to be desperately careful about a criminal record, my advice would be to write back to TfL apologising for what you did, and wait for them to take you to court: when they do, plead guilty and pay the fine. You won't need a solicitor for all of that, so could save that bit of the cost.

 

[SeekinTraineeS]

Welcome to the forum!

It's important to know that £1000 is the maximum fine that you can receive: the actual fine will be based on your income and is likely to be quite a lot less (maybe £220). Against that, if you plead (or are found) guilty you will also have to pay compensation (i.e. the fare you should have paid), an 'surcharge' of 40% of the fine , and TfL's costs (typically something like £150). So all in, it's likely that you would have to pay something like £500 - which is a lot, but is still less than the £1000 you are worrying about.

So being convicted won't be as financially damaging as you think. You also need to think about whether having a conviction ('a criminal record') will be a problem for your career. With respect, as you work in hospitality, it may not be, in that while your boss may well want to know that they can trust you with the till, it's not as if you're controlling people's lives and money in the way that accountants or lawyers do.

As long as you don't need to be desperately careful about a criminal record, my advice would be to write back to TfL apologising for what you did, and wait for them to take you to court: when they do, plead guilty and pay the fine. You won't need a solicitor for all of that, so could save that bit of the cost.

Hello thanks for the response. My dream is to one day enter the tech sector. Maybe as a software engineer or data scientist. Would the criminal record effect me for these opportunities. If so do you know which other sectors care a great deal about criminal record?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

My dream is to one day enter the tech sector. Maybe as a software engineer or data scientist. Would the criminal record effect me for these opportunities. If so do you know which other sectors care a great deal about criminal record?

I don't have the knowledge to give a specific answer to this question. But in general, the sort of jobs which worry a lot about whether someone has a criminal record are jobs where you have a lot of control over other people. This could be because you are directly in control of aspects of their life (so being a doctor, a healthcare assistant and so on) or you control other people's money (things like being an accountant or a lawyer). Firms will want to be carefull with who deals with their money as well (so things like being a banker, but also whoever works the till in the newsagents or a bar). Depending on the sort of software you would be writing or the data you would be looking at, you might be affected - or you might not.

It's also important to understand that for most purposes a conviction for fare dodging only stays with you for maybe a year. In British law, there's a thing called the 'Rehabilitation of Offenders Act' which says that for most purposes convictions become 'spent' after a while: for fare dodging convictions, that's after about a year. What this means is that employers and so on are only allowed to ask about spent convictions if the employer is in particular categories: otherwise once a conviction is spent you should be treated just like someone who never went to court. If an employer is allowed to ask you about spent convictions, the application form you have to fill in will spell this out very clearly.

So for most people being convicted of faredoging won't be disastrous. It's embarrassing and expensive, but hopefully won't ruin your life.

 

[SeekinTraineeS]

I don't have the knowledge to give a specific answer to this question. But in general, the sort of jobs which worry a lot about whether someone has a criminal record are jobs where you have a lot of control over other people. This could be because you are directly in control of aspects of their life (so being a doctor, a healthcare assistant and so on) or you control other people's money (things like being an accountant or a lawyer). Firms will want to be carefull with who deals with their money as well (so things like being a banker, but also whoever works the till in the newsagents or a bar). Depending on the sort of software you would be writing or the data you would be looking at, you might be affected - or you might not.

It's also important to understand that for most purposes a conviction for fare dodging only stays with you for maybe a year. In British law, there's a thing called the 'Rehabilitation of Offenders Act' which says that for most purposes convictions become 'spent' after a while: for fare dodging convictions, that's after about a year. What this means is that employers and so on are only allowed to ask about spent convictions if the employer is in particular categories: otherwise once a conviction is spent you should be treated just like someone who never went to court. If an employer is allowed to ask you about spent convictions, the application form you have to fill in will spell this out very clearly.

So for most people being convicted of faredoging won't be disastrous. It's embarrassing and expensive, but hopefully won't ruin your life.

Thanks for the insight, if there is anything else I should know about the criminal record of bylaws let me know. Otherwise good day to you.

 

[notmyrealname]

There's an organisation called Unlock that's often recommended by members here for additional information. You could read up there.

Unlock

For people with criminal records.

unlock.org.uk

 

[Haywain]

I have read other threads and people have mentioned TFL get annoyed if you involve solicitors and prefer when you deal with the letter yourself.

I don't believe that you've seen that on these forums. The reality is that TfL seem to often settle for a warning when solicitors are involved. This may well be because they see the cost involved in hiring solicitors as being a suitable disincentive to repeating the wrongdoing.

 

[duffield]

Hello thanks for the response. My dream is to one day enter the tech sector. Maybe as a software engineer or data scientist. Would the criminal record effect me for these opportunities. If so do you know which other sectors care a great deal about criminal record?

Specific example:

From my personal experience, working on any government computer system requires security clearance and (as I remember it) when I completed mine I would have had to disclose any conviction of any nature, regardless of whether it was legally "spent" or not. However, I can't say if it would have affected my continued employment (I was already in the relevant role) since I had nothing to declare.

