Vertical InterCity tickets in the 1980s

[AY1975]

There have already been a number of threads on here about various past ticket issuing systems and ticket formats, such as:

INTIS: www.railforums.co.uk/threads/intis-intermediate-ticket-issuing-system.282704

Tickets the size of an airline boarding card (similar to standard SNCF ticket stock): www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ticket-the-size-of-an-airline-boarding-card.251914

Square national rail tickets: www.railforums.co.uk/threads/square-national-rail-tickets.281463

I also recall that for a time in the early to mid 1980s, InterCity tickets were sometimes issued on ticket stock with the same red/orange border still found on standard credit card-sized ticket (CCST) stock today but in a vertical (i.e. portrait) format as opposed to the more usual horizontal or landscape CCST format. On the back it said "Your ticket has been validated to make it good for travel. The abbreviations used mean:" and there was then a list of abbreviations used for the different ticket types. IIRC those tickets were about 7cm across and 12cm top to bottom.

What ticket issuing system was this?

 

[Dr Hoo]

NCR51 (as distinct from NCR21 for Edmondson-sizes) IIRC?

 

[AndrewE]

NCR51 IIRC?

which were like a big old-fashioned cash register, where the clerk pushed the buttons to set up the ticket details and the price and set it to print on the card inserted at the top RHS. I presume it had an internal till roll too.
Quite a clever fraud was perpetrated by a ticket clerk at Temple Meads not long after I moved on from there. Not so clever though, as it was game set and match straight after it was first noticed.

p.s. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19607413...55-0&campid=5338722076&customid=&toolid=10050 shows it a ticket and the back...

 

[AY1975]

I also seem to recall that InterCity Sleeper tickets were issued on NCR51 ticket stock in the 1970s and early 80s. The bottom part of the ticket was blue and had a big "2" in white on a blue background for 2nd class tickets or a "1" for 1st class.

Some of those tickets have also occasionally turned up on eBay.

 

[crablab]

I believe this is what you're referring to

(There's a lot more "vertical" tickets - I'll post photos later)

 

[Beebman]

I've got a lot of these which I've kept in my collection but they're mostly from regular journeys I made from my local station Twyford to either Paddington or Reading. However I've a few which are different and I've attached them in 2 photos. Of interest in the first photo is one issued at Peterborough on the former DMU shuttle which ran to Orton Mere on the NVR, and the second ticket was issued at Fort William for The West Highlander, the original BR Scotrail version of The Jacobite.

 

[AY1975]

I believe this is what you're referring to
View attachment 176356
(There's a lot more "vertical" tickets - I'll post photos later)

It is indeed.

 

[AndrewE]

The machine itself: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/42697695491/ and apparently there is apparently one in York Museum store, viewable by appointment.

 

[AY1975]

The machine itself: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/42697695491/ and apparently there is apparently one in York Museum store, viewable by appointment.

In the comments it says the Southern and London Midland Regions didn't use NCR51, and that larger stations on those regions used Handiprinters. I certainly remember having NCR51 format tickets from Euston to Manchester in the 1980s, though.

 

[The exile]

Quite a clever fraud was perpetrated by a ticket clerk at Temple Meads not long after I moved on from there. Not so clever though, as it was game set and match straight after it was first noticed.

Was that the 1987 IC 21st anniversary business?

 

[AndrewE]

Was that the 1987 IC 21st anniversary business?

no... it was in about 1976 and was (I think) just one individual's initiative.

 

[Falcon1200]

IIRC the Southern Region used NCR 21 machines, which printed Edmonson size tickets. Large stations had Multiprinters, which I sadly never experienced.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Southern Region travel centres and the "town offices" had NCR51 machines.

Town offices refers to King William Street, Strand, Lower Regent Street, and Victoria Street British Rail travel offices.

 

[Springs Branch]

I remember those tickets. Compared to some of the alternative ticket formats around at the time, I always thought these were quite a 'classy' thing to be issued with for a long & expensive Inter-City journey to exotic destinations like Glasgow or Birmingham.

