Risk of a second prosecution letter

[kiuani]

I am writing to ask if it is possible to ask for a fine instead after receiving a witness statement.
I have received a letter for prosecution before but thankfully I got the letter asking to pay a fine straight away without needing to ask for an out of court settlement, however today I boarded a train in a rush as the doors were to close and bought my ticket while in the train, when I arrived at the next station the barrier scanners were blocked and a ticket inspector was scanning tickets to let people through, I went up to the man and let him scan it and was told to stay back.

He later asked for my details and because this wasn’t my first time I knew what it entailed, he listened to me and got my details for a letter to be sent to my home instead of a fine and said I can appeal to that letter, worried I asked him if this was going to be a prosecution letter and he said no and that I would just have to reply to that letter explaining why the ticket was bought late.

My issue is that I am guessing the letter is in-fact going to be a prosecution letter and because I have been sent the settlement pay letter for the previous case not long before this new letter to come I fear I will be taken to court, I have bought the right tickets ever since that incident and also got a railcard and have experienced situations like this were I bought the ticket slightly late due to almost missing the train but was never asked to write my details down for a fine so was completely blindsided by this today.

I cannot have going to court as I am still in college and I know having a record will majorly ruin my future, so I wonder if it is possible to request for the usual fine to the inspector in order to avoid the extreme anxiety I went through waiting for the first letter and if they’ll accept and cancel the letter or if what they said about the letter asking what happened not being a prosecution one is true, could I get answers if this letter is a real possibility

 

[mikeg]

I don't get what you're asking here. You either have an out of court settlement or get a fine in court. If you're referring to a penalty fare they have no obligation to give these out and they have to be issued 'there and then'. So an out of court settlement or a fine in court is what you'll get. Given that this is the second time, the former is also less likely. It's the train company's choice, not yours, whether they prosecute or offer to settle.

However you do in future really need to make sure you have a valid ticket before you board the train, it's not good that you didn't learn your lesson the first time. If you do not have time to purchase a ticket before you get on the train, you need to wait until the next one, it's as simple as that.

 

[Titfield]

Train Operating Companies do not take people to court immediately.

They write to you, ask you for your version of events and then make a decision whether to offer an out of court settlement OR take you to court.

They normally decide to proceed to court if (1) the person does not engage with them (2) has been offered an out of court settlement before (ie they have NOT learned their lesson) (3) has fare evaded on a long term large scale.

When the letter arrives please upload here with the personal details and references numbers obscured. Tailored advice can then be given.

In the meantime if you search this forum and look for advice given by @Hadders you will see the types of response people have been advised to give.

You have to wait until the letter arrives before you can send your response in.

 

[John R]

Which station did you board and on what train (and what date). And similarly what station did you alight at, and at what time? Finally, it would help to know what time the ticket purchase transaction went through.

 

[kiuani]

it's not good that you didn't learn your lesson the first time

The first time I got a letter was due to having an invalid ticket for my journey which I was very disappointed in myself for and subsequently corrected myself for by adhering to purchasing the right tickets not for the same issue that occurred today.

Having experienced buying a few tickets late going to work before and with no issues as I was able to provide my tickets to inspectors, I wasn’t aware that just stepping in the train having not purchased the ticket yet would be a problem even if I purchased the ticket like a minute after boarding

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

Which station did you board and on what train (and what date). And similarly what station did you alight at, and at what time? Finally, it would help to know what time the ticket purchase transaction went through.

I boarded Welwyn north today and alighted at Welwyn Garden City, the train departed at 08:52 and arrived at 08:54 I bought the ticket for the next train (9:14) slightly late at around 8:53

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

The first time I got a letter was due to having an invalid ticket for my journey which I was very disappointed in myself for and subsequently corrected myself for by adhering to purchasing the right tickets not for the same issue that occurred today.

Having experienced buying a few tickets late going to work before and with no issues as I was able to provide my tickets to inspectors, I wasn’t aware that just stepping in the train having not purchased the ticket yet would be a problem even if I purchased the ticket like a minute after boarding

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==


I boarded Welwyn north today and alighted at Welwyn Garden City, the train departed at 08:52 and arrived at 08:54 I bought the ticket for the next train (9:14) slightly late at around 8:54-5 I think

I’d like to note that this ticket was not discounted except by my railcard it was an anytime ticket not off-peak

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

If you're referring to a penalty fare they have no obligation to give these out and they have to be issued 'there and then'.

This would have happened before I explained why I purchased the ticket late

 

[furlong]

Which railcard? How old are you?

