PRIV tickets on DOO services with no ticket office at origin & destination?

[WAB]

Without buying online, how would I travel on a PRIV in the following circumstances?

- Unstaffed GN station (e.g., Crews Hill) via GN (no guard) to Old Street/Moorgate (LU station with no NR booking office)

- Unstaffed GN station (e.g., Crews Hill) via GN (no guard) to unstaffed Southern station (changing at an LU station with no NR booking office)

 

[OneOfThe48]

Purchase it online to collect at the station?

 

[Info ninja]

Without buying online, how would I travel on a PRIV in the following circumstances?

- Unstaffed GN station (e.g., Crews Hill) via GN (no guard) to Old Street/Moorgate (LU station with no NR booking office)

- Unstaffed GN station (e.g., Crews Hill) via GN (no guard) to unstaffed Southern station (changing at an LU station with no NR booking office)

You can buy them from RST online

 

[Starmill]

You can buy them from RST online

Did you see the first part of the post?

You can buy them from RST online

Again, did you see what they said? Maybe they don't have an account?

 

[Info ninja]

Did you see the first part of the post?

Again, did you see what they said? Maybe they don't have an account?

I've seen what they've wrote and my response is to dissmiss their nonsesne of "not having an account" becasue when they get caught by an RPO that excuse doesn't work. You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

 

[Haywain]

You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

Not everone who has Priv entitlement is a rail employee and not all of those people can have a RST Online account - for example TfL staff don't have that account.

 

[Watershed]

RSTL's instructions say you should board the train and buy your ticket at the first opportunity:

Only if the ticket office is closed, and there is no local ‘promise to pay’ in use, can you buy a Priv-rate ticket on board a train. You must actively seek out staff on-board the train, have your fare ready and offer to pay it at the first available opportunity. By offering to pay there can be no question that you are trying to travel without paying.

It doesn't address what you should do if you are on train without any onboard staff (except the driver), and have boarded at an unstaffed station without a 'promise to pay' or 'permit to travel' facility.

Underground stations can't issue Priv-discounted National Rail tickets in any event (AFAIK), so in reality I suspect you would not have an opportunity to pay on this journey, and would have to be let out of the barriers at Moorgate for free. There might be a "discussion" though.

 

[Starmill]

I've seen what they've wrote and my response is to dissmiss their nonsesne of "not having an account" becasue when they get caught by an RPO that excuse doesn't work. You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

I'm afraid this is rather far from reality. Have you referred to the conditions recently as it sounds like you haven't?

 

[Watershed]

I've seen what they've wrote and my response is to dissmiss their nonsesne of "not having an account" becasue when they get caught by an RPO that excuse doesn't work. You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

The RSTL guidance is clear that there is no requirement to use the online site (except for non-safeguarded Network Rail staff, for whom it's the only way to access their facilities).

Please only post if you have an answer that is backed up by sources, and that actually helps the OP.

 

[Starmill]

RSTL's instructions say you should board the train and buy your ticket at the first opportunity:


It doesn't address what you should do if you are on train without any onboard staff (except the driver), and have boarded at an unstaffed station without a 'promise to pay' or 'permit to travel' facility.

Underground stations can't issue Priv-discounted National Rail tickets in any event (AFAIK), so in reality I suspect you would not have an opportunity to pay on this journey, and would have to be let out of the barriers at Moorgate for free. There might be a "discussion" though.

Indeed.

The circumstances have little to do with the discount entitlement held either, it would be exactly the same with any other kind of tickets not offered by the ticket machine when joining at an unstaffed station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Mar 2025 ==

Not everone who has Priv entitlement is a rail employee and not all of those people can have a RST Online account - for example TfL staff don't have that account.

There are probably quite a few people who haven't got access to one. People who've only just started, people who've retired but live abroad, people who are entitled by some non railway route such as your example. There are probably others like preserved railway employees or ferry pass holders.

 

[OneOfThe48]

RSTL's instructions say you should board the train and buy your ticket at the first opportunity:


It doesn't address what you should do if you are on train without any onboard staff (except the driver), and have boarded at an unstaffed station without a 'promise to pay' or 'permit to travel' facility.

Underground stations can't issue Priv-discounted National Rail tickets in any event (AFAIK), so in reality I suspect you would not have an opportunity to pay on this journey, and would have to be let out of the barriers at Moorgate for free. There might be a "discussion" though.

