Caught last week using freedom pass

[notthinking123]

Good morning all.

Last week I was caught using my mother freedom pass, stupid 101%.
I dont do excuses, but generally I’ve fallen on money troubles, cost of living etc.

I’ve read with great interest a number topics of the same reported issues and everyone case is different.

I’m currently still waiting for my letter from TfL, and I will pled guilty but stress also my money situation as to why I misuse the freedom pass.

I was questioned and gave honest answers apart from the usage, which I believe is longer than I currently stated when being questioned due to the being caught.

I’m worried yes, concerned yes of what the outcome will be, never convicted of any offence before and i was 100% clean till this, especially being a man approaching half a century.

Any advice is welcome regardless of both negative and positive comments.

Thank you

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

You'll get more advice once the letter arrives, you can post it here together with your draft reply for proofreading. TfL may not worry unduly about you understating the number of journeys, lots of people seem to do that. But there's no point denying it if they ask you later.

One thing you can do is to make sure that you pay the right fare on any journey you make now and in the future.

I expect the experts will be here later with their thoughts?

 

[notthinking123]

Hi.

You'll get more advice once the letter arrives, you can post it here together with your draft reply for proofreading. TfL may not worry unduly about you understating the number of journeys, lots of people seem to do that. But there's no point denying it if they ask you later.

One thing you can do is to make sure that you pay the right fare on any journey you make now and in the future.

I expect the experts will be here later with their thoughts?

Thank you for your reply. Of course I will post send copy of letter and draft reply.

 

[30907]

Thank you for your reply. Of course I will post send copy of letter and draft reply.

And meanwhile, if you haven't already done so, please seek help with managing your money - apart from anything else, saying that you have done this might just make TfL more sympathetic, though as you will have realised, they are still likely to prosecute (for a one-off offence of not having a valid ticket).

 

[notthinking123]

And meanwhile, if you haven't already done so, please seek help with managing your money - apart from anything else, saying that you have done this might just make TfL more sympathetic, though as you will have realised, they are still likely to prosecute (for a one-off offence of not having a valid ticket).

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Freedom Passes very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

What happens next is TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to take into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

You can consider using a solicitor to assist you with your case. A solicitor cannot change what has happened but they might be able to present your mitigation in a better way than you feel able to do yourself. Solicitors don’t come cheap and you will still need to pay their fee even if they aren’t able to obtain a favourable outcome for you.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

When it arrives, post a copy of the verification letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details and case reference numbers before uploading.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[notthinking123]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Freedom Passes very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

What happens next is TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to take into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

You can consider using a solicitor to assist you with your case. A solicitor cannot change what has happened but they might be able to present your mitigation in a better way than you feel able to do yourself. Solicitors don’t come cheap and you will still need to pay their fee even if they aren’t able to obtain a favourable outcome for you.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

Thank you for replying. I’m certainly going to pled guilty and happy to pay the fine, but to stress my money difficulties. And express in the manner of my actions where wrong and to apologise for all the inconvenience.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for replying. I’m certainly going to pled guilty and happy to pay the fine, but to stress my money difficulties. And express in the manner of my actions where wrong and to apologise for all the inconvenience.

You cannot "plead guilty" to a verification letter, it does not ask for a plea - that is what happens when the summons/SJPN is issued. And it isn't guaranteed to get that far.

 

[notthinking123]

You cannot "plead guilty" to a verification letter, it does not ask for a plea - that is what happens when the summons/SJPN is issued. And it isn't guaranteed to get that far.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[pidgeonlove]

hi is there any update about this please? as i am in the same situation and i am so stressed out

 

[Elecman]

hi is there any update about this please? as i am in the same situation and i am so stressed out

Please start your own thread if you need any advice as no 2 cases are exactly the same and advise can be tailored to your individual case

 

[swt_passenger]

Please start your own thread if you need any advice as no 2 cases are exactly the same and advise can be tailored to your individual case

They have a thread that they started this morning.

 

[notthinking123]

Good evening everyone, I just wanted update you all on the outcome of my situation. I was sent a SJPN after Christmas, I pled guilty and waited for the outcome. Today I received the result of the court case, with a fine of £388.70. I was upfront about my situation and I was lucky to escape with this fine amount. I was expecting the worst. My advice is to any going through this, is not panic, don’t overthink nor over react listen to knowledge on here, but importantly be honest all the time and admit the mistake. Don’t waste your money on solicitor’s fees.

 

[island]

Thanks for coming back to let us know. Do be aware that you now have a criminal conviction, this may need to be declared for the next year.

 

[notthinking123]

It’s frustrating when people don’t update on the situation. Yes I’m aware but also A conviction under Byelaw 17(1) is non-recordable and spent immediately upon conviction

 

[WesternLancer]

It’s frustrating when people don’t update on the situation. Yes I’m aware but also A conviction under Byelaw 17(1) is non-recordable and spent immediately upon conviction

Did you complete the forms for the court to declare your income and expenditure? That can have an impact on reducing the fine sum if your income is low.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s frustrating when people don’t update on the situation. Yes I’m aware but also A conviction under Byelaw 17(1) is non-recordable and spent immediately upon conviction

A conviction under Bylaw 17 is spent after a year if the sentence was a fine. You therefore have an obligation to declare it if asked in certain circumstances until that time.

https://unlock.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/misc/ROA-Unlock-A3-Poster.pdf

 

[notthinking123]

Did you complete the forms for the court to declare your income and expenditure? That can have an impact on reducing the fine sum if your income is low.

