Cheap Ticket for Wrexham or Chester > London on 18th

[NorthWalian]

Hi forumites

It appears that trainsplit is bugged so I am having problems arranging travel.

I need to be in Euston for 9:00 on the 7th and then leave again after 17:00 (can wait longer if needed)

I have a 16-25 railcard yet by default when I search I get a price over £100

Yet for some reason when I exclude Avanti the price goes down to £48 before fees

There is a route that departs the same time but arrives at 9:17 with the same return but the price then can be £22.90

Why do these not show by default and despite the £22.90 both being advance tickets London> Chester they don’t show elsewhere?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2025 ==

Just bumping

 

[sonic2009]

Welcome to the forum. Which route is giving you the £22.90 return Wrexham - London Euston?

The first departure from Wrexham for a London arrival of 0906 is via Shrewsbury/Wolverhampton with TFW and Avanti.

If you are to exclude Avanti the first arrival from Wrexham to London is 1017 changing at Birmingham New Street and using TFW/LNWR

Unfortunately travelling at Peak Times can be expensive even with a railcard.

 

[NorthWalian]

Welcome to the forum. Which route is giving you the £22.90 return Wrexham - London Euston?

The first departure from Wrexham for a London arrival of 0906 is via Shrewsbury/Wolverhampton with TFW and Avanti.

If you are to exclude Avanti the first arrival from Wrexham to London is 1017 changing at Birmingham New Street and using TFW/LNWR

Unfortunately travelling at Peak Times can be expensive even with a railcard.

I am fine with either Wrexham or Chester

The cheap route is from Chester.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presume the £22.90 advance tickets are essentially two tickets both routed "AP TfW & LM Only" and both priced at £11.45 each, this after 16-25 railcard discount has been applied, with one needed for each one-way journey between Chester and Euston.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The £11.45 Advance Single Chester-Euston on the 18th appears on Trainsplit if you exclude Avanti.
The only option at that fare to get you to London around 0900 is 0448 TfW Chester-Crewe, 0545 WMT Crewe-Rugby and 0746 WMT Rugby-Euston arr 0917.
But there's 34 minutes wait at Crewe, 40 minutes at Rugby, and then a detour via Northampton.

The rather better return options at the same fare apply to the xx46 WMT departures from Euston, changing into TfW at Crewe with typically a 25 minute wait.
The Advance fare could be as high as £52 depending on availability (if available at all).

Don't forget that from Flint you can get an off-peak return for £72.55, valid on trains arriving Euston after 1000, including Avanti (code VK).
This is much less restrictive than tickets from Chester or Wrexham which have the same off-peak fare but have an after-1130 arrival at Euston restriction, and also have afternoon restrictions (code 2C).
But on VK coded tickets you can't start/end short (ie buy a ticket from Flint and board/leave at Chester/Wrexham) as break of journey is not allowed.

 

[NorthWalian]

Presume the £22.90 advance tickets are essentially two tickets both routed "AP TfW & LM Only" and both priced at £11.45 each, this after 16-25 railcard discount has been applied, with one needed for each one-way journey between Chester and Euston.

This is correct.

I am fine with not using Avanti but just need to arrive before 9:17 and I am wondering why I have to exclude avanti for it to show up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2025 ==

The £11.45 Advance Single Chester-Euston on the 18th appears on Trainsplit if you exclude Avanti.
The only option at that fare to get you to London around 0900 is 0448 TfW Chester-Crewe, 0545 WMT Crewe-Rugby and 0746 WMT Rugby-Euston arr 0917.
But there's 34 minutes wait at Crewe, 40 minutes at Rugby, and then a detour via Northampton.

The rather better return options at the same fare apply to the xx46 WMT departures from Euston, changing into TfW at Crewe with typically a 25 minute wait.
The Advance fare could be as high as £52 depending on availability (if available at all).

Don't forget that from Flint you can get an off-peak return for £72.55, valid on trains arriving Euston after 1000, including Avanti (code VK).
This is much less restrictive than tickets from Chester or Wrexham which have the same off-peak fare but have an after-1130 arrival at Euston restriction, and also have afternoon restrictions (code 2C).
But on VK coded tickets you can't start/end short (ie buy a ticket from Flint and board/leave at Chester/Wrexham) as break of journey is not allowed.

Is the website broken at the moment as shouldn’t the cheapest ticket come up by itself?

Going to Flint would be a hassle plus I’m trying to get there before 9:10

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is correct.
I am fine with not using Avanti but just need to arrive before 9:17 and I am wondering why I have to exclude avanti for it to show up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2025 ==

Is the website broken at the moment as shouldn’t the cheapest ticket come up by itself?
Going to Flint would be a hassle plus I’m trying to get there before 9:10

To reach Euston by 0910 you need to use Avanti, and the cheapest fares don't apply.
I can see an £85 fare on Trainsplit (0556 TfW to Crewe, 0631 Avanti arr Euston 0810.
You can book the £11.45 fare back to Chester separately (WMT/TfW).

