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London to Istanbul mid March

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Ian99

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I'm very familiar with London to Greece - using a senior Interrail pass has worked well for me

But this March, I need to get to Antalya....

I've obviously looked at the Seat61 options but thought it would be worthwhile for me to get input here too.

I'm travelling on my own and happy to take 7 to 9 days to get there for Friday 14th.

Happy to take a sleeper train but also happy to stay overnight in budget hotels.

Probably keener to press on to Türkiye than spend too many days looking around different cities.

I have a 28 day senior railcard to use (although could use it another time this year if it's better not to use it for this trip).

Any thoughts gratefully received!
 
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MarcVD

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You must choose where you want to cross the Danube River between Romania and Bulgaria. The classic way is via Bucharest and Giurgiu/Ruse (the friendship bridge) but you can also go via Craiova and the new Calafat/Vidin bridge. The classical route is faster but the Vidin - Sofia line is incredibly scenic.
 

nwales58

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My view, having run around Romania and Bulgaria last year, is that the best route really comes down to personal preferences about comfort and timings, which are different when you are older.

Seat61 gives good low-risk advice, though that means he now advises a night in Bucharest eastbound.

On the two bridges, although eastbound times are broadly similar it depends on connection risk and where you feel like staying a night. Scenery: (Ruse)Gorna Oriahovitsa-Stara Zagora is spectacular, climbs to 1000m with very little tunnel including a 360 degree tour of a hill top at 900m. (Vidin) through Dimovo then Mezdra-Sofia is beautiful too along an alpine-feel valley.

Working back from those:
Via Ruse the only train is 1011 (now, used to be later) from Bucharest so your choice of Budapest-Bucharest depends on whether you want to spend a night at Bucharest and/or sleeper from Budapest. IC79 arrive Bucharest 0936 so you could go on the same day but because reliability is awful (crap track speed restrictions and massive congestion) seat61 advises against it, but it calls at Videle at 0832 and the Ruse train leaves there at 1127 so that should work, but Videle station may not be where you want to spend a couple of hours although there is a small supermarket.

Via Vidin the only train is 0655 from Craiova. IC79 from Budapest stops at Craiova 0530 so that connects too. If not, stay on it to Videle or Bucharest, but you would need a reservation that far (so on Interrail reserve to Bucharest, if paying rebook as you go). Vidin-Sofia arrives 1730-ish (shuttle or tram from Sofia Sever), onwards to Turkey departs 1845 but I would not risk it.

So it comes down to how long you can endure on trains without a hotel, where you feel like lingering between trains, whether changing at 0530 at the equivalent of (much quieter) Crewe is OK or not, how much you like changing plans as you go or want to pre-plan. Oh, and the fun of getting reservations for Interrail (I was paying rather than using Interrail days)

For the Budapest-Bucharest routes there are recent threads on this forum. Both ways have pluses. The first 5h from Budapest is uninteresting. Or split it into daytime travel, I would stop at any of Arad, Timisoara, Drobeta-Turnu Severin, Alba Iulia, Sibiu, Sighisoara or Brasov for a night. Timisoara, Sibiu or Brasov probably the most interesting, personally Bucharest was underwhelming. Further on I'd choose Veliko Trnovo or Plovdiv though Sofia has hotels near the station and is fine.

Westbound: via Vidin lands you with hours in Craiova or overnight whichever way you carry on, so Bucharest probably best.

Final PS, because I haven't seen info on it elsewhere, for Arad-Bucharest overnight there is also Astra Transcarpatic (train builder running train services) whose sleepers look more recent than CFR's (some of which they built/rebuilt) and you can book luxe en-suite which is pot luck on CFR but were full on the nights I tried to book, but do not accept Interrail. Anyone used them?
 
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dutchflyer

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As GR is since many years effectively cut off from through trains on rails I assume you mean the classic route via IT+ferry to there-if so, you will enter a quite different railwayworld there.
ANTalya has a classic made lookalike tram and new light rail, but is NOT connected to TCDD trains. TR has a splendid long-dist bus (coach for Brits) system by various companies-in low season just go to the OtoGar (=busstation for those) and find the next one and buy ticket. Will also be (much) faster and if open for that, many direct from IST. But TR also has a quite good internal low-cost air network, which you probably want to avoid. ALL longer dist trains (trenlerinde) in TR must be REServed and with a pass/IR this can effectively only be done in a staffed station. Away from the newer HS lines from IST to Ankara and on; frequency is very low-think of 1/day for most.
I saw very recent a note in the german forum on changed timings for the SOF-IST overnite expr-plus connection to Buch.- I think nwales above here mentions these.
Also note: since 1/1 also ROm and BG are now in the Schengen zone, so from the channel to the BG-TR border there are none or only cursory ID checks.
HU - RO - BG however still have their own currency and no € , but in general its easy to pay by card also for small usual traveller expense there.
 

