Fine for expired Railcard on a ~£3 journey

[hifr]

Hi everyone

I received a letter in the post yesterday about an incident that happened in October, and wanted to get some advice to see if it is worth challenging.

On 18th October, on the Chiltern Railways train from Bicester Village (BIT) to Oxford (OXF), a ticket inspector checked my ticket and told me my Railcard (on the Trainline app) had expired. At this point I genuinely had no idea it was close to expiring, and so was relieved to see it only expired 9 days earlier, and I'd taken no other trips in this time.

He went through all the questions and wrote his report but it was very amicable and he said they would call me very soon to get my side of the story, and if I "wasn't on the system" likely nothing would happen. I didn't receive any call from them that I know of, and guessed they decided not to pursue it.

However, yesterday (1st March) I got a letter in the post saying I had 14 days to pay their £72.60 fine (see letter). While I accept I am responsible for not having a valid Railcard and have since seen posts here with much larger £150+ fines or court threats, it still seems to me extremely steep to charge this much for accidentally saving just over a pound. I am also planning to ask for a little detail on how they came to the value of £72.60.

So, I'd be very grateful if anyone could help me understand what can I expect to gain (or lose) from disputing this claim, and if there's something here that could potentially help my case.

Here are some the main points I am planning to raise. I accept that some may not make a difference legally, but I hope at least add some context to the situation.

- I fully accepted it was an honest mistake, which the ticket inspector seemed to empathise with.
- We dealt with it amicably, which the inspector said he included in my report.
- The very short distance/low ticket price.
- My Railcard had expired recently.
- I bought a Railcard immediately after the conversation (before boarding a different train for the next stage of my journey).
- They didn't call me like I was told to expect to get my side of events (unless it was a while later and left no message I suppose).
- It's the first time this has happened, and I've taken the same route many times over the last five/six years.

It's also a bit odd they took so long to contact me, but I imagine that doesn't matter much as long as its in within a 6 month period.

At the end of the day, while I am quite annoyed at this situation, I accept if there is no better alternative than paying the £72.60. At least I can say I won't make the same mistake again!

Thank you for any help!


More information:
Ticket type: Adult - Anytime Day Return - [16-25 Railcard]
Journey: From Bicester Village to Reading (RDG), changing trains at Oxford
Tickets purchased: 17th October, on the Trainline app
NB: I don't have the exact price paid for that part of the journey, but believe it was £3 something.

 

[methecooldude]

What were your orignal tickets? Split tickets? Advances?

I am also planning to ask for a little detail on how they came to the value of £72.60.

The amount is born from £22.60 for the Anytime Day Single from BIT to RDG (based on the fares in October - https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=BIT&dest=RDG&period=20240928) + £50... essentially it's a reduced penalty fare without the ability to formally appeal it.

- I fully accepted it was an honest mistake, which the ticket inspector seemed to empathise with.

Doesn't excuse the railcard being expired. Probably did help with the reduced admin fee tho.

- We dealt with it amicably, which the inspector said he included in my report.

As above

- The very short distance/low ticket price.

And?

- My Railcard had expired recently.

And? You are responsible for checking the expiry on your railcard, Trainline should have sent you an email near the time.

- I bought a Railcard immediately after the conversation (before boarding a different train for the next stage of my journey).

Well, that shows you don't intend to do it again, but doesn't excuse this instance

- They didn't call me like I was told to expect to get my side of events (unless it was a while later and left no message I suppose).

This was probually a tactic by the inspector to make sure it didn't escalate.

 

[alholmes]

At the time of travel, a single from Bicester Village to Reading (no railcard) was £22.60, so looks as though they’re charging that plus an admin fee of £50.

They didn’t issue you a penalty fare, which would have given you certain rights to appeal. Effectively they’re offering you the opportunity to pay £72.60 to shut down the case, otherwise it’ll go to court. If it goes to court, you will probably be found guilty (others here may have a better opinion), in which case it will cost significantly more than £72.60. Unfortunately none of the points you raise in mitigation are likely to make any difference.

Wait to see what others say here over next 24 hours, but it may be in your best interest to settle.

 

[CyrusWuff]

As you haven't previously come to Chiltern's attention, it looks like they're asking you to pay the equivalent of a Penalty Fare with the prompt payment discount applied.

This comprises the undiscounted Anytime fare between Bicester Village and Reading (£22.60) plus £50.

Whilst you could argue that the Penalty Fare Regulations say it should just be based on the fare between Bicester Village and Oxford (£6.10), given a PF can only be issued to a station served by the same train, you're highly unlike to get an option to dispose of this for any less than the £72.60 they're seeking.

Indeed, if they had calculated it under the PF regulations, you'd be looking at £6.10 + £50 for Bicester Village to Oxford, then a further £18.60 from Oxford to Reading, for a total of £74.70.

