Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[AlterEgo]

I'd be inclined to agree. The diplomatic route and fluffery like the "unprecedented" letter/state visit didn't succeed, so time for hard ball. Starting by cancelling that visit.

The goal of the letter and state visit was precisely to ensure that the UK enjoys a moderately less unprivileged position in Trump's mind and a slightly better position in Europe's mind, as we may end up being the messenger boy in future. Trump's a huge Anglophile - he does actually like the country.

 

[kristiang85]

I think that the time has come for Starmer to decide on which side this country stands: it is clear that his actions up to now, possibly intended to try and act as a bridge of moderation between Europe and the USA, haven’t worked. Not only is openly supporting Europe and the Ukraine the morally right, and probably more domestically and politically popular, thing to do, we can be quite sure that with the present pair in the White House, one day we will be dumped in the **** for the USA’s convenience. We have been taking the bullets, sometimes literally, for the US for a long time: the next time is likely to be much worse for no thanks or reward.

I feel Trump's unexpectedly easy ride to Starmer yesterday was a prelude to today. Now Starmer faces giving a state visit to Trump and facing the controversy that will entail domestically, or siding with Ukraine and alienating the US (and the issues that would cause).

 

[Tetchytyke]

You can’t appeal to Donald Trump’s better side because he doesn’t have one.

I firmly believe the EU should simply cut all ties with the USA. I think we should too. They’re a busted flush. They want to be isolationist? Let them.

Starmer trying to fluff up Trump is going to end just as badly. Humiliating? Only if you let it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

And if anyone thinks Tate is going to abide by his promise to go back to Romania, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Now is the time for the EU to unite, to have Romania’s back. Clearly they didn’t and clearly they won’t.

Very dangerous times we live in. President Xi must be creaming his pants.

 

[brad465]

You can’t appeal to Donald Trump’s better side because he doesn’t have one.

I firmly believe the EU should simply cut all ties with the USA. I think we should too. They’re a busted flush. They want to be isolationist? Let them.

Starmer trying to fluff up Trump is going to end just as badly. Humiliating? Only if you let it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

And if anyone thinks Tate is going to abide by his promise to go back to Romania, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Now is the time for the EU to unite, to have Romania’s back. Clearly they didn’t and clearly they won’t.

Very dangerous times we live in. President Xi must be creaming his pants.

I do think that Trump's trade war and associated isolationist acts should actually be viewed as an opportunity for Europe and some others like Canada, South Korea, etc. I think this is most especially true in military sense, as if Europe can not only have a strong defence, if it does so through European military companies, not US ones, then the US has very little influence over how Europe uses that kit, plus any US wars that have no real benefit to Europe are much easier to stay out of.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==

I don't think there's much saying that hasn't already been said, but what has particularly angered me about today's events (and I suppose also yesterday with the free speech jibe at Starmer) is how Vance thinks he has a right to treat heads of state/government like that.

Trump has the "right" to do that, though it is still disgusting - but the point of the vice president is that they have no power or authority, they're just there as a reserve. Zelenskyy is higher up in the order of precedence.

We think a lot of Musk and Trump eventually falling out due to ego's clashing, but what's overlooked, is Vance is very arrogant too and, while in tune with Trump at the moment, I wouldn't rule out them falling out either if Vance picks a fight with the wrong person. Vance would do well to remember what happened to Trump's last VP.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Have not seen much mention of the GOP budget blueprint passing - reckon the Trump Gaza video was released as a distraction to that.

Apparently medicaid won't be touched but unsure where else they'll find the money.

 

[ainsworth74]

Whilst there is obviously overlap I think it would be best if we kept the discussion that relates the Trump - Zelenskyy meeting this afternoon to the Ukraine thread to try and avoid duplication:

Russia invades Ukraine

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #49 originally in this thread. Judging from what I'm seeing on the various accounts I follow about this, tonight is going to be a long night for Ukrainians.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Cloud Strife]

Apparently medicaid won't be touched but unsure where else they'll find the money.