nwales58

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Being elderly, if trying to get there, I'd do London-Munich or Linz on day 1, Munich-Arad, Arad-Bucharest, Bucharest-Istanbul arriving morning of day 5, or shorter days.
 

rvdborgt

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So it comes down to how long you can endure on trains without a hotel, where you feel like lingering between trains, whether changing at 0530 at the equivalent of (much quieter) Crewe is OK or not, how much you like changing plans as you go or want to pre-plan.
And that's 0430 Budapest time...
 

nwales58

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And that's 0430 Budapest time...
... but probably late.

A Flix minibus can get you half a day ahead of the train on this stretch. Timisoara 1245 Drobeta 1705 Vidin 1955 (continues to Sofia in the dark). Costs almost nothing.
 

Ian99

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Thanks everybody for your input.

I've put my first attempt below but will look to incorporate some of the thoughts above too....

1739208453420.png

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Regarding tickets, do I understand from above that Interrail reservations get harder to arrange the further one gets into the journey? Perhaps I should just use Interrail for the first 2 days?

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Swapping Budapest for Arad in Romania seems to work timings wise. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of doing that? As suggested by nwales58.
 
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rvdborgt

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Turkish tickets are so cheap, it's not worth using a pass for unless you already have a continuous pass. If you're looking at a flexipass, then indeed only the first 2 days, until Bucharest, are worth using it for.
 

Gloster

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If you want to consider the possible variations when planning, try the European Rail Timetable. Web: .europeanrailtimetable.eu
 

YorkshireBear

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Thanks everybody for your input.

I've put my first attempt below but will look to incorporate some of the thoughts above too....

View attachment 174366

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Regarding tickets, do I understand from above that Interrail reservations get harder to arrange the further one gets into the journey? Perhaps I should just use Interrail for the first 2 days?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Swapping Budapest for Arad in Romania seems to work timings wise. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of doing that? As suggested by nwales58.
Unless I've got it wrong in your table you've double counted the 12th. Leaving Sofia in the evening of the 12th ans your travel to Konya input in the same day.
 

Train jaune

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I did Berlin to Sofia last year. Took the sleeper from Budapest to Bucharest, that was fine and a bit of an adventure. Had a 4 berth to ourselves as it was quiet. Got woken in the middle of the night for passports but think schengen applies now. Day train, Ruse to Sofia, was really scenic as you got nearer to Sofia
 

Ian99

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Unless I've got it wrong in your table you've double counted the 12th. Leaving Sofia in the evening of the 12th ans your travel to Konya input in the same day.

Yes - good point. I put it on the wrong line I think.

I also had to amend as it's too early in the season to go through Sofia I think?

The following is what I now have:

1740406180008.png


Does anyone have any thoughts on how would it work to go via a stop at Arad in Romania as nwales58 kindly suggested?

Thanks for all your inputs so far!

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PS. Another question that I had was whether there were any complications, Interrail pass wise, when crossing into Austria from Germany?
 
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nwales58

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Does anyone have any thoughts on how would it work to go via a stop at Arad in Romania as nwales58 kindly suggested?

Using the Astra Transcarpatic sleeper or another night stop? Still lots of choices.

ATC leaves Arad 1948 arraving Bucurest 0816 plus delays. Linz 0817-Arad 1829 could work, the border padding times probably mean you get that far on time. If you don't want 24 hours in Bucurest that should catch the 1011 onwards, a day earlier than your plan, because if late you can change at Videle.

Or night in Arad or Timisoara instead of on the train. 'Fast' train is 0659 from Arad to Bucharest 1728 with a change at Teius (CFR intend that to work) - those were the cleanest CFR coaches I saw in a week. From Timisiaora it's a through train at 0606 Bucharest 1757. So a day seeing scenery rather than in Bucharest.

Or Flix minibus leaves Timisoara 1245 goes via the Daunbe gorge for about 30 mins and gets to Sofia at midnight giving you a day in Sofia if you want. Or bail out at Vidin 4 hours earlier for a night by the Danube and carry on by train the next day.


PS. Another question that I had was whether there were any complications, Interrail pass wise, when crossing into Austria from Germany?
None. No resrvations needed until leaving Budapest.
 

Ian99

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Using the Astra Transcarpatic sleeper or another night stop? Still lots of choices.

ATC leaves Arad 1948 arraving Bucurest 0816 plus delays. Linz 0817-Arad 1829 could work, the border padding times probably mean you get that far on time. If you don't want 24 hours in Bucurest that should catch the 1011 onwards, a day earlier than your plan, because if late you can change at Videle.