In fact, in my case security clearance was required even though I did not actually work on government systems myself, because my company did support such systems and I was located alongside people who worked on them.

Until my company took on the government work I had no requirements for security clearance.

Anyhow it's just an example. I believe your possible TfL conviction would not be any more relevant to most tech sector roles than to any other random job.

 

[Egg Centric]

Hello thanks for the response. My dream is to one day enter the tech sector. Maybe as a software engineer or data scientist. Would the criminal record effect me for these opportunities. If so do you know which other sectors care a great deal about criminal record?

As someone in that field, highly unlikely unless like @duffield says you wanted to enter ones where a security clearance was required (and you probably don't want to do those anyway as wither very few exceptions they're neither fun nor well paid).

Now that said - I personally as a hiring manager would have it as a mark (but not definite deal breaker) against you. Not so much because it's a criminal conviction (I'm extremely forgiving of those in the abstract), but because of the nature of it (both dishonest and stupid). But don't worry about me, it would be a huge coincidence for us to ever meet and I'm not going to recognise you off this thread. That's just life though - someone else in this forum told me the other day they'd fire me for my approach to expense claims. It's a big world out there with very different standards on what's acceptable and what isn't!

 

[SeekinTraineeS]

I don't believe that you've seen that on these forums. The reality is that TfL seem to often settle for a warning when solicitors are involved. This may well be because they see the cost involved in hiring solicitors as being a suitable disincentive to repeating the wrongdoing.

The ones I reached out to mentioned I have 50% chance and if that’s the case, am I better if just continue alone since they charge so much.

 

[Titfield]

The ones I reached out to mentioned I have 50% chance and if that’s the case, am I better if just continue alone since they charge so much.

That is a decision for you to make. I think you need to consider carefully whether a conviction will have a major impact on your career in hospitality. As far as I am aware it is not a regulated profession. The only thing I can think of is if you are seeking to be a holder of a liquor licence.

 

[Njal]

Thanks for the insight, if there is anything else I should know about the criminal record of bylaws let me know. Otherwise good day to you.

There's a barrister here talking on Youtube about spent convictions.

 

[SeekinTraineeS]

That is a decision for you to make. I think you need to consider carefully whether a conviction will have a major impact on your career in hospitality. As far as I am aware it is not a regulated profession. The only thing I can think of is if you are seeking to be a holder of a liquor licence.

That is a decision for you to make. I think you need to consider carefully whether a conviction will have a major impact on your career in hospitality. As far as I am aware it is not a regulated profession. The only thing I can think of is if you are seeking to be a holder of a liquor licence.

I’m uncertain on if a solicitor would even help me avoid the prosecution.

I’m uncertain on if solicitors would make things worse with TFL as they apparently don’t like solicitors being involved.

I’m lastly just uncertain on the effectiveness of using soliciting if I plan to accept my charges.

I just want to know if they are value for money and if my odds of getting less harsher punishment is worth the investment.

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m uncertain on if a solicitor would even help me avoid the prosecution.

I’m uncertain on if solicitors would make things worse with TFL as they apparently don’t like solicitors being involved.

I’m lastly just uncertain on the effectiveness of using soliciting if I plan to accept my charges.

I just want to know if they are value for money and if my odds of getting less harsher punishment is worth the investment.

A solicitor isn’t going to make anything worse.

Where have you heard TfL don’t like solicitors being involved? If you can’t find an authoritative source for this that is reliable I’d ignore it.

Only you can decide if it’s value for money. You are probably looking at £750 legal fee from a solicitor but you can ask for a quote. They can’t guarantee you will not be prosecuted as you say.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I’m uncertain on if a solicitor would even help me avoid the prosecution.

I’m uncertain on if solicitors would make things worse with TFL as they apparently don’t like solicitors being involved.

I’m lastly just uncertain on the effectiveness of using soliciting if I plan to accept my charges.

I just want to know if they are value for money and if my odds of getting less harsher punishment is worth the investment.

I rather think the word you are looking for is outlay.
A good investment might have been to pay correctly for your travel, but that’s all water under the (London) Bridge now

 

[30907]

I’m uncertain on if solicitors would make things worse with TFL as they apparently don’t like solicitors being involved.

I don't recall ever seeing this stated on here, other than by you

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't recall ever seeing this stated on here, other than by you

I agree. I can't recall exactly what TfL's letters say - but at least some of the train companies letters actually include a sentence along the lines of encouraging the recipient to consider getting legal advice. This can be seen on letters people upload to this forum.

 

[Titfield]

Using a solicitor I would say increases your chances of being given a warning rather than being convicted. However we - the forum - can not say by how much it increases your chances. All we can go on is that we have seen a small number of cases where a warning has been given when a solicitor has been used compared to a very very small number of cases where a warning has been given without a solicitor being used. I am sorry but we can not be more definitive.
Unfortunately what happens is an either or. You either get a warning from tfl or you are prosecuted and found guilty in a court.
I doubt that your career would be harmed if convicted based on what you have said about your career. I think this is more about your own self esteem and view of yourself.
You may just ask yourself one question. 5 years from now how important will it be if you were convicted for this offence? It is up to you how you go forward - a minor conviction will only define you if you let it.