It's unfortunate that Avanti axed the early Holyhead-Euston (was 0632 from Chester).
That used to join with a Blackpool portion at Crewe to get you to Euston by 0840.
Now there is only the Blackpool portion, and there is not even a connection from Chester.

 

[NorthWalian]

To reach Euston by 0910 you need to use Avanti, and the cheapest fares don't apply.
I can see an £85 fare on Trainsplit (0556 TfW to Crewe, 0631 Avanti arr Euston 0810.
You can book the £11.45 fare back to Chester separately (WMT/TfW).

It's unfortunate that Avanti axed the early Holyhead-Euston (was 0632 from Chester).
That used to join with a Blackpool portion at Crewe to get you to Euston by 0840.
Now there is only the Blackpool portion, and there is not even a connection from Chester.

Yeah the site is broken then

For some reason I have to exclude avanti to show the better options.

There is a TFW/WMT service via Crewe that gets me there at 8:05 but that costs £38 or so before fees. (After railcard)

The site used to show such routes by default as the price is around half.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Don't use Trainsplit all that much myself, but does its algorithms invariably always primarily show the quickest journey itineraries, rather than the cheapest available prices, such as the 2 x £11.45 advance singles, which, whilst valid, will result in less flexible, train specific, longer journey times? Can anyone advise?

 

[parkender102]

This is correct.

I am fine with not using Avanti but just need to arrive before 9:17 and I am wondering why I have to exclude avanti for it to show up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2025 ==


Is the website broken at the moment as shouldn’t the cheapest ticket come up by itself?

Going to Flint would be a hassle plus I’m trying to get there before 9:

For future reference arriving just after 10:00 in London an Off Peak Return from Shotton is around £75.00 with Avanti. I've exited at Chester numerous times before now as I had a lift waiting from Chester. Just tell gate staff you are going to WH Smiths and you will be back for the Shotton Train. North Wales Off Peak Tickets on the return leg from London can be used any time of the day after 09:30 and you are not excluded from travelling between 15:01 and 18:59 like the Manchester / Liverpool Tickets are.

 

[NorthWalian]

For future reference arriving just after 10:00 in London an Off Peak Return from Shotton is around £75.00 with Avanti. I've exited at Chester numerous times before now as I had a lift waiting from Chester. Just tell gate staff you are going to WH Smiths and you will be back for the Shotton Train. North Wales Off Peak Tickets on the return leg from London can be used any time of the day after 09:30 and you are not excluded from travelling between 15:01 and 18:59 like the Manchester / Liverpool Tickets are.

I need to arrive for an event starting at 9:45 so that would not help much sadly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==

Don't use Trainsplit all that much myself, but does its algorithms invariably always primarily show the quickest journey itineraries, rather than the cheapest available prices, such as the 2 x £11.45 advance singles, which, whilst valid, will result in less flexible, train specific, longer journey times? Can anyone advise?

It only seems to have started doing so now as it never used to.

All other sites show tickets that are even more expensive

 

[parkender102]

I need to arrive for an event starting at 9:45 so that would not help much sadly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==


It only seems to have started doing so now as it never used to.

All other sites show tickets that are even more expensive

Yes bit of a struggle with the timings for the 18th. My only other suggestion would maybe go the night before. My son used to work a day or 2 a week near Kings Cross travelling from Chester / North Wales. The money saved on travelling the day before was enough for a Dorm Bed in Kabannas on Euston Road (the old YHA). Usually around £20 for the night. Nice relaxed start to the day next morning with no early start! I stayed numerous times when working in London when it was the YHA and always found it superb. Bar and Cafe and Breakfast available plus Common areas to chill out and watch TV.

 

[NorthWalian]

Yes bit of a struggle with the timings for the 18th. My only other suggestion would maybe go the night before. My son used to work a day or 2 a week near Kings Cross travelling from Chester / North Wales. The money saved on travelling the day before was enough for a Dorm Bed in Kabannas on Euston Road (the old YHA). Usually around £20 for the night. Nice relaxed start to the day next morning with no early start! I stayed numerous times when working in London when it was the YHA and always found it superb. Bar and Cafe and Breakfast available plus Common areas to chill out and watch TV.

Can't go the night before either sadly.

 

[Adam Williams]

It only seems to have started doing so now as it never used to.

Can you please share a search link or otherwise confirm which website in particular you're using to do this search?

 

[NorthWalian]

Can you please share a search link or otherwise confirm which website in particular you're using to do this search?

This is using trainsplit

Without Avanti - https://trainsplit.com/results?From...ass=false&flexible=false&selectionMethod=Grid

Normal Search - https://trainsplit.com/results?From...ass=false&flexible=false&selectionMethod=Grid

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2025 ==

Update from Trainsplit Support

We understand your concerns about fare visibility and appreciate your feedback. As mentioned, the system prioritises faster journeys by default, which is why lower fares on slower routes may not always be shown first unless specific filters (such as excluding Avanti) are applied.

