Thameslink Witness statement Receipt

[bskinner]

Hi everyone,

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. I have been issued a witness statement receipt after a run in with a ticket inspector on a Thameslink service.

In essence it is for short ticketing, something which I have to ashamedly admit I have done multiple times in the past unknowing of the repercussions (this is not an excuse, I was just unaware of the severity of short ticketing). I would just like some advice going forward on how best to handle the situation.

I have been able to read similar situations from this thread and ultimately I just want to avoid prosecution and would like the opportunity to settle this out of court. How best can I go about ensuring that I can settle this out of court?

I understand I will be receiving a letter that will be asking me about the situation from my perspective. A few questions on this:

1. They said it should come within 14 days but curious from others to see what their experience has been as I’ve seen some take much longer than this.

2. I can imagine that they will look into my account history and see that I have short ticketed in the past. Do you think they will mention this in the letter? If not should I mention it when responding?

Also I was wondering what the steps are after I send a response (also curious whether this is done by email or I have to mail a physical letter to them.) and let’s say I do get the opportunity to settle out of court what would a time frame be to expect to receive that confirmation that I can do that and when and how I would pay.

I am happy to explain the exact situation that led to me being given a witness statement receipt if that is helpful, but considering I have short ticketed in the past I don’t think it would make much a difference. I would say the situation isn’t exactly short ticketing but in essence it is what I was trying to do. Also I have not been previously flagged or caught by Thameslink before.

Apologies for the long post but would be really grateful for any advice you could provide.

 

[John R]

If it wasn’t short ticketing but something similar then it would probably help to know exactly what you were doing. Ie where you were travelling from and to, and what ticket had you purchased.

 

[bskinner]

If it wasn’t short ticketing but something similar then it would probably help to know exactly what you were doing. Ie where you were travelling from and to, and what ticket had you purchased.

So I was travelling from Blackfriars to East Croydon, but the ticket I scanned at the barriers at Blackfriars was one from Blackfriars to London Bridge (a short ticket). When I got onto the train I bought a ticket for the next train from Blackfriars to East Croydon (so was a ticket for a train departing at a different time to the one I was on).

Before I had even reached London Bridge I was asked by a ticket inspector for my ticket. I showed them my Blackfriars to east Croydon ticket but the inspector had noticed I had bought this ticket whilst on the train. She then asked what ticket I had used to get through the barrier and I then showed her my Blackfriars to London Bridge ticket. She basically inferred that I had short ticketed the journey. She then took my details and said I would receive a letter from the prosecution team asking for my side of the story.

One thing I am curious of is that this happened before I had even reached London Bridge so I technically had the right ticket for that journey if I had got off at London Bridge. But I do understand that I first showed her the east Croydon ticket first, which I had bought whilst on the train, and I know you can’t travel with a ticket for a different time train.

Ultimately if they check my account history, which I’m sure they would, it would be pretty clear that I have short ticketed in the past. So I’m not sure how I should go about the whole situation.

 

[Hadders]

1. They said it should come within 14 days but curious from others to see what their experience has been as I’ve seen some take much longer than this.

Letters typically take a few weeks to arrive. Train copany teams dealing with these issues are quite small and they have a large workload.

2. I can imagine that they will look into my account history and see that I have short ticketed in the past. Do you think they will mention this in the letter? If not should I mention it when responding?

They might mention in in their letter. My advice is normally to asnwer the questions they ask you. When it arrives post a copy of GTR's letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will poroof read it for you.

Also I was wondering what the steps are after I send a response (also curious whether this is done by email or I have to mail a physical letter to them.) and let’s say I do get the opportunity to settle out of court what would a time frame be to expect to receive that confirmation that I can do that and when and how I would pay.

GTR normally send you a physical letter. The letter will tell you how to reply, some train companies are happy with an email although I think GTR want a physical letter.

What happens is after you reply to their initial letter GTR will write to you with the outcome. There are three possibilities:

- No further action - highlyunlikely given what you've told us
- Issue court papers
- Offer an out of court settlement (this is the most likely outcome)

GTR will normally expect the settlement to be paid in full within a few days of it being offered. Their letter will give you the exact details.

I am happy to explain the exact situation that led to me being given a witness statement receipt if that is helpful, but considering I have short ticketed in the past I don’t think it would make much a difference. I would say the situation isn’t exactly short ticketing but in essence it is what I was trying to do. Also I have not been previously flagged or caught by Thameslink before.

My advice is normally to keep the letter short and concise. You will find plenty of examples of letters you can adapt for your case in this section of the forum.

 

[John R]

So let me guess - buy a short ticket each end to get through the barriers, and then refund the full ticket if it isn't scanned on the journey?

 

[bskinner]

Letters typically take a few weeks to arrive. Train copany teams dealing with these issues are quite small and they have a large workload.


They might mention in in their letter. My advice is normally to asnwer the questions they ask you. When it arrives post a copy of GTR's letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will poroof read it for you.


GTR normally send you a physical letter. The letter will tell you how to reply, some train companies are happy with an email although I think GTR want a physical letter.