They could also, if they are able to, travel to an adjacent station with a ticket office such as Cuffley or Gordon Hill and buy their ticket there.

Not ideal, but would mean an easier journey.

 

[Starmill]

They could also, if they are able to, travel to an adjacent station with a ticket office such as Cuffley or Gordon Hill and buy their ticket there.

Not ideal, but would mean an easier journey.

Indeed. Or purchase the tickets at Liverpool Street station instead.

 

[Deepgreen]

I've seen what they've wrote and my response is to dissmiss their nonsesne of "not having an account" becasue when they get caught by an RPO that excuse doesn't work. You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

I would suggest that you check; a) your 'facts' before posting quite aggressively, and; b) your typing.

 

[Starmill]

The RSTL guidance is clear that there is no requirement to use the online site (except for non-safeguarded Network Rail staff, for whom it's the only way to access their facilities).

Please only post if you have an answer that is backed up by sources, and that actually helps the OP.

For many of these kinds of journey a priv discount on an Oyster card would also be the best option. But the industry has, as is so often the way, made that so awkward to actually achieve by reducing the number of locations where it can be done to a tiny handful of Elizabeth line stations and also restricting the hours massively. They also do their best not to help you even then, for example by insisting that a card isn't registered even when it is, or by applying their own invented conditions such as that the card has to have been used to make a journey to activate it before the discount can be added.

 

[WAB]

They could also, if they are able to, travel to an adjacent station with a ticket office such as Cuffley or Gordon Hill and buy their ticket there.

Not ideal, but would mean an easier journey.

Indeed. Or purchase the tickets at Liverpool Street station instead.

I’d be quite amenable to this solution were it not for the half hourly frequency and a distinct lack of open booking offices on the GN Inners in the afternoon/on weekends. I’d also be amenable to travelling to Liverpool Street if that’s near my destination but that’d rely on Underground staff letting me out, and I think it’s been established that LU staff aren’t always very clued up about NR tickets.

 

[Starmill]

I’d be quite amenable to this solution were it not for the half hourly frequency and a distinct lack of open booking offices on the GN Inners in the afternoon/on weekends. I’d also be amenable to travelling to Liverpool Street if that’s near my destination but that’d rely on Underground staff letting me out, and I think it’s been established that LU staff aren’t always very clued up about NR tickets.

If you are trying to get out from, rather than into, an Underground station, they're included to give you hassle then let you go "just this once", or some such nonsense. You can safely ignore them if that's what happens.

 

[Krokodil]

For many of these kinds of journey a priv discount on an Oyster card would also be the best option. But the industry has, as is so often the way, made that so awkward to actually achieve by reducing the number of locations where it can be done to a tiny handful of Elizabeth line stations and also restricting the hours massively. They also do their best not to help you even then, for example by insisting that a card isn't registered even when it is, or by applying their own invented conditions such as that the card has to have been used to make a journey to activate it before the discount can be added.

Is Priv Oyster only a safeguarded staff thing?

On the subject of obtaining Priv tickets, if I landed at Heathrow and wanted to travel home is it possible to buy Privs (which would necessarily be CCST ones due to crossing London) from Heathrow? Is there a proper ticket office there? This is all on the assumption that the outward flight would have been from a different airport so it would be a single rather than a return.

 

[Starmill]

Is Priv Oyster only a safeguarded staff thing?

It may have been once, I think?

However if you go to the latest issue of the Rail Staff Leisure Card guide and scroll down to page 40 it's referenced there along with the instructions.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/images/RST/RST_Guide_Rail_Staff_Leisure_Card_v30.pdf

It doesn't grant any Priv rate travel on London Underground or the DLR. Safeguarded staff may be entitled to that.

 

[Haywain]

Is Priv Oyster only a safeguarded staff thing?

No, it isn't, but the discounts are very different. Also the processes for applying the discount to an Oyster card are very different.

 

[Starmill]

On the subject of obtaining Priv tickets, if I landed at Heathrow and wanted to travel home is it possible to buy Privs (which would necessarily be CCST ones due to crossing London) from Heathrow? Is there a proper ticket office there? This is all on the assumption that the outward flight would have been from a different airport so it would be a single rather than a return.

I'm fairly sure Heathrow Express staff can issue Priv tickets. However they may only be willing or able to issue them to London Paddington.

 

[Horizon22]

In my experience, you can't. Need to work out some way to buy it before the time/date you want to travel. Or get your priv on an Oyster at an Elizabeth line station (best ones are those on GWML).

