Reason behind the Sleeper's call at Watford Junction

[BlueLeanie]

Curious about the reasoning behind the Sleeper's call at Watford Junction.

Is it simply a suitable holding/timing spot before it continues onto Euston if it's running too early or is there a more historic reason?

With the opening of East-West in early course would a call at Bletchley or Milton Keynes instead drive improved connectivity?

 

[sh24]

Bus connection to Heathrow I believe, along with that's what it's always done .

 

[paul1609]

I think it dates back to the dedicated rail air link to Heathrow per sh24 but realistically the connection to the 06.52 West London Line service to East Croydon via Clapham Junction is going to provide loads more connectivity than East West is ever going to.

 

[telstarbox]

Why would you connect to Heathrow onto a non guaranteed bus rather than having a guaranteed connection on a domestic flight from Scotland?

 

[12LDA28C]

The ‘Sleeper’ has called at Watford for as long as I can remember, picking up heading north and setting down heading south. I’ve never considered this noteworthy, any more than a WCML train to or from Liverpool or Glasgow calling at Watford.

 

[Djgr]

The ‘Sleeper’ has called at Watford for as long as I can remember, picking up heading north and setting down heading south. I’ve never considered this noteworthy, any more than a WCML train to or from Liverpool or Glasgow calling at Watford.

It probably just a throwback from the days when many WCML trains called at Watford Junction and nobody has seen reason/noticed to change it.

 

[The exile]

Why would you connect to Heathrow onto a non guaranteed bus rather than having a guaranteed connection on a domestic flight from Scotland?

May be daft if you’re coming from Edinburgh / Glasgow itself, but less so from Aviemore / Fort William / Montrose etc. However, I suspect that the real reason is historic but that there’s no pressing reason to change it, so why bother?

 

[A S Leib]

May be daft if you’re coming from Edinburgh / Glasgow itself, but less so from Aviemore / Fort William / Montrose etc. However, I suspect that the real reason is historic but that there’s no pressing reason to change it, so why bother?

Although the Highlander hasn't called at Watford Junction since 2020 (northbound) and longer (southbound), as far as I can remember, which reduces that benefit.

Looking at old Wikipedia pages, it looks like the southbound Highlander hasn't called at Watford Junction since at least 2006, and that until 2014 the Fort William portion served Westerton instead of Glasgow Queen Street low level.

 

[The exile]

Although the Highlander hasn't called at Watford Junction since 2019 (northbound) and longer (southbound), as far as I can remember, which reduces that benefit.

Shows how long it is since I was an occasional user!

 

[A S Leib]

I might have got the exact year wrong, although it definitely served Watford Junction immediately pre-Covid and doesn't now.

 

[BeijingDave]

Watford itself is a conurbation of nearly 100,000 people. Makes sense to put in a stop before London in some ways, and have more potential sleeper customers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Watford itself is a conurbation of nearly 100,000 people. Makes sense to put in a stop before London in some ways, and have more potential sleeper customers.

It's in effect an M25 Parkway.

 

[The exile]

Watford itself is a conurbation of nearly 100,000 people. Makes sense to put in a stop before London in some ways, and have more potential sleeper customers.

And it’s not as if the few minutes it costs are material on a sleeper journey.

 

[jfollows]

I might have got the exact year wrong, although it definitely served Watford Junction immediately pre-Covid and doesn't now.

Yes, May 2019 1S25 called at Watford Junction to pick up, at 21:34, but 1M16 passed in the up direction at 07/30. As you said earlier.

 

[cle]

The Sleepers should both definitely call at Watford. It's not long in/out of Euston to be disruptive - and at night people don't want to change so having a railhead is better (vs changing or trekking into Euston) - and it covers a whole swathe of North London and Herts/Bucks, much beyond the town of Watford itself. Which is not insignificant.

It's the busiest station on the WCML between London and Birmingham/Manchester (Queens Park, Willesden Junction and Wembley Central hover around the 8-10m range when combined with tube) - and after HS2 should see more calls back.

 

[A S Leib]

Of course there's a lot of differences (time of day, proximity to London suburbs / M25, population, air and daytime rail alternatives), but has the Night Riviera always called at Reading in recent history?

after HS2 should see more calls back.

Hertfordshire County Council's 2015 rail strategy had a goal of all long-distance services calling at Watford Junction. I can't find the source right now, but at another point the aim was 2 tph to Birmingham and 1 tph to each of Liverpool and Manchester, which feels more realistic (can probably do without a Watford – Chester / north Wales link).

 

[sh24]

Pretty sure the Night Riveria has always called at Reading, and back in the 80's also Bristol TM and Taunton too.

 

[Krokodil]

Pretty sure the Night Riveria has always called at Reading, and back in the 80's also Bristol TM and Taunton too.

The Night Riviera has to stop in a number of places to waste time to avoid arriving too early. It certainly called at Taunton when I last caught it from there (2016), I believe that it doesn't do so on a Sunday night/Monday morning in order to facilitate diversions via the Mule.

 

[irp]

While drifting off topic, The Down Night Riviera stops at Reading to pick up passengers, but also to drop off the rear loco [which ever one it may be], so it can then be used to drag the ECS to Paddington for the next night's service

 

[Failed Unit]

I think back in BR days it was for the M25 traffic. Luton, Stevenage also had the same justification as others have said. A North London park and ride. Less express services stop at any of them now. But this is just a throwback,

 

[The exile]

I think back in BR days it was for the M25 traffic. Luton, Stevenage also had the same justification as others have said. A North London park and ride. Less express services stop at any of them now. But this is just a throwback,

The outer London stops long predate the M25, though.

 

[cle]

And Stevenage has had a renaissance. Watford/WCML by far and away has more tph which makes it harder. The ECML is much sparser - although continually growing and more OA floating around off-cycle!

Luton for long distance is dead, Corby aside (and I question that need) - and it is less used than Airport Parkway, if another Luton area stop was ever required, it'd be there.

 

[Horizon22]

While drifting off topic, The Down Night Riviera stops at Reading to pick up passengers, but also to drop off the rear loco [which ever one it may be], so it can then be used to drag the ECS to Paddington for the next night's service

I was going to say the loco move is also an important factor for the Reading call.

 

[A S Leib]

And Stevenage has had a renaissance. Watford/WCML by far and away has more tph which makes it harder. The ECML is much sparser - although continually growing and more OA floating around off-cycle!

As well as going from a bihourly York service (alternating with Lincoln) to an hourly Newcastle service from December on top of Lumo.

Luton for long distance is dead, Corby aside (and I question that need) - and it is less used than Airport Parkway, if another Luton area stop was ever required, it'd be there.

This has been done on other threads and is going off-topic, but if HS2 to at least East Midlands Parkway had gone ahead and if the Universal theme park gets built, I think at least one hourly long-distance call for either Luton station or Bedford would be warranted.

 

[StephenHunter]

The outer London stops long predate the M25, though.

They're more Home Counties than actual London. There would have been at least some traffic there even in steam days.