Thank you very much for your further thoughts, nwales58 - is the following what you describe?
1740472219515.png
 

Segedunum

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I can vouch that the Astra Transcarpatic Sleeper is actually a decent experience. I did it in an en-suite room for relatively cheap - the shower was in a proper little glass cubicle and the staff came around handing out various nibbles after departure. Bed was comfortable and I essentially slept most of the night!
 

Ian99

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The Astra Trans Carpatic option looks great - I will have used an interrail day to get to Arad so makes sense if possible to also use it on Astra Trans Carpatic. Info online suggests that one can but it's not obvious where to buy a reservation/ Has anyone got any info on that please?
 

rvdborgt

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The Astra Trans Carpatic option looks great - I will have used an interrail day to get to Arad so makes sense if possible to also use it on Astra Trans Carpatic. Info online suggests that one can
Which info online? Do you have a URL?
AFAIK, in Romania, you can only use Interrail on CFR trains.
 

Ian99

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Which info online? Do you have a URL?
AFAIK, in Romania, you can only use Interrail on CFR trains.
Ah, it looks like I may be mistaken. Sorry. I was looking at the wrong Arad to Bucharest night train.

So it looks as though I can't use the Interrail for that journey but the tickets look reasonable. It also looks like I can book them now but if I don't get to Arad in time, I can possibly cancel for a refund.

1740517871877.png

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I can vouch that the Astra Transcarpatic Sleeper is actually a decent experience. I did it in an en-suite room for relatively cheap - the shower was in a proper little glass cubicle and the staff came around handing out various nibbles after departure. Bed was comfortable and I essentially slept most of the night!
Any thoughts on why the single sleeper is the same price as the Single sleeper deluxe?

1740575469262.png
 
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nwales58

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Any thoughts on why the single sleeper is the same price as the Single sleeper deluxe?
That is how they priced it all the times I was there last year. Deluxe can run out of course, it's fewer than half the compartments.

Beware that although the web site shows both available Deluxe may not be. Can't remember how far you have to go through the booking but it could be entering all the details then just before paying it tells you that cabin type is full. So you may find the sleepers are full despite what you see at the start. That was end September or early October booking a day or so ahead.
 

Ian99

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Thanks for your input - I've bought the ticket and seem to have a, "Dormit lux single" so all good. It has a QR code so maybe it doesn't need to be printed?
 

Ian99

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So this was going well until this morning when I see that the
Wien0940hrstoBudapest-Keleti1219hrs
is cancelled.

Now wondering if I'll get to Arad today in time for the sleeper.

Looks like I'll be at Wien hautbanhhof at 0946hrs which means that I wouldn't have got the 0940hrs anyway unless I'd worked out that the faster earlier train I got on doesn't go to the Wien station I wanted.

Anyway, what to do to get towards Turkey?
 
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Andover

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Doesn't look to be cancelled AFAICT, but I'm guessing that's moot anyway now.

There's still couchette availability on the Muntenia (dep Keleti 1510), which would allow you to rejoin your itinerary at Videle, with three hours to spare for delays.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Bahn.com says the next option from Vienna Hbf for Bucharest is the 1140 RJX61 to Budapest Keleti arr 1419, then the 1510 IC79 to Bucharest arr 0936.
That leaves you 25 minutes to make the Ruse train.
Or you could change at Videle and pick it up there (0832/1127).
 
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Ian99

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There's an earlier EC at 1040 too.
Thanks. I'm sitting on it now!

Not sure if I needed a reservation or not....

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to go with my interrail pass
 

Ian99

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This train is due to arrive at 1319 hrs so I can get the 1510hrs towards Bucharest as suggested thanks. I see this 1510hrs train also stops at Arad timetabled for 1932hrs according to OBB. But dbahn shows it as 2032hrs.

Either way, too late to try for the 1948 ATC sleeper I guess?

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With my confusion it looks like I left it too late and the 1510 hrs is showing as sold out now anyway.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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ÖBB also shows 2032 for IC79 arrival at Arad.
Although that is 1932 AT/HU time (hour added at the RO border).
That train wastes a lot of time getting from Szolnok to Arad (3 hours for 153 km).
 

Andover

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With my confusion it looks like I left it too late and the 1510 hrs is showing as sold out now anyway.
It isn't, you can still book at jegy.mav.hu or in person when you get to Budapest.

Remember your Interrail day is still valid on IC79 until you reach your destination in Romania (which I would urge to be Videle, doubling back via Bucharest is playing with fire IMHO). So all you need is a reservation.
 
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