Currently, there is no function to list every possible route across all operators in a single view. The best way to explore additional options is by manually adjusting your search—such as specifying via Crewe or Rugby, or filtering out specific operators.

We understand that this may not align with your expectations, but we can only display fares as provided by train operators, and we do not have control over how these are surfaced in journey search results.

If you need further assistance with finding a specific fare, we recommend checking different search parameters through our website. Beyond this, we have provided as much guidance as possible.

Not great imo

 

[Adam Williams]

This is using trainsplit

Thanks, ta. Helps narrow down things a little bit, since the different sites are configured (subtly) differently in some areas.

Update from Trainsplit Support

Okay, I don't think it was a terrible response, but I can also see why you didn't think it was great either.

As mentioned, the system prioritises faster journeys by default, which is why lower fares on slower routes may not always be shown first

This is broadly correct. The journey planner does prioritise itineraries to go and check (before it knows their cost) on a flow, and journey duration is a factor in this process.

we can only display fares as provided by train operators, and we do not have control over how these are surfaced in journey search results

Hmm

---

The engineering team will discuss this one tomorrow in a bit more detail. It did get looked at today, and I had a bit of a theory as to what might be going on, but it didn't behave as I expected when I changed some parameters (and there are a few things I think could be affecting it), so it'll need some further investigation.

Just to set expectations up front, it may be that we're constrained with how much we can do here to sort this out. But if that is the case, we will try and explain why to you in a bit more detail.

 

[NorthWalian]

Thanks, ta. Helps narrow down things a little bit, since the different sites are configured (subtly) differently in some areas.


Okay, I don't think it was a terrible response, but I can also see why you didn't think it was great either.


This is broadly correct. The journey planner does prioritise itineraries to go and check (before it knows their cost) on a flow, and journey duration is a factor in this process.


Hmm

---

The engineering team will discuss this one tomorrow in a bit more detail. It did get looked at today, and I had a bit of a theory as to what might be going on, but it didn't behave as I expected when I changed some parameters (and there are a few things I think could be affecting it), so it'll need some further investigation.

Just to set expectations up front, it may be that we're constrained with how much we can do here to sort this out. But if that is the case, we will try and explain why to you in a bit more detail.

They told me that it was working as intended.

I don’t have long to go so I booked it now at a higher price (£48 with a railcard).

Now I am hoping there’s a way that I can bend the ticket rules on the way back.

The train Leaves Euston 18:17 and arrives in Crewe at 21:00 via a connection in Milton Keynes

Is there any rule to allow me to instead just get the 18:46 and go straight into Crewe arriving at 21:00 on the same train as the ticketed route.

All are with WMT anyway

 

[Watershed]

Now I am hoping there’s a way that I can bend the ticket rules on the way back.

The train Leaves Euston 18:17 and arrives in Crewe at 21:00 via a connection in Milton Keynes

Is there any rule to allow me to instead just get the 18:46 and go straight into Crewe arriving at 21:00 on the same train as the ticketed route.

All are with WMT anyway

If you are on an Advance ticket then you must stick to the trains shown on your ticket, which will include the 18:17 in this case.

The reason why TrainSplit has presumably suggested this (overtaken) itinerary is because it's cheaper than taking the 18:46 from Euston. It may well be that cheaper Advance fares are only made available if travelling north of Milton Keynes on the 18:46, for example.

If you want to travel on the 18:46 from Euston then you could limit the number of changes in the advanced settings, or enter Milton Keynes as a station you don't want to change at (it may then suggest changing at Rugby instead, though).

 

[NorthWalian]

If you are on an Advance ticket then you must stick to the trains shown on your ticket, which will include the 18:17 in this case.

The reason why TrainSplit has presumably suggested this (overtaken) itinerary is because it's cheaper than taking the 18:46 from Euston. It may well be that cheaper Advance fares are only made available if travelling north of Milton Keynes on the 18:46, for example.

If you want to travel on the 18:46 from Euston then you could limit the number of changes in the advanced settings, or enter Milton Keynes as a station you don't want to change at (it may then suggest changing at Rugby instead, though).

It was right to suggest it and I am fine with the extra change. (It was cheaper)

Just wondered anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2025 ==

If you are on an Advance ticket then you must stick to the trains shown on your ticket, which will include the 18:17 in this case.

The reason why TrainSplit has presumably suggested this (overtaken) itinerary is because it's cheaper than taking the 18:46 from Euston. It may well be that cheaper Advance fares are only made available if travelling north of Milton Keynes on the 18:46, for example.

If you want to travel on the 18:46 from Euston then you could limit the number of changes in the advanced settings, or enter Milton Keynes as a station you don't want to change at (it may then suggest changing at Rugby instead, though).

Even worse now, the site seems to have been fixed slightly and now shows the 18:46 at the cheap price I wanted