False penalty fair

[vertuas]

Hi All,
I decided to join and post here after reading a few other posts

On the 26th February I received a letter from Northern reminding me about a Penalty Fair that they say that I incurred on one of their trains on the 28th January this year

The issue here is that I have no been on a trin for at least 10 years! Even then this was no a norther service.

Northern are trying to fraudulently obtain £105 from me.

I tried to contact Northern about this, through there website chat and through their email. The chat agent was not about to help but did say that the penalty was sent out in error.

From the email I got a response advising be to open an appeal with Penalty Services LTD

I have done this and have heard nothing from penalty services ltd.

A little research show that Penalty Services Ltd is owned by a couple of Americans and a Canadian.

1st Question : is this some kind of elaborate scam design to extort money from me.

2nd question: were so these people obtain personal detail from?

3rd question: has anyone else similar issues?

Many Thanks

 

[jfollows]

Most likely that a third party has given your details to Northern.

If so, you should engage with them, but understand that they have to prove that it was you, not the other way around. However they’re accustomed to this sort of thing.

This kind of thing is frequently reported here.

They’re not trying to fraudulently obtain anything from you, and it’s a “fare” rather than a “fair”.

 

[Gloster]

This is probably a case of someone giving your details when stopped: it is not a case of dishonesty by Northern. Please post the letter you have had in this thread. Please obscure your name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers, so that the experts know exactly what needs to be dealt with.

 

[vertuas]

I'm glad to see that is common and it isn't just me, my further concern is who is using my name and correct address.
I have asked both Northern and Penalty Serviced LTD for a copy of the identification document that they recorded at the time. But as I say, neither have responded.

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling.

 

[AlterEgo]

They don’t need to take ID. The UK is a country where it is not mandatory to carry ID. Someone just gave your name and address.

 

[Titfield]

I'm glad to see that is common and it isn't just me, my further concern is who is using my name and correct address.
I have asked both Northern and Penalty Serviced LTD for a copy of the identification document that they recorded at the time. But as I say, neither have responded.

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling.

They may not have seen an identity document. It is more likely to be someone who knows you reasonably well than a complete stranger who has randomly obtained your name and address.

 

[Gloster]

It is probably just a case of someone getting themselves out of trouble, but it is best to keep an eye on other financial and ID-related matters in case there is a wider problem.

You still need to deal with deal with the Penalty Fare, as the longer you leave it, the more difficult it can be to unravel the problem.

 

[Haywain]

It is more likely to be someone who knows you reasonably well than a complete stranger who has randomly obtained your name and address.

It could be anyone who can find a name and address. Information which is easy to obtain and use in circumstances such as this. I don't think there is a strong likelihood of it being someone known to the OP.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Although you are under no obligation to prove the person who gave your details wasn’t you, if for example the Penalty Fare was issued on a train to Manchester at 15:23 and you have a receipt for a transaction in, say, Doncaster around 30mins either side of that time, you could argue it as proof that it wasn’t you who they issued it to!

 

[Titfield]

It could be anyone who can find a name and address. Information which is easy to obtain and use in circumstances such as this. I don't think there is a strong likelihood of it being someone known to the OP.

But that would presuppose that someone obtains and memorises a name and address including post code to "reel off" if challenged when short faring or committing some other offence.

 

[Pushpit]

But that would presuppose that someone obtains and memorises a name and address including post code to "reel off" if challenged when short faring or committing some other offence.

My speculation is that such a person could be an industrial shortfarer and they have accumulated a suitable list of names, addresses and perhaps pseudo ID to boot.

 

[AlterEgo]

Very unserious country where you can dispose of minor offences entirely by giving a name and address which isn’t yours. Completely emblematic of what a stupid country we are.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

But that would presuppose that someone obtains and memorises a name and address including post code to "reel off" if challenged when short faring or committing some other offence.

Or a near enough fit such that if the railway runs what they were given through Experian or similar, it finds a fairly close match.

To essentially repeat what has already been said to the OP
- If the railway wants to take this further, it's for them to prove that the OP is the person they want rather than for the OP to prove that they're not.
- none the less, it can be worthwhile co-operating to show that it's not you. That can make resolving this much quicker and less stressful.
- one route is to show you were somewhere else at the time of the incident. Bank statements, till receipts or evidence from someone who was with you at the time are good for this.
- another approach is to show some sort of photo id (typically a picture of your passport or driving licence) which can show that you don't look like the person they're looking for.
- most likely, someone who knows you a little (a house/work/class mate perhaps) has used your details on a casual basis to make this matter go away for them. You don't need to find who is to blame so don't worry about this. There's an outside chance that you have been the victim of identity theft: if you have recently lost significant documents (maybe someone stole your purse or wallet) then you might want to keep an eye out through the various credit reference agencies for signs of your identity being misused.

 

[Haywain]

But that would presuppose that someone obtains and memorises a name and address including post code to "reel off" if challenged when short faring or committing some other offence.

Which really isn't that difficult - you only need to remember one set of details, and anyone involved in deliveries, for example, has ready access to everything they need.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi All,
I decided to join and post here after reading a few other posts

On the 26th February I received a letter from Northern reminding me about a Penalty Fair that they say that I incurred on one of their trains on the 28th January this year

The issue here is that I have no been on a trin for at least 10 years! Even then this was no a norther service.

Northern are trying to fraudulently obtain £105 from me.

I tried to contact Northern about this, through there website chat and through their email. The chat agent was not about to help but did say that the penalty was sent out in error.

From the email I got a response advising be to open an appeal with Penalty Services LTD

I have done this and have heard nothing from penalty services ltd.

A little research show that Penalty Services Ltd is owned by a couple of Americans and a Canadian.

1st Question : is this some kind of elaborate scam design to extort money from me.

2nd question: were so these people obtain personal detail from?

3rd question: has anyone else similar issues?

Many Thanks

I would not waste your time with their website chat unfortunately you are not dealing with customer services section over this. You need to send a formal written reply to whoever has written to you stating that this was not you. If you can supply anything that supports it wasn’t you that is probably helpful and in your interest to do.

Someone is out there using your details. Do all the usual on line security measures, check your electoral registration record is up to date and removed from your old addresses etc.

 

[Egg Centric]

Very unserious country where you can dispose of minor offences entirely by giving a name and address which isn’t yours. Completely emblematic of what a stupid country we are.

There are other more obvious signs

 

[The exile]

Very unserious country where you can dispose of minor offences entirely by giving a name and address which isn’t yours. Completely emblematic of what a stupid country we are.

Only ever been about 15 years when this wasn’t the case.

 

[jfollows]

But that would presuppose that someone obtains and memorises a name and address including post code to "reel off" if challenged when short faring or committing some other offence.

I had a former tenant who did - I suspect - do exactly this after he’d moved out. Fortunately I got the letter of accusation before it was too late and put a stop to it. By a formal written reply, as advised above for this case.