GPS-based fare calculation and split ticketing?

[TheManOnThe172]

DfT are reported to be#looking to let a contract for a ticketing trial to run on EMR:

"Unlike the previous rollout of pay as you go, these trials will use GPS based technology. This will track your location on your train journey, ensuring you pay the best fare for the journey you take".

Best for who?

With anything like the current fares system, this doesn't look like it would deliver the "best fare" for anyone currently using split ticketing. Is that the real motivation behind this move, or just a happy (for DfT) byproduct?

 

[nwales58]

It is a direction many places are going, but with per-kilometre charging (e.g. OVpay, eezy.nrw) or zonal fare systems.

So would work for shorter distance simplified fares, such as existing PAYG areas, I would assume that is the intention.

In general, yes, it would be unattractive in the chaos-wonderland of GB rail fares.

 

[jthjth]

DfT are reported to be looking to let a contract for a ticketing trial to run on EMR: "Unlike the previous rollout of pay as you go, these trials will use GPS based technology. This will track your location on your train journey, ensuring you pay the best fare for the journey you take".

Best for who?

With anything like the current fares system, this doesn't look like it would deliver the "best fare" for anyone currently using split ticketing. Is that the real motivation behind this move, or just a happy (for DfT) byproduct?

Sounds like they want to use the same technology as Scotrail’s Tap and Pay..

 

[MrJeeves]

Sounds like they want to use the same technology as Scotrail’s Tap and Pay..

And similar to GTR's keyGo and SWR's Tap2Go. All run by iBlocks, likely all through the same journey calculation system too.

 

[jthjth]

And similar to GTR's keyGo and SWR's Tap2Go. All run by iBlocks, likely all through the same journey calculation system too.

The existing Scotrail system doesn’t support Advance tickets. That would be less than ideal for EMR’s longer distance services. Perhaps the trial might be limited to the regional services. Otherwise just starting and stopping, say, a Leicester to St Pancras trip on an app with retrospective charging might lead to bill shock.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Er.... Fairtiq plus competitors are best viewed as optional services within a broader ticketing platform, eg. the TOCs own one, GBR (in future), .

The GPS approach is essentially a cheaper option that putting validators on all stations (remember when SWT had to do this, and did, as a franchise obligation?)

But Advance fares etc. would be displayed/validated via the platform, ie. the conductor checks that your ticket is valid for that train.

 

[jthjth]

Er.... Fairtiq plus competitors are best viewed as optional services within a broader ticketing platform, eg. the TOCs own one, GBR (in future), .

The GPS approach is essentially a cheaper option that putting validators on all stations (remember when SWT had to do this, and did, as a franchise obligation?)

But Advance fares etc. would be displayed/validated via the platform, ie. the conductor checks that your ticket is valid for that train.

Depends. Some operators are offering Advances almost up to the time of departure. Eg LNER. If the LNER system spreads to EMR I’d like to think that any system that claims to find the best fare would encompass those tickets.

 

[talldave]

DfT are reported to be looking to let a contract for a ticketing trial to run on EMR: "Unlike the previous rollout of pay as you go, these trials will use GPS based technology. This will track your location on your train journey, ensuring you pay the best fare for the journey you take".

Best for who?

With anything like the current fares system, this doesn't look like it would deliver the "best fare" for anyone currently using split ticketing. Is that the real motivation behind this move, or just a happy (for DfT) byproduct?

Sounds like a tempting opportunity for an app that fakes your GPS position.

It would be better if the industry spent some time resolving the mess it makes of current technology (eg ITSO) before blundering ahead and making an unmitigated disaster of something it understands even less.

 

[sor]

Sounds like a tempting opportunity for an app that fakes your GPS position.

It would be better if the industry spent some time resolving the mess it makes of current technology (eg ITSO) before blundering ahead and making an unmitigated disaster of something it understands even less.

Wouldn't that be mitigated by checking if the phone is rooted, similar to the way banking apps do. Even harder still on iPhone of course.

I do agree though - get e-tickets and ITSO rolled out nationwide before looking at bells and whistles such as this.

 

[jthjth]

Based on my experience of using the Scotrail app I’m not so concerned about faking the GPS position. That app uses GPS to provide a menu of stations. You have to confirm you are getting on/off there. Faking your position and choosing a different station isn’t really any different to buying the wrong ticket for the purposes of fraud by any other method. You’d eventually get caught out by ticket inspector or gate line scans, as do existing fare evaders. No system is perfect, just needs to be good enough.

 

[MrJeeves]

Wouldn't that be mitigated by checking if the phone is rooted, similar to the way banking apps do.

Which is similarly easily worked around, given all my smartphones are rooted and happily run my banking apps!

 

[talldave]

Which is similarly easily worked around, given all my smartphones are rooted and happily run my banking apps!

Indeed, I'm amazed at the trust people place in mobiles generally. They're about as secure/confidential as a chocolate teapot. Using them for encrypted Telegram communication is about the only secure thing you can do with them.

 

[vuzzeho]

According to Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/share/BAQVFQ4m6w

Passengers across Yorkshire and East Midlands can now take part in innovative digital ticketing trials that are delivering simpler, more flexible travel.

4000 places available. I am very interested to see how this goes. Obviously, there is the question of privacy, as well as the question of accuracy, and how it's actually implemented. Presumably app-based, but things like battery life need to be taken into account, as well as different operators (though, that'll be less of a problem soon enough). It might make delay repay quicker, or even instant (not charging you if it detects the train was delayed by a while?). Either way, wish I could take part, but I live in London.

If anyone's feeling brave:
EMR sign up: https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co....F80v7CEefFKejL7jm9_aem_v2A-IJEmgtq1NRLeqQh13g
Northern sign up: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/t...IlkH1Xl4lV2kB3SKtM_aem_y9aIaJEAbd55UdH14xnKxA