Why does TfW operate the Manchester - Cardiff? Should XC run it?

[Dr Day]

It will be interesting to see if people respond to the current GBR consultation raising these kind of issues, and whether anything changes to have a bigger picture rolling stock / capacity/ fares / resources plan across the whole of GB without actually making things more complicated for passengers in Wales and Borders, most of whom just want to get a train and don't care who runs it.

 

[Steveswan10]

Just wondering, who would operate a Swansea/Cardiff to Glasgow service (say 3/4 per day) if there was such a service and it went via the Marches (and would there be any restrictions on pick-up/set down)?

 

[Bikeman78]

@Bikeman78. Could you possibly explain / expand on that?

Announcements are made in Dutch in the Dutch speaking part of the country and French in the French part. Brussels is officially dual language so announcements are made in both. I think usually French first but I'm not certain. I would be perfectly happy for the above policy to be adopted in Wales, e.g. only Welsh announcements between Machynlleth and Pwllheli. I know enough Welsh to understand basic railway announcements.

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Plus all the request stop nonsense, luggage reminders, no smoking and "mind the gap" announcements, not to mention "see it, say it, sorted" in both languages and they never seem to shut up.
There isn't time between Manchester Piccadilly and Oxford Road before the announcements are cut off, only to start again after Oxford Road.
I can understand full announcements at key points in a journey, but not at every shack en route.

I thought they had been significantly reduced a few months ago? Something along the lines of "Welcome to Transport for Wales. We will be travelling to Manchester Piccadilly. The next stop is Newport." Perhaps it varies by route?

 

[tfw756rider]

I thought they had been significantly reduced a few months ago? Something along the lines of "Welcome to Transport for Wales. We will be travelling to Manchester Piccadilly. The next stop is Newport." Perhaps it varies by route?

The "Welcome to Transport for Wales" has been removed on at least some 197s.

I don't think the next stop (while at or departing the "current" stop) has ever been announced on them, but they do announce "we are now approaching..." when approaching the next stop.

Bearing those things in mind and the first two parts of post #58, I don't understand how the 197s can be auto-announcing too much, even with both languages in use!

 

[RailWonderer]

Announcements are made in Dutch in the Dutch speaking part of the country and French in the French part. Brussels is officially dual language so announcements are made in both. I think usually French first but I'm not certain. I would be perfectly happy for the above policy to be adopted in Wales, e.g. only Welsh announcements between Machynlleth and Pwllheli. I know enough Welsh to understand basic railway announcements.

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Don't you mean Flemish?

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It will be interesting to see if people respond to the current GBR consultation raising these kind of issues, and whether anything changes to have a bigger picture rolling stock / capacity/ fares / resources plan across the whole of GB without actually making things more complicated for passengers in Wales and Borders, most of whom just want to get a train and don't care who runs it.

The TfW/Wales and Borders operation will exist independant of GBR apparently so fares will most likely remain different to English operators.

 

[chrisjo]

Don't you mean Flemmish?

Flemish and Dutch are pretty much the same thing, only differing significantly in matters of pronounciation and usage, but no more than some British regional accents differ one from another.

 

[JRT]

Duplicate post deleted

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Don't you mean Flemmish?

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The TfW/Wales and Borders operation will exist indipendant of GBR apparently so fares will most likely remain different to English operators.

Well, yes and no. TfW will remain as the operator but the functions of the Wales route of NR will transfer to GBR. As it happens TfW and NR have a very close relationship and most of the network is co-managed by joint teams from the two organisations.

Since this is the speculative thread, I've often wondered if, in addition to the promised direct Cardiff - Liverpool sevices, the Marches line could be used to link Bristol and Liverpool. It seems a bit strange that there are no direct services linking two such important western cities.

 

[andrewslack]

I assume for historical reasons but since the majority of the service is in England and not Wales, why does TfW even want to operate it given it's not up to them to operate trains far into England. Is the route even profitable? Would it be better served by XC if they had enough units to operate it? Maybe in a GBR world this becomes a GB regional service (strange as Wales is technically GB with Scotland) and not a TfW service.

In my experience they don't operate it half the time!

 

[Envoy]

Since this is the speculative thread, I've often wondered if, in addition to the promised direct Cardiff - Liverpool sevices, the Marches line could be used to link Bristol and Liverpool. It seems a bit strange that there are no direct services linking two such important western cities.

Bristol to Liverpool is around 3 hours 20 minutes via the Midlands with 1 change. When TFW start their Cardiff to Liverpool service, hopefully the fares will undercut the present offering via the Midlands and the length of the journey will be at least comparable - even with a change at Newport for Bristol. What’s more, new direct trains Cardiff to Liverpool via The Marches will generate new customers to the route. This bodes well for boosting TFW’s income - if only they would get on and introduce this service. (I guess they can’t do this until all the 197’s are in service along with the FLIRT trains on the Cheltenham & Maesteg to Ebbw Vale services).

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In my experience they don't operate it half the time!

They have had reliability issues with the new 197’s and the Class 67 hauled Mark 4 sets.

 

[317 forever]

You have to remember that TfW is owned by the Welsh Government and there's an element of nationalism which believes all railways in Wales should be operated by a Welsh organisation. Without the Marches line, despite it running largely through England, to link them the Welsh railways would be in three isolated sections.

As it is, you get people with no knowledge of railway topography and history complaining that there are no direct rail links between north and south Wales without having to go into England.

An inconsistency is that Cardiff - Manchester is part of TfW Rail but Cardiff - Portsmouth and Cardiff - Birmingham are not (being GWR and XC instead).

Given that XC is basically Birmingham Express and TPE is basically Manchester Express including Glasgow, both of course excluding London, I think Manchester - Cardiff should be TPE.

 

[craigybagel]

An inconsistency is that Cardiff - Manchester is part of TfW Rail but Cardiff - Portsmouth and Cardiff - Birmingham are not (being GWR and XC instead).

Given that XC is basically Birmingham Express and TPE is basically Manchester Express including Glasgow, both of course excluding London, I think Manchester - Cardiff should be TPE.

Look at it like this.

Cardiff - Portsmouth spends most of it's time in a part of the country served predominantly by GWR. It's covered by crews based in Bristol, Westbury and Fratton, and for two of those three depots those crews also work lots of other GWR services on other routes.

Likewise, Cardiff - Birmingham is worked by crews based at Bristol and Birmingham, who also (with the exception of the small pool of Bristol based senior conductors) work other XC services.

Cardiff - Manchester is worked by Cardiff, Shrewsbury and Crewe crews, who as the route is nearly all in areas where TfW operate most services, are also able to work across a variety of other routes.

There is no other logical TOC who can work the service. Whoever else you choose, it's going to be out on a limb operationally, subject to much more disruption, and also extremely inefficient in comparison to what's in place now.

People frequently complain about this Welsh intrusion into England - but nobody yet has ever been able to suggest an alternative that isn't massively flawed.

 

[Harpo]

People frequently complain about this Welsh intrusion into England - but nobody yet has ever been able to suggest an alternative that isn't massively flawed.

Not this Englishman. I’ll suffer no end of bilingual nonsense to keep and develop the Marches services exactly as TfW are doing.

Just imagine what an awful cluster duck the Marches could have been under XC or what vile rolling stock (turbos?) GWR would have inflicted.

Keep going TfW!