Could Scotrail get some loco-hauled trains?

[Dalmeny Jct]

Moderator note: Split from

Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

I know this might just prompt the repetition of many arguments that have already been had many times over... Perhaps we can keep this thread focused on the situation now rather than discussions about whether the HST project should have happened in the first place. So far it's had to survive the...

www.railforums.co.uk

It's time to bring back some loco-hauled reinforcements - perhaps this time they can find room for them at Millerhill or Slateford instead of running empty to Motherwell and back. All a bit academic of course, there probably isn't any coaching stock, or money...

 

[BlueLeanie]

The Scottish Government already lease Mark5 coaches for their other brands.

 

[12LDA28C]

ScotRail already operate Mark5 coaches

Do they? Where?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

The Jacobite stock and a 37 is available until early April.

And how many ScotRail drivers sign 37s and Mk1 / Mk2 stock? You wouldn’t even be able to get a training course agreed and in place by April.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

ScotRail already operate Mark5 coaches

No they don't.

 

[Backroom_boy]

ScotRail already operate Mark5 coaches

You mean the sleeper train?

 

[Falcon1200]

The Caledonian Sleepers are a completely separate operation from Scotrail, so as said above Scotrail do not operate Mark 5 coaches.

 

[chuff chuff]

And how many ScotRail drivers sign 37s and Mk1 / Mk2 stock? You wouldn’t even be able to get a training course agreed and in place by April.

Em been a while might need a couple of days,Mk 1 don't think so,did scotrail rent some from Pete Waterman.

 

[Fundee on Tay]

Class 68 - Mk5 would be relatively quick to put in place on some peak time Fife services.

I think what’s more likely is 156s moving east after East Kilbride’s electrification, as they can probably just about keep to time on Fife Circle services. They could strengthen services and cascade 158s/170s to more I7C services when needed.

 

[InvHst]

Class 68 - Mk5 would be relatively quick to put in place on some peak time Fife services.

I think what’s more likely is 156s moving east after East Kilbride’s electrification, as they can probably just about keep to time on Fife Circle services. They could strengthen services and cascade 158s/170s to more I7C services when needed.

Isn't enough electric units to run a full EK timetable and 156s are nearly life expired they won't be going east.

68s and Mk5s won't happen as they aren't interested in them

 

[Fundee on Tay]

Isn't enough electric units to run a full EK timetable and 156s are nearly life expired they won't be going east.

68s and Mk5s won't happen as they aren't interested in them

So when EK is electrified it’ll still be DMU operated?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

So when EK is electrified it’ll still be DMU operated?

Partly, yes.

 

[92002]

So when EK is electrified it’ll still be DMU operated?

Would think they will manage to find some off lease emus, like 350s to fit the bill. Not many 321s left that could be converted now. The 350s still have a good few years left in them yet.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Would think they will manage to find some off lease emus, like 350s to fit the bill. Not many 321s left that could be converted now. The 350s still have a good few years left in them yet.

I'd have expected training to have already started if that is the case.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Could the Caledonian 73s based at Aberdeen and Inverness haul a daytime diagram or two of Mk2-Mk5 stock between the two cities to release stock?

 

[JonathanH]

Could the Caledonian 73s based at Aberdeen and Inverness haul a daytime diagram or two of Mk2-Mk5 stock between the two cities to release stock?

What rolling stock could trains only available between 10am and 7pm release?

 

[43096]

Class 68 - Mk5 would be relatively quick to put in place on some peak time Fife services.

What makes you think they would be relatively quick to put into service?

 

[sannox]

Would think they will manage to find some off lease emus, like 350s to fit the bill. Not many 321s left that could be converted now. The 350s still have a good few years left in them yet.

They'd need to get cracking given timeline to reopening.

 

[Class15]

What rolling stock could trains only available between 10am and 7pm release?

PM peak for a start

 

[BlueLeanie]

Looking at the Aberdeen 73, it arrives into Aberdeen at 07:50, then departs at 20:26.

That means the loco would potentially be able to haul the:-

08:23 Aberdeen to Inverness (arr 10:35)
10:56 Inverness to Aberdeen (arr 13:09)
13:41 Aberdeen to Inverness (arr 15:58)
17:20 Inverness to Aberdeen (arr 19:36)

Whether or not that's useful is a different matter of course.

 

[Bill57p9]

I do not believe that ScotRail is in the market for stop gap rolling stock, unlike days of old (e.g. 365s & Fife Circle 68s). If they were then 769s could be an option for East Kilbride & Kilmarnock complete with some eco kudos, however they seem to be planning for diesel under the wires until their big replacement programme.

Isn't enough electric units to run a full EK timetable and 156s are nearly life expired they won't be going east.

The 156s are now looking very tired and lacking mod cons especially on long distance services such as West Highland and Glasgow & South Western, however there seems zero appetite for anything other than sweating them for many more years.

68s and Mk5s won't happen as they aren't interested in them

Which is a real shame since they’re bang on the original I7C spec and just sat there. And while there may be fewer sets than HSTs, if availability is considered they would probably be similar quantities.

 

[Harpo]

Looking at the Aberdeen 73, it arrives into Aberdeen at 07:50, then departs at 20:26.

That means the loco would potentially be able to haul the:-

08:23 Aberdeen to Inverness (arr 10:35)
10:56 Inverness to Aberdeen (arr 13:09)
13:41 Aberdeen to Inverness (arr 15:58)
17:20 Inverness to Aberdeen (arr 19:36)

Whether or not that's useful is a different matter of course.

Perfect if you don’t need to maintain, fuel, clean, stock or water anything laying over at Aberdeen

 

[BlueLeanie]

So does a loco need to be attached and running for Maisie, Bessie, Bunty & Senga to change the sheets and run the vacuum around the coaching stock?

You'd think they'd install a land hook-up.

Seems incredibly wasteful, and doesn't align with the Scottish Government's net zero ambitions.

 

[Bill57p9]

So does a loco need to be attached and running for Maisie, Bessie, Bunty & Senga to change the sheets and run the vacuum around the coaching stock?

You'd think they'd install a land hook-up.

Seems incredibly wasteful, and doesn't align with the Scottish Government's net zero ambitions.

Neither does having 3 power units on the Fort William sleeper, or planning to run diesel under the wires to East Kilbride

 

[43096]

Which is a real shame since they’re bang on the original I7C spec and just sat there. And while there may be fewer sets than HSTs, if availability is considered they would probably be similar quantities.

HST usage appears to be around 14 sets per day currently. How do you propose that 13 Mark 5 sets would replace that, given you probably can only get around 11 diagrams out of the Mark 5s? And there's nothing to say that availability would be that good - ScotRail have struggled chronically with the HSTs (where no-one else has). What's to say the issue isn't ScotRail's competence rather than the train itself?

 

[Fundee on Tay]

What makes you think they would be relatively quick to put into service?

ScotRail have run 68s previously

 

[43096]

ScotRail have run 68s previously

Not really. They were driven by DRS crews as part of the contract for DRS to provide the trains.

They would be a completely new type for ScotRail.