The amount of safeguarded staff is very quickly becoming a tiny percentage.

 

[Starmill]

In my experience, you can't. Need to work out some way to buy it before the time/date you want to travel. Or get your priv on an Oyster at an Elizabeth line station (best ones are those on GWML).

But only between 1000 and 1500 Monday - Saturday. And only Paddington, Ealing Broadway, Southall, Hayes & Harlington or West Drayton.

 

[Horizon22]

But only between 1000 and 1500 Monday - Saturday. And only Paddington, Ealing Broadway, Southall, Hayes & Harlington or West Drayton.

It does seem odd its been so highly restricted because theoretically this can be done by anyone with the right access which includes lots of TfL stations and various staff at those stations. Can partly understand the need to be certain to resource someone but it is still excessive.

 

[jamiearmley]

I've seen what they've wrote and my response is to dissmiss their nonsesne of "not having an account" becasue when they get caught by an RPO that excuse doesn't work. You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

There is no requirement for any passenger to purchase tickets online, and that includes rail staff -(with the exception of non safeguarded network rail staff using the RST ONLINE LEISURE CARD).

As a member of TOC rail staff, I refuse to use the online portal , for 2 main reasons:

1. It's another nail in the coffin for those of my colleagues whose role includes retailing tickets - and the disappearance of those staff will affect a far wider range of vulnerable passengers in the long run.

2. Because I don't have to.

Your description of the consequences applicable to the OP's original scenario seems at odds with the rules applying to staff travel.

 

[Starmill]

It does seem odd its been so highly restricted because theoretically this can be done by anyone with the right access which includes lots of TfL stations and various staff at those stations. Can partly understand the need to be certain to resource someone but it is still excessive.

Yes. For example there doesn't appear to be even one single London Overground location... except for the Liberty line of course...

Now I don't condone anyone using a Rail Staff Leisure Card to get free travel when it explicitly doesn't provide free travel on London Overground. But if they're going to make it this painful to actually pay correctly by refusing to offer a single location to get the discount added, and most stations having no or very limited staffed ticket sales hours, then I can almost see why some people go down the route of flashing the priv and fare evading...

 

[philthetube]

It only becomes fare evasion when you pass an opportunity to pay, I used to travel Harrow to Gt Missenden weekly, for about two years and never paid once, I was quite happy to but never had the opportunity after LUL closed the ticket office at Harrow.

 

[Krokodil]

Now I don't condone anyone using a Rail Staff Leisure Card to get free travel when it explicitly doesn't provide free travel on London Overground. But if they're going to make it this painful to actually pay correctly by refusing to offer a single location to get the discount added, and most stations having no or very limited staffed ticket sales hours, then I can almost see why some people go down the route of flashing the priv and fare evading...

Ultimately if there are no facilities to purchase the ticket the passenger needs then they're entitled to travel without first purchasing until they get to a place where a ticket can be purchased (and they aren't obliged to miss a connection to do so). If someone travels between two stations without purchasing facilities then what can they possibly have done to get a ticket? They aren't obliged to go online. Presumably they would be obliged to use a PERTIS machine where provided.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed I don't disagree with any of that at all, it's the same thing as would apply for any unavailable ticket.

 

[WAB]

I've seen what they've wrote and my response is to dissmiss their nonsesne of "not having an account" becasue when they get caught by an RPO that excuse doesn't work. You're a rail employee, you know the T&C's for using your PRIV and you KNOW there is a way to get tickets for DO services and unmanned stations online, i bet they have a smart phone right?.....Caught, diciplined and PRIV passes removed for 5 years. Good Luck.

As others have said, there is no obligation to use the website. Have you ever tried using the RSTL website on a smartphone, in a hurry and outside? It's not easy. There might also be up to two hours of waiting for the TOD to be ready to print. That is not reasonable, and I doubt it's something you'd even consider doing yourself in your part of the world.

 

[WirralLine]

Have you ever tried using the RSTL website on a smartphone, in a hurry and outside? It's not easy.

I certainly have - my first experience using it was late at night, Manchester Piccadilly, trying to catch the last Northern service to Chester via Stockport. No offices open so couldn't buy priv rate, don't fancy my chances with the carlisle rent-a-thugs etc so decided to try it out. I found it much easier to use by enabling "view desktop site" in my phones browser, I couldn't get it to work in mobile mode it kept getting stuck on the card details page.