At the time I used to be slightly bemused that it was the destination station which was pre-printed and the origin station was the one custom-printed at the issuing location. This meant every ticket office needed quite a large inventory of blank tickets to individual destinations all around the country. Wouldn't it be easier to have a single stock of blank tickets with the local origin's name pre-printed, then for the machine to custom print any required destination onto that?

Now, years later, looking at these examples and the photo of the NCR51 machine itself, I'm assuming the reason was that the ticket printers used some sort of fixed metal slug to print the 'From' field (which also included the BR double arrows and possibly the machine number too). The machine's capability was restricted to printing just numerals plus the date as dial-up variables, along with limited info like R2 selected by pressing one of a small range of cash-register-style buttons.

My idea - having to store and find the right metal slug for many potential destinations - would have been a more time-consuming and fiddly process than picking out a decent-sized pre-printed card or two from an alphabetical rack.

 

[Helvellyn]

I remember those tickets. Compared to some of the alternative ticket formats around at the time, I always thought these were quite a 'classy' thing to be issued with for a long & expensive Inter-City journey to exotic destinations like Glasgow or Birmingham.

At the time I used to be slightly bemused that it was the destination station which was pre-printed and the origin station was the one custom-printed at the issuing location. This meant every ticket office needed quite a large inventory of blank tickets to individual destinations all around the country. Wouldn't it be easier to have a single stock of blank tickets with the local origin's name pre-printed, then for the machine to custom print any required destination onto that?

Now, years later, looking at these examples and the photo of the NCR51 machine itself, I'm assuming the reason was that the ticket printers used some sort of fixed metal slug to print the 'From' field (which also included the BR double arrows and possibly the machine number too). The machine's capability was restricted to printing just numerals plus the date as dial-up variables, along with limited info like R2 selected by pressing one of a small range of cash-register-style buttons.

My idea - having to store and find the right metal slug for many potential destinations - would have been a more time-consuming and fiddly process than picking out a decent-sized pre-printed card or two from an alphabetical rack.

I'm wondering if it was an anti-fraud measure not to have the original pre-printed? Given not every destination could be covered by the pre-printed tickets having the origin pre-printed could have allowed for some stock to be "mislaid" and then the destinations be hand written in. This way the original was only printed when the ticket was properly issued from the machine.

 

[181]

I remember those tickets. Compared to some of the alternative ticket formats around at the time, I always thought these were quite a 'classy' thing to be issued with for a long & expensive Inter-City journey to exotic destinations like Glasgow or Birmingham.

I remember being surprised to get them in August 1983 for a journey between the cities of Oban and Crianlarich. (Post #6 has some not very inter-city examples too).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

On the West Highland, Mallaig, Fort William and Oban all had NCR51 (and clerical staff) whilst all the staffed outstations had stocks of edmonson cards (plus paper tickets) sold by signalling staff

From Oban, assuming Crianlarich was printed stock rather than hand written, would have printed stock for a fairly wide range of (relatively) frequently purchased destinations.

Mallaig for instance did have printed tickets for the nearby metropolis of Morar as these were issued probably every day, and Oban would likely have had Connel, Taynuilt and Dalmally as frequent local destinations.

 

[Ken H]

I remember these at Leeds. The booking office clerk had a wheeled box with the often used destinations. Behind them there was a long rack of other destinations. He also had a machine like a bell punch solomatic which issued edmondson size paper tickets for very often used destinations.
He would also have a srlective fares manual and a pair of scisors.
So i go and buy a ticket to hebden bridge. He gets a blank out, and at the back of the Hebden Bridge tickets there is a card, bigger than the tickets, with prices.
So he has the destination code (printed in the fares manual and on the ticket( and price. So he types in that data, ticket type, and the date if not today. Puts the blank into the machine and it prints the ticket, and the till roll. He then cut the corner off if it was a single.
The till roll was printed on those funny numbers you see at the bottom of cheques so its machine readable but that wasnt that reliable, I believe.

If there was no printed ticket, or for a ticket not starting at the issuing ststion her would hand write the ticket and get the station codes and prices from his fares manual. He would have to make the machine write 3 lines of data for starting station code, destination code and price and ticket type.