List of last stations in Zone 6?

[TheManOnThe172]

I am helping someone with a Disabled Freedom Pass plan a journey from Euston to Tring. Trainsplit.com gives an error for this journey so I am trying ring to work it out for myself.

Buying a Boundary Zone 6 ticket is tricky, and sometimes is is only a few pence more from the last Zone 6 station.

For Tring, the map shows Hatch End as a candidate, but RTT does not show it as a passing point.

Is there a reliable list showing last stations in Zone 6 for each line?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not sure if a list exists as such ( until someone on here manually writes one ), but could this person not just buy a boundary zone 6 extension at the ticket office at Euston before departure?

That's what I do if I need to go beyond the zone with a Travelcard, which will be a very similar ticketing situation.

I've never had to queue for longer than ten minutes there.

 

[Hadders]

Personally I'd always buy a Boudary Zone ticket uness there was a significant price difference. The zone 6 boundary stations are:

Hadley Wood
Crews Hill
Turkey Street
Enfield Lock
Harold Wood
Upminster
Rainham (Essex)
Slade Green
Barnehurst
Crayford
St Mary Cray
Orpington Knockholt
Upper Warlingham
Coulsdon South
Ewell East
Ewell West
Surbiton
Hampton
Feltham
West Drayton
West Ruislip
Moor Park
Hatch End
Elstree & Borehamwood

 

[alistairlees]

It's Knockholt, not Orpington.

 

[Hadders]

It's Knockholt, not Orpington.

Thanks! List updated, I knew there's be at least wrong I'd misremembered!

 

[Watershed]

I am helping someone with a Disabled Freedom Pass plan a journey from Euston to Tring. Trainsplit.com gives an error for this journey so I am trying ring to work it out for myself.

Buying a Boundary Zone 6 ticket is tricky, and sometimes is is only a few pence more from the last Zone 6 station.

For Tring, the map shows Hatch End as a candidate, but RTT does not show it as a passing point.

Is there a reliable list showing last stations in Zone 6 for each line?

Until the day of operation, Real Time Trains only shows the planned timing points contained in a given train's schedule.

Apart from locations where they stop, trains are only timed at 'mandatory' or 'conditional' timings points. To cut a long story short, these generally include major stations or junctions, rather than every intermediate station.

It's only on the day of operation that Real Time Trains "fills in the blanks" by adding interpolated timings for intermediate stations/junctions etc. that aren't in the schedule.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think the other factor is that Hatch End is on the 'DC line', so it won't show up as a timing point for trains on the mainline.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

Thanks all.

How pedantic is the "passes through" rule?

I see "Colusdon South" on the list, which is clearly correct for slow line trains. But the Quarry line does not pass through Coulsdon South. Do users of fast trains need to buy a ticket from Purley, or is there some easement?

 

[alholmes]

Regarding the OPs original question, the OP could use their Freedom Pass on London Overground All the way to Watford Junction, and change there for LNR to Tring.

 

[thomasheywood]

Thanks all.

How pedantic is the "passes through" rule?

I see "Colusdon South" on the list, which is clearly correct for slow line trains. But the Quarry line does not pass through Coulsdon South. Do users of fast trains need to buy a ticket from Purley, or is there some easement?

Neither, fares from East Croydon are the same as from Coulsdon South.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Thanks all.

How pedantic is the "passes through" rule?

I see "Colusdon South" on the list, which is clearly correct for slow line trains. But the Quarry line does not pass through Coulsdon South. Do users of fast trains need to buy a ticket from Purley, or is there some easement?

From previous discussion on this here and elsewhere, my understanding is that the 'passes through' rule is not that pedantic!

My take would be if - on an official passenger-facing map / route diagram - it's either shown as one line, or if multiple lines they are all shown side-by-side, then for ticketing purposes it's one route even if in actuality there might be more than one alignment.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks all.

How pedantic is the "passes through" rule?

I see "Colusdon South" on the list, which is clearly correct for slow line trains. But the Quarry line does not pass through Coulsdon South. Do users of fast trains need to buy a ticket from Purley, or is there some easement?

I'm pretty sure you'd need a Boundary Zone 6 extension for that... the two lines are physically separate on that stretch, unlike Hatch End where the DC Lines are adjacent to and on the same formation as on the main line. @yorkie - have I got that right?

 

[Haywain]

I'm pretty sure you'd need a Boundary Zone 6 extension for that... the two lines are physically separate on that stretch, unlike Hatch End where the DC Lines are adjacent to and on the same formation as on the main line. @yorkie - have I got that right?

Having a Boundary Zone 6 ticket removes all of these complications, as that is what they are designed for. And, as pointed out above, the Coulsdon South question is rendered irrelevant by fares generally being the same from East Croydon.

 

[redreni]

Having a Boundary Zone 6 ticket removes all of these complications, as that is what they are designed for. And, as pointed out above, the Coulsdon South question is rendered irrelevant by fares generally being the same from East Croydon.

