Claims Reported That Merseyrail Driver Demanded "Autistic Child Stop Crying"

[TBY-Paul]

I find it strange that the article is written by a “Political Editor “. I could understand if it was written by a Transport or Health correspondent, but “Political” suggests other things are at play.

 

[Rail101]

I find it strange that the article is written by a “Political Editor “. I could understand if it was written by a Transport or Health correspondent, but “Political” suggests other things are at play.

He's written about loads of different topics that aren't explicitly political and his bio says he has an expertise in transport. Also this is a Reach Plc website so you can expect all of their journos to write about all different things. I really don't think it means there's anything else involved in this

 

[John Luxton]

Isn't South Parkway technically in Speke?

Definitely not. It is the old Allerton Station renamed and just across the road from teh site of the former Garston station which closed when South Parkway opened. Speke did have its own station but closed in 1930. The area served was rural back. Perhaps something that could be revisited as it would be within walking distance of the estate.

 

[LowLevel]

What I don’t understand here is the fact that the driver is picking on an autistic child and their parent, yet you never see train staff telling drunk football hooligans to shut up, a noise which, I personally, find far more irritating and distracting.

Absolute nonsense. Having seen 5 foot nothing female train crew putting drunk football hooligans back into the box your inference is a load of rubbish.

As a guard I tell anyone making a racket right next to the drivers cab to pack it in, regardless of who they are. More than once I've found the driver at it before I get there.

 

[birchesgreen]

I find it strange that the article is written by a “Political Editor “. I could understand if it was written by a Transport or Health correspondent, but “Political” suggests other things are at play.

Probably the only actual journalist that works for the paper nowadays, the rest being interns who copy and paste from social media or AI.

 

[tfw756rider]

While I won't comment on what allegedly happened, if train manufacturers can't properly soundproof the driver's cab back wall, why not just designate the areas near the cabs (with clear signage) as "no loud noise in this area"?

 

[Krokodil]

While I won't comment on what allegedly happened, if train manufacturers can't properly soundproof the driver's cab back wall, why not just designate the areas near the cabs (with clear signage) as "no loud noise in this area"?

Been a while since I last went on a 777 but many other units do have signage behind cab doors.

 

[12LDA28C]

if train manufacturers can't properly soundproof the driver's cab back wall, why not just designate the areas near the cabs (with clear signage) as "no loud noise in this area"?

They do. Quite often the 'quiet zone' is directly behind the driver's cab. Of course whether passengers actually take any notice of the signage or not is another matter.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Perhaps we should go back to building multiple units with guards'/baggage compartments directly behind the drivers' cabs which then distances the passenger saloons

 

[Kite159]

While I won't comment on what allegedly happened, if train manufacturers can't properly soundproof the driver's cab back wall, why not just designate the areas near the cabs (with clear signage) as "no loud noise in this area"?

Because that would be inviting people to sit there to make loud noises. Similar to those who willingly sit in quiet coaches and break out the TikFlop videos on full volume without a care in the world.

I guess the big difference between the older and newer Merseyrail units is the PEPs had that empty space between the cab and the passenger area for the crew door (and most likely the wall would have been sound proofed).

 

[GordonT]

Because that would be inviting people to sit there to make loud noises.

It would indeed advertise open season for noisy yobs to gravitate to that very area. The ship carrying lots of dutifully obedient people quietly cowed by the presence of an official notice sailed many years ago.

 

[styles]

One side of the story of course.

You would hope that a driver would make a polite request to the carer (who was present) for the person to sit a few rows back and explain the reasons; or buzz the guard to do the same.

At the same time, you would hope that, unless the train was rammed, the passenger would move a few rows back to help get on the way.

What we don't know are:

1. What did the driver actually say, word for word?
2. Did they try and contact a guard to handle it while they drive a station?
3. Did the passenger comply with the request?
4. Did the passenger's carer (mentioned in the article) help them comply?
5. Did the passenger or their carer become argumentative?
6. Etc
7. Etc

Regardless, there's a lot more to this story than the headline.

 

[duffield]

It would indeed advertise open season for noisy yobs to gravitate to that very area. The ship carrying lots of dutifully obedient people quietly cowed by the presence of an official notice sailed many years ago.

Then maybe the trick would be to put "quiet area" notices as far away from the cabs as possible, and the noisy yobs would congregate there.

 

[Egg Centric]

I have seen a facebook ( I know not the best of sources) post about this story with several people saying that he has it in for Merseyraill and is always putting in complaints

I wouldn't blame some of the posters in either of the Fares, Ticketing, and Routing subforums for having it in for Merseyrail tbf .

Ultimately we just don't know - the "error bars" around this story are so huge that they cover everything from perfectly reasonable behaviour by all three parties (complainant, mother, and driver - I'm not going to include the child) to abominable behaviour by all three. And I doubt we'll ever hear the truth either unless one of them behaved so egregiously some kind of court case happens, which is unlikely.

 

[43066]

There’s no suggestion that the passenger wouldn’t have moved if spoken to differently, or if they were travelling further than the next stop, which would have been about a minute away.

There’s also no suggestion that the mother in question had any issue with how she was spoken to by the driver - the complaint was made by someone else.

It’s also worth remember that passengers are under a legal obligation to obey safety related instructions from staff - they can’t choose whether or not to follow them because they don’t like the choice of wording.

