trouble with references. Please help

[crazy4nath]

i have been taken on as a conductor. I am 6 weeks into my training and today i recieved a letter from my manager asking me to attend a meeting to discuss the fact they have not recieved satisfactory references. My job depends on the outcome of this meeting. I am really worried and dont know what to do. Has anyone had anything similar happen? And what was the outcome? I have no idea what to expect as i cannot find out what was written in the reference but i didnt get along with my manager so i cant imagine it world be too good. Please help!

 

[GB]

I guess the first question is, did your previous employer have reason to give less than satisfactory references?

 

[crazy4nath]

I guess the first question is, did your previous employer have reason to give less than satisfactory references?

iv must admit i wasnt the model employee, i was late a few times and missed a day, had a massive personality clash with the manager who provided the reference. This job was years ago. I was going through a very rough patch but things have changed alot since then

 

[SS4]

I'd use the DPA to get a copy of the reference off your old boss (I think you have the right under the DPA) and see what they said about you.

I would go with partial honesty, you were going through a rough patch and wasn't a model employee

 

[GB]

I agree with the above, explain that it was a long time ago and that you were going through a rough patch. Mention that since you have had the guards job (albeit for 6 weeks) you have uped your game and have not given them cause for concern.

What ever you do do not mention your personality clash with your previous manager as that can seriously back fire.

 

[crazy4nath]

thanks guys. i looked into obtainig a copy of the reference but it takes up to 40 days and my meeting is on thursday so i dont think it would do me much good. It was a bad patch in my life but i havn't been that way for a couple of years now. i've got myself back on track and this career is the starting point of my new life, It means so much to me that the prospect of losing it has got me worried sick.
I think the worst part is that i've got no idea what to expect.
I have moved away from my home and my friends and my mum to a town i barely know and i hardly know anyone in it for this job and if i lose it then i've given it all up for nothing and i'll laos lose my new house and be right back to square one.
I hope it all goes well

 

[185]

Good luck mate. Employers that write bad references achieve nothing.

One train company ended up paying £3000 for such ill-thought out nastiness. They no longer have any franchises.

 

[snail]

I'd use the DPA to get a copy of the reference off your old boss (I think you have the right under the DPA) and see what they said about you.

It is the DPA but you apply to the NEW boss, not the old one.

I want a copy of my employment references. How do I get them?

 

[gordonthemoron]

strictly speaking, referees should do no more than confirm that you worked where you said you did for the periods you claimed, otherwise they fall foul of the DPA.

References should only be sought from the HR department, not from a line manager. Line managers should know better than to provide a personal reference (I have been a manager in the past)

 

[t o m]

strictly speaking, referees should do no more than confirm that you worked where you said you did for the periods you claimed, otherwise they fall foul of the DPA.

References should only be sought from the HR department, not from a line manager. Line managers should know better than to provide a personal reference (I have been a manager in the past)

I was talking to my manager at work and he said that due to the DPA all they can put is how long I worked for and my reason for leaving.

 

[crazy4nath]

I was talking to my manager at work and he said that due to the DPA all they can put is how long I worked for and my reason for leaving.

well i dont suppose wel find out til thursday. I hope it all goes well. im hoping ive been there long enough for them to have made their own mind up about me. Im hoping this is just a bump in the road and not the end of my career

 

[t o m]

Although I think it depends on whether it's a company or personal reference. Best of luck.

 

[crazy4nath]

Although I think it depends on whether it's a company or personal reference. Best of luck.

its a work reference, its from my old manager

 

[Bafferty]

Firstly go in to the meeting with an open mind.

So when you say years ago I take it the job in question was a previous previous job so to speak and your last job reference was ok?

From speaking to my HR department recently on the same matter they said they dont issue references now because of the whole heap of trouble it can land them in. You can get rid of the most troublesome employee ever and all you can write on the reference are the dates employed and reason for leaving as this they say is "fact". By saying they were troublesome or lazy that is "personal opinion" and can land them with a slander charge.

The fact the you have worked for 6 weeks and got there on time and worked hard will go for you. I think it will be a meeting to make you aware that this has been said against you and if you want to comment on it. If the meeting goes well then say you werent aware of these issues and see if they will photocopy the reference for you. Then look into legal advice but dont let your former boss know what you are doing. The first they should know about it is a solicitors letter.

 

[crazy4nath]

Firstly go in to the meeting with an open mind.

So when you say years ago I take it the job in question was a previous previous job so to speak and your last job reference was ok?