There are reports that the Republican leadership are trying to stop their elected representatives from holding town hall events, as they've been getting slaughtered at them by their own electorate. There's already plenty of talk of how jobs are getting lost in 'red' states, and that Trump seems hell bent on slapping tariffs on things like potash imports, which are badly needed by rural farmers. The combination of job cuts and food price rises in red states will be brutal during the midterms, especially once moderate Republican voters see just how badly they've been screwed by Trump.

 

[najaB]

There are reports that the Republican leadership are trying to stop their elected representatives from holding town hall events, as they've been getting slaughtered at them by their own electorate.

Which will more damage - showing up and getting embarrassed or being seen as no better than "the elites" that they railed against for so long?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Which will more damage - showing up and getting embarrassed or being seen as no better than "the elites" that they railed against for so long?

I think they, probably quite correctly, realise that there's a significant part of the Republican electorate that is willing to stomach absolutely anything. They can be slapped, spat on, they can have their welfare slashed and their jobs lost, but the need to "own the libs" is more important than their personal welfare. They can and will justify ending town hall events by making up some rubbish about personal security, and their electorate will mostly swallow it as long as "the libs are threatening us" is mentioned.

 

[DelW]

Similarly, it would be interesting to know what the MAGA faithful made of yesterday's performance at the White House. Does their enjoyment of watching Trump and Vance humiliate European leaders blind them to the wider picture? Or are they coming to realise that they've elected a Putin puppet to the Presidency, and that, far from "mak[ing] America great again", they are now dancing to the Kremlin's tune and doing Russia's bidding? The realisation may be painful when it finally dawns on them.

 

[Loppylugs]

T.Rump would do well to remember that American XL Bullies are banned when he visits this country, (perhaps we can put him down), there are also a lot of Ukrainian refugees to "welcome" him. His behaviour was appalling, befitting of a spoilt brat.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Similarly, it would be interesting to know what the MAGA faithful made of yesterday's performance at the White House.

They are absolutely in delight. They're crowing all over the internet about how great Trump is, how Europe can essentially go do one, and all the rest of it. It's clear that they have absolutely no problem with abandoning Ukraine and Europe, and that they have no problem with close and warm relations with Russia regardless of what Russia is doing to Ukraine.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Similarly, it would be interesting to know what the MAGA faithful made of yesterday's performance at the White House. Does their enjoyment of watching Trump and Vance humiliate European leaders blind them to the wider picture? Or are they coming to realise that they've elected a Putin puppet to the Presidency, and that, far from "mak[ing] America great again", they are now dancing to the Kremlin's tune and doing Russia's bidding? The realisation may be painful when it finally dawns on them.

Trumps only interested in his ratings to boost his ego and Vance played him a nice card. US have been inward looking in the past so this isn't unusual.

 

[dgl]

Thing is Europe will do one and stop buying American goods, thing is the reverse won't happen as rich Americans have gotten used to better quality products from Europe and won't want to give them up, could be a win-win situation for European manufacturers, we buy more from them and export orders to the US don't change all that much.

Oh and I wish someone would go up to trumps golf course and change the signs to "The Heroes Of Ukraine International Golf Course", come on Scottish government do something your electorate would be fully behind!

 

[brad465]

Tomorrow (or Wednesday morning GMT) is the state of the union address. Make sure you go to bed expecting to wake up to a s***storm in the news (even more so than normal).

 

[DM352]

We may get tariffs tomorrow in Canada (and in Mexico) which may time near the address. Though our trade will be hit I have never seen Canada be so patriotic of late. I am hoping for stronger EU/UK and asia trade ties in the future as we have a lot of resources.

Related, some grocery stores have put our flags on the shelf to help buy Canadian.

 

[dgl]

Trump is literally going around the world and telling people "don't buy American", I bet American businesses are loving him. I wonder if Trump might not be the master businessman some people thought he was.

Also, made in America. Temu quality Waitrose prices!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wonder if Trump might not be the master businessman some people thought he was.