 

[furnessvale]

One side of the story of course.

You would hope that a driver would make a polite request to the carer (who was present) for the person to sit a few rows back and explain the reasons; or buzz the guard to do the same.

At the same time, you would hope that, unless the train was rammed, the passenger would move a few rows back to help get on the way.

What we don't know are:

1. What did the driver actually say, word for word?
2. Did they try and contact a guard to handle it while they drive a station?
3. Did the passenger comply with the request?
4. Did the passenger's carer (mentioned in the article) help them comply?
5. Did the passenger or their carer become argumentative?
6. Etc
7. Etc

Regardless, there's a lot more to this story than the headline.

Just a suggestion. At what point do we find out that the child was also repeatedly kicking hell out of the partition?

 

[bahnause]

I use hearing protection on noisy units. They would work with noisy children as well I suppose.

 

[styles]

Just a suggestion. At what point do we find out that the child was also repeatedly kicking hell out of the partition?

Well, yes, that is a possibility, with only having one side's account of things.

In the title it says the driver told an autistic person to stop crying. Yet in the body of the article it says the person was screaming, and makes no reference to telling them to stop crying. All a mess really.

Nobody knows what actually happened based on this article.

 

[ExRes]

I use hearing protection on noisy units. They would work with noisy children as well I suppose.

Hopefully not as a driver

 

[Northsky]

This doesn't suprise me. Only this week on a rush hour merseyrail service I witnessed a passenger run for the train with his bike. I think the door was closing at the time, but its something we've all done (minus the bike). He made it on board.

The next minute the tannoy came on and the public telling off that passenger was subject to was appalling. Pointing out to all of us which passenger it was and how we would all be angry that he nearly caused a train delay. I felt so embarrassed listening to it, as did many of the passengers who all looked at each other in disbelief. Whether it was the guard or the driver I'm not sure. I figured it wasn't my place to complain to merseyrail about it, but whoever it was needs serious re-training in how to speak to people and not to cause someone very public humiliation.

 

[NSEWonderer]

This doesn't suprise me. Only this week on a rush hour merseyrail service I witnessed a passenger run for the train with his bike. I think the door was closing at the time, but its something we've all done (minus the bike). He made it on board.

The next minute the tannoy came on and the public telling off that passenger was subject to was appalling. Pointing out to all of us which passenger it was and how we would all be angry that he nearly caused a train delay. I felt so embarrassed listening to it, as did many of the passengers who all looked at each other in disbelief. Whether it was the guard or the driver I'm not sure. I figured it wasn't my place to complain to merseyrail about it, but whoever it was needs serious re-training in how to speak to people and not to cause someone very public humiliation.

To be fair that's the sort of thing that on a really bad day leads to a trap and drag, or more commonly the door gets damaged and leads to serious delays if not cancellation.

 

[Northsky]

To be fair that's the sort of thing that on a really bad day leads to a trap and drag, or more commonly the door gets damaged and leads to serious delays if not cancellation.

That's true, and that's fair enough. I think what I was more getting at is the way it was handled. I've dealt with some very stupid public in my career, but I've always kept their dignity whilst sorting the problem out. This wasn't the way to go about it. I just saw the similarity between this and the thread subject in the way that staff are dealing with public. It's a public facing role, and you should be expected to handle situations appropriately. Whether that is disabilities, criminals, children, someone having a bad day... All of these present their own challenges with a different approach to each one.

 

[NSEWonderer]

That's true, and that's fair enough. I think what I was more getting at is the way it was handled. I've dealt with some very stupid public in my career, but I've always kept their dignity whilst sorting the problem out. This wasn't the way to go about it. I just saw the similarity between this and the thread subject in the way that staff are dealing with public. It's a public facing role, and you should be expected to handle situations appropriately. Whether that is disabilities, criminals, children, someone having a bad day... All of these present their own challenges with a different approach to each one.

That is indeed fair.

 

[bahnause]

Hopefully not as a driver

Yes, as a driver. A damaged hearing doesn’t help if you want to keep your job.

 

[Krokodil]

Yes, as a driver. A damaged hearing doesn’t help if you want to keep your job.

Wouldn't wearing ear plugs risk you not hearing in-cab alarms?

 

[bahnause]

Wouldn't wearing ear plugs risk you not hearing in-cab alarms?

This could be rectified by establishing a reasonable sound level all of the cabs.

 

[Djgr]

Wouldn't wearing ear plugs risk you not hearing in-cab alarms?

Doesn't the technology exist so that you would hear them?

After all millions of people use headphones to listen to their devices every day.

 

[Krokodil]

Doesn't the technology exist so that you would hear them?

After all millions of people use headphones to listen to their devices every day.

Devices in cabs? Now that's definitely a no-no.

 

[tfw756rider]

Devices in cabs? Now that's definitely a no-no.

No, the in-cab warning sounds being played through ear-defending headphones.

(Thanks all to those who replied to my previous messages).

 

[amahy]

Absolute nonsense. Having seen 5 foot nothing female train crew putting drunk football hooligans back into the box your inference is a load of rubbish.

As a guard I tell anyone making a racket right next to the drivers cab to pack it in, regardless of who they are. More than once I've found the driver at it before I get there.

Must have just been unlucky then. I've been on many trains with drunk hooligans on board, and not a single time has a member of staff told them to shut up, including asking BTP staff, and them saying "we can't do anything about it".