What happens is after you reply to their initial letter GTR will write to you with the outcome. There are three possibilities:

- No further action - highlyunlikely given what you've told us
- Issue court papers
- Offer an out of court settlement (this is the most likely outcome)

GTR will normally expect the settlement to be paid in full within a few days of it being offered. Their letter will give you the exact details.


My advice is normally to keep the letter short and concise. You will find plenty of examples of letters you can adapt for your case in this section of the forum.

Thank you so much for your advice this is incredibly helpful. I’ll be sure to post my letter as well as a draft response to get feedback from other members.

Is there anything I can do on my end to ensure that this ends with an out of court settlement? Or is it just if I cooperate and I am helpful with their investigation that should be enough?

Also is there a rough timeframe between when I give my response and their outcome? Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it!

 

[bskinner]

So let me guess - buy a short ticket each end to get through the barriers, and then refund the full ticket if it isn't scanned on the journey?

Well tbh with you I would just buy the short ticket on one end because there isn’t a ticket barrier from where I’d get on. Also I normally wouldn’t buy the full ticket journey if I was also buying a short ticket, but I did this time because I saw the ticket inspector and thought it would be better to buy the full one rather than show my short one, even though that short journey hadn’t been completed yet. However since the inspector saw I had only just bought the full ticket whilst on the train this had raised a concern with her.

 

[John R]

Is there anything I can do on my end to ensure that this ends with an out of court settlement? Or is it just if I cooperate and I am helpful with their investigation that should be enough?

If you add being totally honest with them to cooperation and helpfulness then from our experience GTR almost always settle. Normally companies are quite quick to respond, as they have usually done any background investigation (typically with your online account(s)) before writing to you, so once they are corresponding with you they will want to get the case closed off quickly.

 

[bskinner]

If you add being totally honest with them to cooperation and helpfulness then from our experience GTR almost always settle. Normally companies are quite quick to respond, as they have usually done any background investigation (typically with your online account(s)) before writing to you, so once they are corresponding with you they will want to get the case closed off quickly.

Ok thanks that’s really helpful, I’ll be sure to do all three.

 

[John R]

Well tbh with you I would just buy the short ticket on one end because there isn’t a ticket barrier from where I’d get on. Also I normally wouldn’t buy the full ticket journey if I was also buying a short ticket, but I did this time because I saw the ticket inspector and thought it would be better to buy the full one rather than show my short one, even though that short journey hadn’t been completed yet. However since the inspector saw I had only just bought the full ticket whilst on the train this had raised a concern with her.

OK, so that's classic short ticketing then. And yes, it's very likely that your account will be investigated for similar instances.

 

[bskinner]

OK, so that's classic short ticketing then. And yes, it's very likely that your account will be investigated for similar instances.

Ok thanks for clarifying. Also just wondering if there is a cap on how much the out of court settlement would be? Or is it just every time they believe I have used a short ticket I would have to pay the full ticket price, as well as the admin fee? And I’m guessing whatever that out of court settlement fee is, it would only be disclosed to me if they decide that to be the outcome. So I send my response and then they give me the outcome and I have to pay whatever they say in that outcome within a few days?

 

[John R]

There’s no cap. (We have seen cases in the low thousands, and a couple of big cases reported in the press have been over £10,000, when the evasion has been going on for years as part of a daily commute.) They will assess the correct fare for each journey. And yes, they’ll obviously only tell you that if they decide to offer it to you.

You’ll typically have 14 days to pay, else they will move to prosecute you.

 

[bskinner]

There’s no cap. (We have seen cases in the low thousands, and a couple of big cases reported in the press have been over £10,000, when the evasion has been going on for years as part of a daily commute.) They will assess the correct fare for each journey. And yes, they’ll obviously only tell you that if they decide to offer it to you.

You’ll typically have 14 days to pay, else they will move to prosecute you.

Ok thanks for the advice once again. Is there a standard correct fare that they assign for each journey they believe to be short ticketed? I’ve seen somewhere saying it was the anytime single price of £30, but wasn’t sure.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok thanks for the advice once again. Is there a standard correct fare that they assign for each journey they believe to be short ticketed? I’ve seen somewhere saying it was the anytime single price of £30, but wasn’t sure.

You should assume they will charge it at the Anytime Single fare for the journey concerned.

 

[island]

It’s not clear an offence was committed on this occasion. The passenger held a valid ticket upon boarding the train, did not at any point travel beyond the point to which their fare was paid, and presented a ticket for inspection.

 

[bskinner]

Hello everyone, thank you for all your help and guidance thus far. I have just now received the letter stating their intention to prosecute. I am hoping to get your advice on how best to reply to this letter in order to be able to settle this out of court. I will post the letter here with confidential information blurred. Thanks again for the help and I look forward to reading the advice.

 

[AlterEgo]

From what you have told us, you are not guilty of that offence.

 

[bskinner]

From what you have told us, you are not guilty of that offence.