I blame The Apprentice for everything. The “master businessman” Trump would have made more money if he’d put his daddy’s money in a Dow Jones tracker and gone on holiday for 50 years. He’s the only man in the history of everything to go bankrupt running a casino!

See also Alan “em@iler” Sugar.

They're crowing all over the internet about how great Trump is, how Europe can essentially go do one, and all the rest of it.

As I’ve said elsewhere, they should be taken at their word and they should be evicted from all military installations in the UK. At this stage, we should really be treating Trump as an enemy combatant.

 

[Yew]

As I’ve said elsewhere, they should be taken at their word and they should be evicted from all military installations in the UK. At this stage, we should really be treating Trump as an enemy combatant.

That seems incredibly drastic, we still have significant mutual security interests.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That seems incredibly drastic, we still have significant mutual security interests.

Do we?

Trump has said he doesn’t care about European security. We should take him at his word. We’re not special. He’ll drop us the second we’re not useful to him.

 

[dangie]

I feel that Trump stopping all military aid to Ukraine, he is banking everything on both Ukraine and Europe going cap in hand to him, getting everything (plus more) he’s been asking for. I’m sure he’s treating the Presidency purely as a business.

 

[Harpo]

I’m sure he’s treating the Presidency purely as a business.

Yes. Everything’s about ‘deals’, albeit with a gun to the head.

 

[Cloud Strife]

That seems incredibly drastic, we still have significant mutual security interests.

It is very drastic, but I think they also need a sharp shock to come to their senses. Cutting them off from intelligence gathering (especially that absolutely crucial station in Ayios Nikolaos) would be a massive shock, and Trump himself would likely very quickly be told by the American military top brass that he either has to change course or else. I'd also expect the big defence contractors to also step in and explain to him that there is a large and substantial amount of money associated with defence contracting, and that they won't accept his actions.

Having said that, maybe we won't have to do anything. These tariffs are going to cause a huge amount of pain for American consumers, and they will almost certainly cause inflation to spike massively.

 

[RT4038]

Yes. Everything’s about ‘deals’, albeit with a gun to the head.

The best kind of deals, usually!

 

[dgl]

I blame The Apprentice for everything. The “master businessman” Trump would have made more money if he’d put his daddy’s money in a Dow Jones tracker and gone on holiday for 50 years. He’s the only man in the history of everything to go bankrupt running a casino!

See also Alan “em@iler” Sugar.


As I’ve said elsewhere, they should be taken at their word and they should be evicted from all military installations in the UK. At this stage, we should really be treating Trump as an enemy combatant.

At least Alan did not start with loads of cash and is a real self made millionaire.
His buying a football club didn't help as whilst it was a profitable venture for him it took his mind off Amstrad, plus having to recall the Amstrad PC2 machines because of dodgy hard drives (that wasn't their fault) didn't help.

 

[edwin_m]

I blame The Apprentice for everything.

Maybe not the programme itself, except in the way it made Trump into a household name in the States and enabled his political ambitions. But the attitude behind it, that if someone wins someone else has to lose and the way to succeed is to fire lots of people, isn't the way to run most businesses or countries.

It is very drastic, but I think they also need a sharp shock to come to their senses. Cutting them off from intelligence gathering (especially that absolutely crucial station in Ayios Nikolaos) would be a massive shock, and Trump himself would likely very quickly be told by the American military top brass that he either has to change course or else. I'd also expect the big defence contractors to also step in and explain to him that there is a large and substantial amount of money associated with defence contracting, and that they won't accept his actions.

Having said that, maybe we won't have to do anything. These tariffs are going to cause a huge amount of pain for American consumers, and they will almost certainly cause inflation to spike massively.

Trump has said he doesn’t care about European security. We should take him at his word. We’re not special. He’ll drop us the second we’re not useful to him.

I suggest that would be endangering our own security. The people on the ground in US intelligence gathering will be very aware of what they are guarding against, and absent a direct order to change will carry on what they are doing now and hope to stay "under the radar" (pun intended). Drawing attention to those facilities risks just such an order being issued.