Yes I did, again no point telling lies as they ask for NI number

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes I did, again no point telling lies as they ask for NI number

Thanks for clarifying.

Your update is very helpful so thanks for posting that info. I don’t think we see so many updates from cases that have gone to court.

Good luck for the future.

 

[notthinking123]

Thanks for clarifying.

Your update is very helpful so thanks for posting that info. I don’t think we see so many updates from cases that have gone to court.

Good luck for the future.

Thank you. As they say lessons learnt.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know, this is very useful information to know.

 

[notthinking123]

Thanks for letting us know, this is very useful information to know.

Thank you Hadders. You’re very knowledgeable. I certainly should have known better but it’s the nature of the beast to make mistakes especially during the cost of living crisis.

 

[island]

It’s frustrating when people don’t update on the situation. Yes I’m aware but also A conviction under Byelaw 17(1) is non-recordable

Correct

and spent immediately upon conviction

Not correct.

An offence punished by a fine is spent after one year.

 

[notthinking123]

Correct

Not correct.

An offence punished by a fine is spent after one year.

Thank you. It’s the same as a speeding offence, TV licence etc. Accept the punishment for wrong doing. But I hope the offenders learn not to panic, it’s a minor offence but the cost factor can be high. Even if I could afford a solicitors fee I wouldn’t bother because you could still end up with a fine.

 

[Leo12]

Thank you. It’s the same as a speeding offence, TV licence etc. Accept the punishment for wrong doing. But I hope the offenders learn not to panic, it’s a minor offence but the cost factor can be high. Even if I could afford a solicitors fee I wouldn’t bother because you could still end up with a fine.

Thank you for sharing an update on your case. I have been served with SJPN and I was about to hire solicitor service but after looking at your case may be I will change my mind. Could you also please confirm did you plead online or by post? And roughly how long did they took to give you the fine after pleading guilty. Secondly any idea after 1 year of this conviction and if we need to apply any visa or SIA licence do we still need to answer if a question says “Have you ever been convicted”. Thanks!

 

[notthinking123]

Thank you for sharing an update on your case. I have been served with SJPN and I was about to hire solicitor service but after looking at your case may be I will change my mind. Could you also please confirm did you plead online or by post? And roughly how long did they took to give you the fine after pleading guilty. Secondly any idea after 1 year of this conviction and if we need to apply any visa or SIA licence do we still need to answer if a question says “Have you ever been convicted”. Thanks!

I sent my plea by email and signed for by Royal Mail. Within 8 days I received the fine. Honestly can’t answer about this 1 year conviction, it’s a grey area where I read on various platforms it’s spent once the fine paid. I could be wrong. It’s non recordable offence meaning it will not show on either a basic and standard DBS check. It’s best to be truthful. Reading some posts and repliesi personally feel there’s a fear factor and doom and gloom involved when you have done wrong by using such a pass. Admit the offence and move on. The lessons have been learned and the consequences.

 

[Leo12]

I sent my plea by email and signed for by Royal Mail. Within 8 days I received the fine. Honestly can’t answer about this 1 year conviction, it’s a grey area where I read on various platforms it’s spent once the fine paid. I could be wrong. It’s non recordable offence meaning it will not show on either a basic and standard DBS check. It’s best to be truthful. Reading some posts and repliesi personally feel there’s a fear factor and doom and gloom involved when you have done wrong by using such a pass. Admit the offence and move on. The lessons have been learned and the consequences.

Thank. So you sent your plea through both ways email and by post? Yes you are right there is a grey area about declaration of conviction after 1 year. And there is also confusion about record on DBS check. Some people I have seen said that their fare evasion conviction didnt show up on the DBS but some said it is showing on their DBS. So dont know what is right and what is wrong.

 

[dosxuk]

Secondly any idea after 1 year of this conviction and if we need to apply any visa or SIA licence do we still need to answer if a question says “Have you ever been convicted”. Thanks!

While this is veering close to visa advice, I think it's safe to say if a visa application says "have you ever been convicted" this needs answering truthfully and saying "yes". "Have you ever been convicted?" is a different question to "Do you have any unspent convictions?". People can, and are, banned from making further visa applications from mixing up those two questions. Seek advice from a professional when it comes to visa applications if you are at all unsure.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank. So you sent your plea through both ways email and by post? Yes you are right there is a grey area about declaration of conviction after 1 year. And there is also confusion about record on DBS check. Some people I have seen said that their fare evasion conviction didnt show up on the DBS but some said it is showing on their DBS. So dont know what is right and what is wrong.

An Enhanced DBS is role-specific so there is no hard and fast answer - the disclosing officer has to make a decision as to whether they feel the conviction is relevant for the role and employer involved.

any idea after 1 year of this conviction and if we need to apply any visa

Nobody here can give you specific immigration advice but you should know that the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to visa applications, either here, or overseas. You should contact a solicitor qualified in these matters for proper advice, because giving the wrong information or concealing criminal offences when asked regarding your visa can have very severe consequences.

or SIA licence do we still need to answer if a question says “Have you ever been convicted”. Thanks!

Yes. The SIA is not subject to the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and you must declare it to them, regardless of whether the conviction is spent or unspent. They will be able to see your criminal record when you apply so you must be honest.