West Midlands Railway Fine Enquiry

[EW1]

Hi,

Yesterday I received a fair for not being able to provide the ticket which I lost, I paid for the ticket with cash and explained this circumstance and was told that it would still be fine as I can’t show them a valid ticket, I didn’t know at this time that I could possibly buy another ticket there and then but I wasn’t told this and I rarely take the train, Im also 17, it is for £58, the journey in total was actually only 20 minutes or so, how would I go about appealing this?

Much appreciation to anyone who could help.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

It would help if you could show us what you were given (redact your name and personal details so that the whole internet doesn't get to know about you!) but it sounds as if you have been given a penalty fare for £50 plus the train fare. I'll reply on the assumption that is the case.

And if it's a penalty fare, the news isn't great: not being able to produce a train ticket is an offence (railway byelaw 18(2) - see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws#travel-and-fares-1) so if the railway wanted they could have taken you to court instead of giving you a penalty fare (although I should say that it's unusual for the railway to prosecute if you are under 18). And appeals against penalty fares generally rely on there being some sort of mistake in how it was issued, rather than on a judgment that it isn't fair.

So there may be technical grounds to challenge the penalty - others may be along shortly to explore those options. But my advice would be to pay the penalty - and do it soon, as if what you have is a penalty fare, the penalty element goes up from £50 to £100 if you don't pay within 21 days.

 

[EW1]

Welcome to the forum!

It would help if you could show us what you were given (redact your name and personal details so that the whole internet doesn't get to know about you!) but it sounds as if you have been given a penalty fare for £50 plus the train fare. I'll reply on the assumption that is the case.

And if it's a penalty fare, the news isn't great: not being able to produce a train ticket is an offence (railway byelaw 18(2) - see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws#travel-and-fares-1) so if the railway wanted they could have taken you to court instead of giving you a penalty fare (although I should say that it's unusual for the railway to prosecute if you are under 18). And appeals against penalty fares generally rely on there being some sort of mistake in how it was issued, rather than on a judgment that it isn't fair.

So there may be technical grounds to challenge the penalty - others may be along shortly to explore those options. But my advice would be to pay the penalty - and do it soon, as if what you have is a penalty fare, the penalty element goes up from £50 to £100 if you don't pay within 21 days.

I appreciate the quick response, Im currently a college student and I don’t have the necessary funds right now to pay for such a fine, I was also confused about whether or not there was something about me being under age that could reduce this appeal, because I made it openly clear how old I am.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,

Yesterday I received a fair for not being able to provide the ticket which I lost, I paid for the ticket with cash and explained this circumstance and was told that it would still be fine as I can’t show them a valid ticket, I didn’t know at this time that I could possibly buy another ticket there and then but I wasn’t told this and I rarely take the train, Im also 17, it is for £58, the journey in total was actually only 20 minutes or so, how would I go about appealing this?

Much appreciation to anyone who could help.

If this was Penalty Fare be sure not to miss the prompt payment deadline as otherwise the £50 element of the Penalty Fare increases to £100.

Unfortunately a paper ticket is like a bank note in this regard, if you lose it you have no ticket to show. They will not accept receipts for buying tickets either instead of a ticket - whether that be cash or card , because people could buy a ticket, give it to a friend, and try to travel using the receipt.

As I understand it Appealing Penalty Fares because you don't think it's fair that one was issued to you - does not work - it's not a valid grounds for Appeal - a valid Appeal has to be made on the basis that the Penalty Fare was not correctly issued for the circumstances involved, as set out in the Penalty Fares regulations.

People might ask you a few questions here to check if there is any basis for you to Appeal on that basis, but my suspicion is you should be prepared to pay this sum (although you can still appeal, you would be refunded if the appeal was successful).

If it's any consolation to you, apart from being let off by the member of staff with a verbal warning, a Penalty fare is the leas worst sanction they can apply - if they thought deliberate evasion might be involved they would be able to report you for investigations - the outcome of which is almost always going to be more expensive to resolve than £50 Penalty Fare.

But if you upload paperwork etc experts here will see if you have valid grounds to appeal.

 

[Hadders]

Based on what you've said I doubt an appeal would succeed but it's still worth appealing. You get 21-days to pay the Penalty Fare at the reduced rate and if you appeal the clock is stopped on the 21-days. This gives you a bit ore time to raise the funds to pay it.