CrossCountry XC Class 170 refurbishment

[duffield]

I don't understand why the declassified seats are turquoise and not uniform with the rest of the seating...it just makes it look messy to me.

Were they not able to order any more burgundy cloth when the plans were changed to remove First Class accommodation?

Yes, and given that seat colours are typically used to distinguish 1st from Standard, and with these trains having had 1st in the past, it might well put quite a few people off sitting on them.

 

[Russel]

I don't understand why the declassified seats are turquoise and not uniform with the rest of the seating...it just makes it look messy to me.

Were they not able to order any more burgundy cloth when the plans were changed to remove First Class accommodation?

I believe when the decision was made to remove First Class, it was too late to change the spec, though I believe only the first 7 units will receive the turquoise seating.

 

[liamf656]

Comments on Facebook suggest that 170101 has some issues:
- A taped up changing table
- Overhead panel in one coach that won't fully close
- Some door button panels that won't close
- The PIS in one coach not working

Not a good look for a refurbed unit that's only been back in service a few days

I've also heard various complaints about the position of the bike space.

 

[Trainman40083]

I don't understand why the declassified seats are turquoise and not uniform with the rest of the seating...it just makes it look messy to me.

Were they not able to order any more burgundy cloth when the plans were changed to remove First Class accommodation?

I guess the specification had been agreed, and the cloth ordered/supplied before they decided to do away with first class.

 

[E B]

That’s pretty typical in all honesty, I’ll attach some of the concept images below…

I’d imagine the blue seats are just going to be the burgundy now that first has gone.
View attachment 175256View attachment 175257

No. Those seats are blue, not burgundy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2025 ==

Does anyone know whether or not automated announcements have been installed as part of the refurbishment? If so which voice is used and is it still the BTROS (Whiteleys) system? I am hoping that they have done these as part of the refurbishment. These are one of the last trains left with no automated announcements system.

Still no automated announcements

 

[Russel]

Comments on Facebook suggest that 170101 has some issues:
- A taped up changing table
- Overhead panel in one coach that won't fully close
- Some door button panels that won't close
- The PIS in one coach not working

Not a good look for a refurbed unit that's only been back in service a few days

I've also heard various complaints about the position of the bike space.

It's the first unit to be complete, there are going to be snags that don't become apparent until it's used in service... I'd be more surprised it there wasn't any!

The issue is weather they are rectified or not.

My child is 8 now, but I remember back in the days of nappy changing, changing tables were always hit and miss, across most fleets, so it's probably nothing to do with the refurb.

 

[MCR247]

Comments on Facebook suggest that 170101 has some issues:
- A taped up changing table
- Overhead panel in one coach that won't fully close
- Some door button panels that won't close
- The PIS in one coach not working

Not a good look for a refurbed unit that's only been back in service a few days

I've also heard various complaints about the position of the bike space.

I did think about the bike space when I heard it was being moved. The former shared space (ignoring the problems of it being shared) was pretty easy to manoeuvre bikes into as there is no ‘doorway’ to the saloon area like there is at the end towards the cab.

 

[AJDesiro]

No. Those seats are blue, not burgundy.

I know, that post was merely speculative. What I’ve seen on Facebook is that the first 7 will have the first section, and then once the rest have been refurbished, they will be converted to standard.

 

[satisnek]

I finally eyeballed it yesterday, it was on 1M99 1245 Cardiff-Nottingham. The livery is a bit garish for my taste but these units are desperately in need of a refurb so the interior can only be an improvement. I look forward to seeing it for myself.

The picture is a still from a completely pointless phone video, so not great.

 

[tfw756rider]

I finally eyeballed it yesterday, it was on 1M99 1245 Cardiff-Nottingham. The livery is a bit garish for my taste but these units are desperately in need of a refurb so the interior can only be an improvement. I look forward to seeing it for myself.

The picture is a still from a completely pointless phone video, so not great.

View attachment 175978

Where was this taken?

 

[MCR247]

Where was this taken?

The train is pulling into (or about to pass through) Willington station, between Burton-on-Trent and Derby

 

[tfw756rider]

The train is pulling into (or about to pass through) Willington station, between Burton-on-Trent and Derby

Ah yes, that sometimes-served, sometimes-passed station. Thanks

 

[MCR247]

Ah yes, that sometimes-served, sometimes-passed station. Thanks

Yes, the others on the Birmingham - Derby section being Wilnecote (which gets a slightly more frequent service) and the little served Water Orton

 

[The_Train]

Comments on Facebook suggest that 170101 has some issues:
- A taped up changing table
- Overhead panel in one coach that won't fully close
- Some door button panels that won't close
- The PIS in one coach not working

Not a good look for a refurbed unit that's only been back in service a few days

I've also heard various complaints about the position of the bike space.

This is hardly a new thing. There are Pendolino's roaming the network with lots of issues like this after their mid-life refurb!

Back to the 170s though, have I read right that the seats are the same as those used in the 458 conversion project?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back to the 170s though, have I read right that the seats are the same as those used in the 458 conversion project?

Yes, the FISA LEAN, also used on the Greater Anglia and TfW FLIRTs and the 196s.

It's not an uncomfortable seat, but its thick-backed frame does mean poor legroom. Though because the 170s had very thick backed seats before it might still give a small improvement.

 

[The_Train]

Yes, the FISA LEAN, also used on the Greater Anglia and TfW FLIRTs and the 196s.