Although, in order to know you can use an East Croydon ticket in conjunction with a Travelcard or Freedom Pass for a non-stop split, you'd have to know that the stipulation in NRCoT about the last station at which the first ticket is valid and the first station at which the second ticket is valid having to be the same, is not enforced when there is overlapping validity.

 

[Haywain]

you'd have to know that the stipulation in NRCoT about the last station at which the first ticket is valid and the first station at which the second ticket is valid having to be the same, is not enforced when there is overlapping validity.

I don't think that's really of any relevance. The Freedom Pass can be used for any journey within the TfL zones, so the important thing is simply to have tickets to cover the full journey. The Freedom Pass is therefore valid to whichever station the holder wants to use it to get to.

 

[redreni]

I don't think that's really of any relevance. The Freedom Pass can be used for any journey within the TfL zones, so the important thing is simply to have tickets to cover the full journey. The Freedom Pass is therefore valid to whichever station the holder wants to use it to get to.

It's not relevant in the Dorking example because the train is always going to call at East Croydon, so that's a split under Condition 14.2 and consequently the requirement under 14.3 for the last station at which the Freedom Pass is valid to be the same as the first station at which the point-to-point ticket is valid doesn't apply. The two tickets together cover the journey, and the train calls at the split point, so that's fine.

If you change the destination to Gatwick Airport or Brighton and use the Gatwick Express, though, you then have a non-stop split at East Croydon, and anyone reading the relevant provision in the NRCoT would think the combination of a Freedom Pass and an East Croydon to Brighton ticket would not be valid, because the train doesn't call at the split point and East Croydon is not the last station at which the Freedom Pass is valid.

It's good that this is not enforced, because it's a ridiculous rule, but it's really hard to see what (if anything) that stipulation in 14.3 means if it's not intended to rule out non-stop splits with overlapping validity?

 

[infobleep]

It's not relevant in the Dorking example because the train is always going to call at East Croydon, so that's a split under Condition 14.2 and consequently the requirement under 14.3 for the last station at which the Freedom Pass is valid to be the same as the first station at which the point-to-point ticket is valid doesn't apply. The two tickets together cover the journey, and the train calls at the split point, so that's fine.

If you change the destination to Gatwick Airport or Brighton and use the Gatwick Express, though, you then have a non-stop split at East Croydon, and anyone reading the relevant provision in the NRCoT would think the combination of a Freedom Pass and an East Croydon to Brighton ticket would not be valid, because the train doesn't call at the split point and East Croydon is not the last station at which the Freedom Pass is valid.

It's good that this is not enforced, because it's a ridiculous rule, but it's really hard to see what (if anything) that stipulation in 14.3 means if it's not intended to rule out non-stop splits with overlapping validity?

I thought freedom passes were treated like season tickets and one didn't need to stop at thr split station.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

 

[redreni]

I thought freedom passes were treated like season tickets and one didn't need to stop at thr split station.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

They are and you don't (and I know that because it specifically says this on the Gatwick Express website).

London Freedom Pass

Free travel with a London Freedom Pass is only valid on Gatwick Express services between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport under the following conditions:

• An extension ticket must be purchased before travelling to cover your journey outside the London Freedom Pass zone between Coulsdon South and Gatwick Airport

What I'm saying is the suggestion, above, to use East Croydon rather than Coulsdon South as the origin for an extension ticket - on a non-stop split under 14.3 NRCoT - is technically invalid. Not because non-stop splits aren't permitted in these circumstances - they are - but because the last station at which the Freedom Pass is valid is Coulsdon South not East Croydon, so the criteria for a split under Condition 14.3 are not met.

 

[infobleep]

They are and you don't (and I know that because it specifically says this on the Gatwick Express website).



What I'm saying is the suggestion, above, to use East Croydon rather than Coulsdon South as the origin for an extension ticket - on a non-stop split under 14.3 NRCoT - is technically invalid. Not because non-stop splits aren't permitted in these circumstances - they are - but because the last station at which the Freedom Pass is valid is Coulsdon South not East Croydon, so the criteria for a split under Condition 14.3 are not met.

So if using the quary line, one should buy their ticket from Coulsdon South, even though it isn't on the quary line. I'm confused.

 

[Joe Paxton]

So if using the quary line, one should buy their ticket from Coulsdon South, even though it isn't on the quary line. I'm confused.

So, job done - confusion is the aim of the game!

 

[yorkie]

I see "Colusdon South" on the list, which is clearly correct for slow line trains. But the Quarry line does not pass through Coulsdon South. Do users of fast trains need to buy a ticket from Purley, or is there some easement?

There is no need for an easement if travelling to somewhere like Gatwick (or beyond), as Coulsdon South to Gatwick is valid all the way via East Croydon (including doubling back through Purley), as East Croydon passes the fares check rule.

However it may be less confusing to simply buy a ticket from East Croydon, which is the same price.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

So if using the quary line, one should buy their ticket from Coulsdon South, even though it isn't on the quary line. I'm confused.

It makes no difference to the price, or validity, if you buy from CDS, Purley or Croydon Stations.