 

[kiuani]

If you do not have time to purchase a ticket before you get on the train, you need to wait until the next one, it's as simple as that.

Again thank you for your reply, I am well aware now of this and I know it’s not an excuse whatsoever but I urgently needed to be in college for a test and my attendance, again I know it’s not a valid excuse but this was my train of thought at the time

 

[kiuani]

Which railcard? How old are you?

I am 18, 16-25 railcard, I know the discount doesn’t apply before 10 for me but I had to mention I didn’t get the ticket late for a discount

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

I am 18, 16-25 railcard, I know the discount doesn’t apply before 10 for me but I had to mention I didn’t get the ticket late for a discount

So technically it wasn’t really discounted by my railcard I apologise for that mistake

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

In the meantime if you search this forum and look for advice given by @Hadders you will see the types of response people have been advised to give.

I would appreciate any advice on how to handle this matter @Hadders as you have provided much of this in this forum

 

[John R]

I boarded Welwyn north today and alighted at Welwyn Garden City, the train departed at 08:52 and arrived at 08:54 I bought the ticket for the next train (9:14) slightly late at around 8:53

Thanks. So given you boarded at Welwyn North at least the journey time was so quick that there’s no evidence that this was a premeditated instance of only buying when an inspection was about to happen.

And I presume your address makes it obvious that you did board at Welwyn, rather than being a short fare to get through the gate line at WGC?

 

[furlong]

A local 2-minute journey, just over 1.5 miles.

What's your connection with Hitchin, the location you've given on the forum?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

And how much longer does the bus take? Which route(s)? What time was your bus scheduled to reach Welwyn North? Does the bus stop at the station or else how many minutes walk is it from the bus stop to the station?

Do you have the bus tickets? Or proof of payments to the bus company?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

Luckily for you, the train company involved here is usually willing to settle out-of-court for a payment of all the money owed, even when it's not the first time.
But if they don't believe what you tell them, they're more likely to want to put the evidence in front of a court and let it decide if you should be punished.

So wait for the letter, then own up in the privacy of your reply to that letter and apologise and offer to pay back anything they are owed. Meanwhile don't even think about stepping onto a train again unless you've already bought the correct ticket for your complete journey.

 

[kiuani]

And I presume your address makes it obvious that you did board at Welwyn, rather than being a short fare to get through the gate line at WGC?

I live in Hitchin and after receiving the prosecution slip which I gained from not always being able to afford a ticket I began using buses more as the day tickets are more affordable to me I only rarely get off the bus stop at Welwyn north (when it’s clear traffic will make me late) to get a train to Welwyn Garden City and my tickets show I won’t have purchased any other ticket except a single would that be a problem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

A local 2-minute journey, just over 1.5 miles.

What's your connection with Hitchin, the location you've given on the forum?

I live there

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

I would like to adjust my claim that I purchased the ticket at 08:53 it was at 08:54 when the train arrived I have checked on my app

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

I live in Hitchin and after receiving the prosecution slip which I gained from not always being able to afford a ticket I began using buses more as the day tickets are more affordable to me I only rarely get off the bus stop at Welwyn north when it’s clear traffic will make me late to get a train to Welwyn Garden City and my tickets show I won’t have purchased any other ticket except a single would that be a problem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==


I live there

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

I would like to adjust my claim that I purchased the ticket at 08:53 it was at 08:54 when the train arrived I have checked on my app, I apologise for that

 

[kiuani]

A local 2-minute journey, just over 1.5 miles.

What's your connection with Hitchin, the location you've given on the forum?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

And how much longer does the bus take? Which route(s)? What time was your bus scheduled to reach Welwyn North? Does the bus stop at the station or else how many minutes walk is it from the bus stop to the station?

Do you have the bus tickets? Or proof of payments to the bus company?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Mar 2025 ==

Luckily for you, the train company involved here is usually willing to settle out-of-court for a payment of all the money owed, even when it's not the first time.
But if they don't believe what you tell them, they're more likely to want to put the evidence in front of a court and let it decide if you should be punished.

So wait for the letter, then own up in the privacy of your reply to that letter and apologise and offer to pay back anything they are owed. Meanwhile don't even think about stepping onto a train again unless you've already bought the correct ticket for your complete journey.

Thank you very much for this reply you have been very helpful I’ll keep everything you said in mind for when the letter comes, one last question how long would this letter asking of my side take to arrive? Is it anywhere between 6 months too?

 

[Titfield]

It can take up to 6 months as that is the time limit for court proceedings to be initiated but typically we see 2 to 6 weeks as the more usual time frame.