From speaking to my HR department recently on the same matter they said they dont issue references now because of the whole heap of trouble it can land them in. You can get rid of the most troublesome employee ever and all you can write on the reference are the dates employed and reason for leaving as this they say is "fact". By saying they were troublesome or lazy that is "personal opinion" and can land them with a slander charge.

The fact the you have worked for 6 weeks and got there on time and worked hard will go for you. I think it will be a meeting to make you aware that this has been said against you and if you want to comment on it. If the meeting goes well then say you werent aware of these issues and see if they will photocopy the reference for you. Then look into legal advice but dont let your former boss know what you are doing. The first they should know about it is a solicitors letter.

the meeting went fine. Im still here lol. Just got my uniform and about 2 start my route learning. Thanks 4 ur help guys

 

[TDK]

the meeting went fine. Im still here lol. Just got my uniform and about 2 start my route learning. Thanks 4 ur help guys

Nice one, it is unusual that anyone will be dismissed from a reference from a previous employer unless it is over sickness, grievance or misconduct that was not reveled when you were interviewed. Glad all is OK for you.

 

[Redviper]

I am sure it is against the law to give a bad reference. You must state that you cannot give a reference for that person. I may be wrong though.

I think that a employer cannot give a bad reference, I think they have to refuse to give a reference for that person

 

[GB]

I'm pretty sure its not illegal to give a bad reference. The reference has to be fair and accurate though as there is the possibility of litigation against the company or person that issued the reference if it is done incorrectly. Ie saying someone is bad when they are good or saying someone is good when in fact they are useless.

It should also be noted that employers are under no legal obligation to provide a reference unless it is contractual to do so.

To the OP (if your still about): How did it go?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It is not illegal to give a bad reference. As long as what they write is truthful, then you can do nothing about it. There is a risk of litigation though, so most companies will supply a blank reference instead of a bad one.

 

[rail-britain]

There is a risk of litigation though, so most companies will supply a blank reference instead of a bad one

Yes, and for such an employee we respond "We are not prepared to provide a reference to this person"
That is usually enough of a big hint to the new employer
Sometimes they phone us and we may discuss the matter, but never confirm it in writing

For a supportive reference we simply advise the post held, dates of employment, and whether we would employ this person again (sometimes we put no, but we do not provide any details and this is typically due to a reason such as poor timekeeping, etc which was discussed with the employee and entered on their employment record)

 

[TDK]

I think that a employer cannot give a bad reference, I think they have to refuse to give a reference for that person

It depends on what a bad reference is - I had to tell a trainee driver that he was to be "let go" as the terminology is due to a reference, this was due to LOD and sickness that he did not come forward with at interview, if he had he would have been accepted!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I think that a employer cannot give a bad reference, I think they have to refuse to give a reference for that person

There are ways by which a former employer can send a 'sign' to a prospective employer, usually by making some very positive remarks about a barely-relevant aspect of the person's employment.
e.g. if they'd been in a public-facing role where punctuality was crucial, a negative reference may state that they appeared to get on well with their colleagues. If they'd been responsible for hazardous operations, a negative reference may state that they had a smart appearance.

It would be unwise to directly hint at wrongdoing, however. If they'd been responsible for cash handling and suspected of theft, to say that they appeared to enjoy the cash handling element of their work very much could be construed as a direct reference to an unsubstantiated slur.

Usually, the answer to the question "Would you consider employing this person in the future" is quite enough to give out a warning.
But one factor which has to be carefully interpreted is whether the reference was written before or after the previous employment had reached the point where notice had been given (by either party). If the earlier employer wanted rid of the employee and notice had not been given (perhaps there were inadequate grounds for dismissal), then the employer may be very eager for someone else to make an offer of employment, in which case the reference may be misleadingly enthusiastic!

 

[smoky_bacon]

crazy4nath - good to hear all went fine for you. However I am a bit curious what was this chat about and what did your employer ask you?

Regarding bad references I think it is possible to get them. I even saw a sample of bad reference letter on one of the websites with CV's, cover letters, notices samples etc. This might have been an American website so they might do it differently there, you never know.

Common sense tells me that an employer cannot give their personal opinion as reference but they should be entitled to inform new employer if an employee had had absences without previous notice or was off sick extremely often, etc. of course only if it was true.
On some applications in the past I had questions about how many days in last 1 or 2 years I was off sick or absent without notice. As long as it's not too much than reasonable and you write the truth you should be OK.