Doug Ford of Ontario has threatened to cut off energy supplied to the US. Perhaps a metaphorical warning shot would be to shut down the power lines for an hour or two and see what goes black. I also saw a suggestion somewhere that Europe could start sourcing LNG from Canada instead of the US, which might be a good counter to tariffs if the logistics of terminals and shipping makes it possible.

 

[Gloster]

It is very drastic, but I think they also need a sharp shock to come to their senses. Cutting them off from intelligence gathering (especially that absolutely crucial station in Ayios Nikolaos) would be a massive shock, and Trump himself would likely very quickly be told by the American military top brass that he either has to change course or else. I'd also expect the big defence contractors to also step in and explain to him that there is a large and substantial amount of money associated with defence contracting, and that they won't accept his actions.

Having said that, maybe we won't have to do anything. These tariffs are going to cause a huge amount of pain for American consumers, and they will almost certainly cause inflation to spike massively.

I am afraid that Trump’s reaction to that would be to change the top brass to ones that will bend to his will. I have seen reports in the media that the word has gone out from the top to cut back on countermeasures, intelligence work and the like against Russia, while still treating China and Iran as top targets. (I think that is what I read, but I only skimmed the items.)

 

[Cloud Strife]

Doug Ford of Ontario has threatened to cut off energy supplied to the US. Perhaps a metaphorical warning shot would be to shut down the power lines for an hour or two and see what goes black. I also saw a suggestion somewhere that Europe could start sourcing LNG from Canada instead of the US, which might be a good counter to tariffs if the logistics of terminals and shipping makes it possible.

If Canada treated it as a project of national importance, completing the new LNG terminal with substantial capacity in British Columbia and transforming the Saint John LNG terminal into an export-orientated terminal makes sense. The problem Canada has is a lack of pipeline capacity, and eastern Canada doesn't have the resources to really provide everything needed to Europe. But certainly, it can be done, and it would place Trump under a massive amount of pressure domestically. For all the talk of "drill baby drill", you still need customers, and Canada becoming the favoured partner of European countries for gas would be a massive problem for America.

I am afraid that Trump’s reaction to that would be to change the top brass to ones that will bend to his will. I have seen reports in the media that the word has gone out from the top to cut back on countermeasures, intelligence work and the like against Russia, while still treating China and Iran as top targets. (I think that is what I read, but I only skimmed the items.)

I do wonder just how much power Trump would be able to wield in this scenario. Changing the very top men and women is easily done as these are political appointments, but I wouldn't underestimate just how much influence the lower ranked generals have.

Having said that, I expect that his order will be ignored in respect to Russia anyway. The deep state that he always rants about is not going to change their ways of doing things for a short term president, they'll just cover up their activities in the way that the Americans have always been doing.

 

[edwin_m]

From the Ukraine thread:

I think a trade war is inevitable. We must prepare for that. The instant that Trump announces tariffs on the E.U., they should announce that imports from the U.S.A. will be subject to embargo and that U.S.A. aircraft and ships or aircraft and ships carrying goods from the U.S.A. will be subject to sanctions.

That and the inevitable retaliation would end up destroying all trans-Atlantic trade and communication.

The way this stops is through American public opinion. There are a lot of citizens who either didn't vote for Trump or did so and are starting to regret it. If enough of Trump's supporters turn against him then his hold over Congress evaporates (threatening to endorse a rival at a primary is no longer a threat if that endorsement is actually damaging). Once a few Republicans are free to do so, voting down of measures or even impeachment starts to become possible. There are also individual states that are very much going to resist. Alienating these groups doesn't help Europe's cause. Instead, measures should be targeted at those people and groups best able to influence or stop Trump. This may include oligarchs, although I suspect the democratic route is more effective, at least for now.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The way this stops is through American public opinion. There are a lot of citizens who either didn't vote for Trump or did so and are starting to regret it.

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, a certain Austrian politician didn't give his population the opportunity to act on their regret.

Given the Supreme Court's composition, I fear that the only thing that stops Trump is cholesterol.