 

[Spaceship323]

It's also a bit odd they took so long to contact me, but I imagine that doesn't matter much as long as its in within a 6 month period.

Probably because they were researching whether you've made any other journeys with that card. I'd pay the settlement and put it down to experience.

 

[Snow1964]

Was it a single ticket or split tickets that you had.

If you had split tickets, then if you bought a new railcard before starting the Oxford-Reading journey, then that is separate and no penalty is due for that section.

If you had a ticket for whole journey (even though you had to change trains), then amount is full single plus a £50 admin fee.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you had a ticket for whole journey (even though you had to change trains), then correct amount is full single plus a £50 flat penalty fee for the error.

How is it "correct"? They can ask for the fare plus their costs; this isn't a Penalty Fare.

 

[Cuthbert]

Was it a single ticket or split tickets that you had.

If you had split tickets, then if you bought a new railcard before starting the Oxford-Reading journey, then that is separate and no penalty is due for that section.

If you had a ticket for whole journey (even though you had to change trains), then correct amount is full single plus a £50 flat penalty fee for the error.

Normally they would ask for £172.60. £150 admin and £22.60 for the standard single.

 

[hifr]

Thanks everyone for the replies and insight! Disappointed but not totally surprised that paying the fine is the logical thing to do.

As some have pointed out it was a single ticket, which at least explains the full £22.60 plus £50 to get £72.60.

As @Spaceship323 said, I will have to chalk it up to experience and make sure it doesn't happen again. The silver lining is that it could've much been worse had I been on more journeys without noticing

P.S. I do feel the need to say I am very surprised I didn't receive any notifications from Trainline or anywhere, either when it expired or when I bought the discounted tickets through Trainline with the expired Railcard on my account. (I know it's still 100% my responsibility, it's just odd they didn't do something as simple as send an email to avoid all this)

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone

I received a letter in the post yesterday about an incident that happened in October, and wanted to get some advice to see if it is worth challenging.

On 18th October, on the Chiltern Railways train from Bicester Village (BIT) to Oxford (OXF), a ticket inspector checked my ticket and told me my Railcard (on the Trainline app) had expired. At this point I genuinely had no idea it was close to expiring, and so was relieved to see it only expired 9 days earlier, and I'd taken no other trips in this time.

He went through all the questions and wrote his report but it was very amicable and he said they would call me very soon to get my side of the story, and if I "wasn't on the system" likely nothing would happen. I didn't receive any call from them that I know of, and guessed they decided not to pursue it.

However, yesterday (1st March) I got a letter in the post saying I had 14 days to pay their £72.60 fine (see letter). While I accept I am responsible for not having a valid Railcard and have since seen posts here with much larger £150+ fines or court threats, it still seems to me extremely steep to charge this much for accidentally saving just over a pound. I am also planning to ask for a little detail on how they came to the value of £72.60.

So, I'd be very grateful if anyone could help me understand what can I expect to gain (or lose) from disputing this claim, and if there's something here that could potentially help my case.

Here are some the main points I am planning to raise. I accept that some may not make a difference legally, but I hope at least add some context to the situation.

- I fully accepted it was an honest mistake, which the ticket inspector seemed to empathise with.
- We dealt with it amicably, which the inspector said he included in my report.
- The very short distance/low ticket price.
- My Railcard had expired recently.
- I bought a Railcard immediately after the conversation (before boarding a different train for the next stage of my journey).
- They didn't call me like I was told to expect to get my side of events (unless it was a while later and left no message I suppose).
- It's the first time this has happened, and I've taken the same route many times over the last five/six years.

It's also a bit odd they took so long to contact me, but I imagine that doesn't matter much as long as its in within a 6 month period.

At the end of the day, while I am quite annoyed at this situation, I accept if there is no better alternative than paying the £72.60. At least I can say I won't make the same mistake again!

Thank you for any help!


More information:
Ticket type: Adult - Anytime Day Return - [16-25 Railcard]
Journey: From Bicester Village to Reading (RDG), changing trains at Oxford
Tickets purchased: 17th October, on the Trainline app
NB: I don't have the exact price paid for that part of the journey, but believe it was £3 something.

I’d pay this because the risk of other option, including debating it with them, is that it costs more instead I’m afraid.

You have my sympathy however.

 

[Hadders]

This is an unfortunate incident but it's best to pay up to prevent the matter from escalating.

Something like this always feels unfair and disproportionate - a but like getting a parking ticket or speeding ticket but best to poay up and chalk it up to experience.

Regarding notifications about railcards about to expire I don't use Trainline but I suspect notifications depend on what settings you've set within the app - when you set up the app if you've said no to notifications then you're not going to get a reminder. Best thing to do is set your own reminder in your calendar for anything like this (eg insurance, TV license etc)

 

[fandroid]

The sum offered to settle is at the low end of what is usually demanded. Pay up and put that reminder in your phone calendar.