It's not an uncomfortable seat, but its thick-backed frame does mean poor legroom. Though because the 170s had very thick backed seats before it might still give a small improvement.

I didn't realise that seat type was across so many units but I was actually impressed (as far as new seats go) with them on the 458s

 

[Bletchleyite]

I didn't realise that seat type was across so many units but I was actually impressed (as far as new seats go) with them on the 458s

They are also being used on the new EMR units (810s? I forget) and are proposed in the mockups for the HS2 units.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Yes, the FISA LEAN, also used on the Greater Anglia and TfW FLIRTs and the 196s.

It's not an uncomfortable seat, but its thick-backed frame does mean poor legroom. Though because the 170s had very thick backed seats before it might still give a small improvement.

I had no issues with the seats or the legroom.

 

[satisnek]

Ah yes, that sometimes-served, sometimes-passed station. Thanks

Yes, it was stopping there, it would have been a blur otherwise (but not as blurry as the voyagers)

 

[QSK19]

They are also being used on the new EMR units (810s? I forget) and are proposed in the mockups for the HS2 units.

Correct, albeit the 810’s LEAN is a modified (I hope enhanced!) version.

 

[WesternLancer]

It's good to see the pictures of this. I had no issue with the old livery - it was the increasingly tatty standard of the interior that frustrated me - after all when I buy a ticket what I'm buying is somewhere pleasant to be for the duration of the trip, so it's good to see this work finally underway.

I do think its a retrograde step removing 1st class on these routes however. Reduces passenger choice and presumably is a nuisance on parts of the route like Derby to Birmingham where other parts of the fleet have 1st class provision. rather too much of the chipping away of quality provision that we have seen across various pats of the network, and certainly on XC.

Having recently read about this I used one of the declassified 1st class compartments on an xc 170 yesterday. It's been fully debranded and the doors to the compartment switched out of use and permanently open.

Are they still offering a trolley service on certain XC operated 170 services?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct, albeit the 810’s LEAN is a modified (I hope enhanced!) version.

It's meant to have a better cushion, though TBH I don't find the cushion on these bad, the thing I'm not a fan of is the very thick back that means legroom is unnecessarily poor. Though as 170s' previous seats (both types) had quite thick backs too at least it's not a downgrade in this case.

 

[tfw756rider]

Having recently read about this I used one of the declassified 1st class compartments on an xc 170 yesterday. It's been fully debranded and the doors to the compartment switched out of use and permanently open.

Are they still offering a trolley service on certain XC operated 170 services?

I was on one just over a week ago and there were 5 or 6 people (including me, so I could charge my phone) sat in the declassified compartment, but the doors were closed for some reason. None of us seemed to mind though.

Yes.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was on one just over a week ago and there were 5 or 6 people (including me, so I could charge my phone) sat in the declassified compartment, but the doors were closed for some reason. None of us seemed to mind though.

Yes.

Thanks - maybe the doors on the one I was on were just broken and it's varied. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

when I buy a ticket what I'm buying is somewhere pleasant to be for the duration of the trip

I hate to be THAT annoying person, but this isn't technically correct. When you buy a ticket you are buying (safe) transportation from A to B, and anything else you get is a bonus, but I guess it's this view by the DfT and TOCs in the past that have really limited comfort on-board certain trains!

 

[WesternLancer]

I hate to be THAT annoying person, but this isn't technically correct. When you buy a ticket you are buying (safe) transportation from A to B, and anything else you get is a bonus, but I guess it's this view by the DfT and TOCs in the past that have really limited comfort on-board certain trains!

Well given I doubt that is specified really when you buy a ticket it’s your own opinion on what you are paying for that matters. Just like pretty much anything else you choose to buy. People make their own assessment of value in each and every transaction and that’s part of my assessment.

 

[tram21]

the doors to the compartment switched out of use and permanently open.

Along with the EMR 170s with declassified first class, the doors are rarely broken, but can be forced to remain open if you use a T-key on the doors.

I think they're supposed to all remain open, but if someone uses a T-key to close them then they just stay on the automatic setting.

 

[duffield]

It's good to see the pictures of this. I had no issue with the old livery - it was the increasingly tatty standard of the interior that frustrated me - after all when I buy a ticket what I'm buying is somewhere pleasant to be for the duration of the trip, so it's good to see this work finally underway.

I do think its a retrograde step removing 1st class on these routes however. Reduces passenger choice and presumably is a nuisance on parts of the route like Derby to Birmingham where other parts of the fleet have 1st class provision. rather too much of the chipping away of quality provision that we have seen across various pats of the network, and certainly on XC.

Having recently read about this I used one of the declassified 1st class compartments on an xc 170 yesterday. It's been fully debranded and the doors to the compartment switched out of use and permanently open.

Are they still offering a trolley service on certain XC operated 170 services?

There was a trolley service on the 1107 Nottingham to Cardiff on Monday.

 

[Rick1984]

Surely the plug socket would be better rotated 180°

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

View attachment 176773

Surely the plug socket would be better rotated 180°

I disagree, this way phone chargers won’t be sharply twisted just beneath the plug when attempting to use the phone while it’s charging. The more this is done the more likely the charging lead is to stop working.

The usual position (how these would be if rotated as you suggest) is better for laptops on tables, and these will now be twisted slightly, but laptop charging leads tend to be a lot thicker and more robust than flimsy phone leads, so I consider this move an improvement.