I’d be inclined to agree with you for this situation, but if I’m honest I have short ticketed that journey a handful of times before so I don’t feel like I’m in a position to dispute this. I’m also curious as to whether they have checked my travel history or not because if they did I would’ve assumed they would bring up previous offences.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’d be inclined to agree with you for this situation, but if I’m honest I have short ticketed that journey a handful of times before so I don’t feel like I’m in a position to dispute this.

You could simply write back and enclose your tickets for the journey, explaining they are valid and they are the ones you showed. But I agree this is a higher risk strategy and you may not have the appetite for that.

I’m also curious as to whether they have checked my travel history or not because if they did I would’ve assumed they would bring up previous offences.

I don't believe they have, else they would have mentioned it.

 

[Haywain]

I don't believe they have, else they would have mentioned it.

I agree with this but it should be noted that GTR seem to be more likely to bring this up in a further communication after you have responded.

 

[Hadders]

You've essentially got two options:

1. Reply saying that on the day you were stopped you held a valid combination of tickets for the journey you were making. Based on what you've told us GTR would not be able to successfully prosecute you but they might still try and do so. They would certainly send more threatening letters alluding to all sorts of consequences. They would also likely audit your ticket purchase history. Again, they wouldn't be able to prosecute based on purchase history alone, they would need something else to demonstrate you had travelled but again, they would make life uncomfortable with letters, potential consequences etc. It's certainly a higher risk strategy because it is just possible (but highly unlikely) that they have some sort of evidence that shows you made journeys with short tickets.

2. Co-operate with GTR and 'fess-up' to what you've been doing. GTR wil offer an out of court settlement and once paid the matter goes away.

It really depends on your appetite for risk and a fight

 

[bskinner]

You've essentially got two options:

1. Reply saying that on the day you were stopped you held a valid combination of tickets for the journey you were making. Based on what you've told us GTR would not be able to successfully prosecute you but they might still try and do so. They would certainly send more threatening letters alluding to all sorts of consequences. They would also likely audit your ticket purchase history. Again, they wouldn't be able to prosecute based on purchase history alone, they would need something else to demonstrate you had travelled but again, they would make life uncomfortable with letters, potential consequences etc. It's certainly a higher risk strategy because it is just possible (but highly unlikely) that they have some sort of evidence that shows you made journeys with short tickets.

2. Co-operate with GTR and 'fess-up' to what you've been doing. GTR wil offer an out of court settlement and once paid the matter goes away.

It really depends on your appetite for risk and a fight

Hi Hadders,

Thank you very much for your guidance here. I absolutely don’t have any inclination to risk this going to court so I would much prefer taking the route of settling out of court and paying. I just have two questions going about this second option you proposed.

First, regarding the writing of a reply, how should I actually go about to ‘fessing to what I did’? How can I write it so that they are inclined to offer the out of court settlement? What are the key things to include in a reply for this?

Second, considering there is no mention of previous offences in this letter, is this something I will not be prosecuted on? Essentially I’m wondering wether the out of court settlement just involves this case or previous ones as well? For instance what happens if I just fess up to this case because that is what has been brought forward and I don’t mention previous ones?

Thanks again for the help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2025 ==

Hi everyone, I have written a draft response to this letter aiming to achieve an out of court settlement. I have looked at other threads to guide me so far. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Draft response:

Dear Fare Evasion Manager,

Ref number: (insert ref number)


I am writing in response to your letter dated (insert date) regarding the fare evasion incident that took place on (insert date).


I would like to begin by sincerely apologising for my actions. On the day in question, I failed to purchase the correct ticket for my journey. This was a result of poor judgement, and I take full responsibility for my actions. I deeply regret this decision and any inconvenience caused.


Since this incident I have taken steps to ensure that this does not repeat itself. I now verify before every journey that I hold the correct ticket to travel and have familiarised myself with the rules and regulations regarding ticketing.


I fully acknowledge the importance of complying with fare regulations and now understand the wider impact fare evasion has on the rail industry.


I am keen to resolve this matter amicably and avoid further escalation. To address this, I wondered if it would be possible to settle this matter by paying the outstanding fares, any administrative costs or penalties as required.


Thank you for taking the time to consider my response. Please let me know if there is any further action required from me. I hope to reach a constructive resolution to this matter.



Yours faithfully,

 

[bskinner]

In case anyone was curious I got a reply from them agreeing to an out of court settlement of £60

 

[dciuk]

In case anyone was curious I got a reply from them agreeing to an out of court settlement of £60

That sounds like a good deal, even though they were going to take you to court over a different offence to the one you had committed. In future always make sure you have the correct ticket for your journey before boarding the train as if they catch you again it is likely to be much more expensive to sort out next time

 

[bskinner]

That sounds like a good deal, even though they were going to take you to court over a different offence to the one you had committed. In future always make sure you have the correct ticket for your journey before boarding the train as if they catch you again it is likely to be much more expensive to sort out next time

Yes it’s a big relief considering I initially thought I’d have a criminal record for this. I’m grateful I was able to sort this matter out of court. I have since this incident ensured that every journey I make is with the correct ticket and will continue to do so as I do not want a repeat of this. Thanks for everyone’s help, this whole forum is a lifesaver!