MML Electrification: progress updates

[YorkshireBear]

Makes me wonder why, supposing the pegs in the ground refer to electrification, they’d bother doing this work & submitting seemingly-relevant planning applications if then the line is going to be electrified. Would seem a waste of money and manhours to me.

Assuming it's a typo for isnt going to be electrified.

Unfortunately you can't predict these things. What is it Roger Fords 1st law says, don't assume railways are rational organisations. Especially in the current economic and political climate!

The York 3rd line project was 'paused' while site cabins for a big blockade were being delivered, so close to the blockade that LNER couldn't reinstate their timetable. If you go through York now you can just see abandoned OLE stanchions which were laid out ready as part of the blockade. It's things like that that make me nervous.

 

[QSK19]

Assuming it's a typo for isnt going to be electrified.

Unfortunately you can't predict these things. What is it Roger Fords 1st law says, don't assume railways are rational organisations. Especially in the current economic and political climate!

The York 3rd line project was 'paused' while site cabins for a big blockade were being delivered, so close to the blockade that LNER couldn't reinstate their timetable. If you go through York now you can just see abandoned OLE stanchions which were laid out ready as part of the blockade. It's things like that that make me nervous.

Correct, I did indeed mean “isn’t”. Original post now edited.

I’ve learned from previous MML/EMR disappointment not to take anything for granted until spades are in the ground!

 

[Bald Rick]

Makes me wonder why, supposing the pegs in the ground refer to electrification, they’d bother doing this work & submitting seemingly-relevant planning applications if then the line isn’t going to be electrified. Would seem a waste of money and manhours to me.

Evidently funding hss been authorised for detailed design and development, which will include setting out, ground investigations, gainging relevant consents, etc. On a very different scale, but think about how much work was done on HS2 before it was actually authorised in early 2020.

 

[John R]

Assuming it's a typo for isnt going to be electrified.

Unfortunately you can't predict these things. What is it Roger Fords 1st law says, don't assume railways are rational organisations. Especially in the current economic and political climate!

The York 3rd line project was 'paused' while site cabins for a big blockade were being delivered, so close to the blockade that LNER couldn't reinstate their timetable. If you go through York now you can just see abandoned OLE stanchions which were laid out ready as part of the blockade. It's things like that that make me nervous.

I’d say it wasn’t the railway that wasn’t rational, but the DfT which pulled the plug at the very last minute.

 

[londonmidland]

Can’t say for sure how recently this was done, however on the approach to Leicester from the south, I noticed there had been some disturbed ground work (mud holes) within the grass cutting.

Not sure if the UDS is actually getting wired, however it looks like this location will be receiving portals.

 

[Yindee8191]

Can’t say for sure how recently this was done, however on the approach to Leicester from the south, I noticed there had been some disturbed ground work (mud holes) within the grass cutting.

Not sure if the UDS is actually getting wired, however it looks like this location will be receiving portals.

The UDS will certainly be wired, no doubt about that. The slows were wired all the way from Bedford to Wellingborough despite never being used by passenger services, so there's no way they'll leave out slows coming into Leicester. I suspect it'll be portals all the way through, considering the plans to four-track Wigston to Leicester.

 

[Nottingham59]

I suspect it'll be portals all the way through, considering the plans to four-track Wigston to Leicester.

Let's just hope some "value engineer" doesn't save a few quid on portal metalwork, by putting the piles where the fourth track would have to go.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Let's just hope some "value engineer" doesn't save a few quid on portal metalwork, by putting the piles where the fourth track would have to go.

That is my fond hope too. It really would be ludicrously short-sighted.

 

[59CosG95]

Not the world's best photo, but pegs have started going in between Long Eaton & Spondon.



Surveying for RS4 & RS5 seems to be starting up in earnest!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not the world's best photo, but pegs have started going in between Long Eaton & Spondon.

Surveying for RS4 & RS5 seems to be starting up in earnest!

Excellent. I would have been happy if just getting to Trent Jcts. So beyond is definitely good news.

 

[londonmidland]

I asked Network Rail what the wooden pegs in the ground are for and this was their response:

Thank you for contacting us.

This is part of early investigative work as part of our plans to electrify the Midland Main Line in this area.

Electrification is complete as far north as Wigston, Leicestershire on the Midland Main Line.

We are working with Department for Transport and our suppliers on the programme to electrify north of Wigston but we are unable to confirm any future plans at this stage.

Once funding is confirmed and work is planned we will arrange public engagement events to share our plans with those who live locally.

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not the world's best photo, but pegs have started going in between Long Eaton & Spondon.

Surveying for RS4 & RS5 seems to be starting up in earnest!

As a reminder:

RS2 – Wigston South to Syston
RS3 – Syston to Trent Junction.
RS4 – Sheet Stores Junction to Chaddesden Sidings (Derby)
RS5 – Trent Junction to Nottingham.
RS6 – Chaddesden Sidings to Toadmoor Tunnel.
RS7 – Toadmoor Tunnel to London Road.
RS8 – London Road to Sheffield North.

 

[Edvid]

Here's another Simon Skinner presentation to the PWI (dated 21 January 2025) - The complexities of train testing (PDF link). It relates to K2W testing, like the previous presentation did.

 

[Western Sunset]

As a reminder:

RS2 – Wigston South to Syston
RS3 – Syston to Trent Junction.
RS4 – Sheet Stores Junction to Chaddesden Sidings (Derby)
RS5 – Trent Junction to Nottingham.
RS6 – Chaddesden Sidings to Toadmoor Tunnel.
RS7 – Toadmoor Tunnel to London Road.
RS8 – London Road to Sheffield North.

Sorry, but where is "London Road", please?

 

[Nottingham59]

Sorry, but where is "London Road", please?

A61, just a mile south of Sheffield Station

 

[Western Sunset]

A61, just a mile south of Sheffield Station

Cheers, thanks. There's a London Road in Leicester, Nottm and Derby, but none of those seemed to fit...

 

[WAO]

RS8 is presumably the complex installation around the Midland Station, perhaps including remodelling etc.

WAO

 

[Killingworth]

RS8 is presumably the complex installation around the Midland Station, perhaps including remodelling etc.

WAO

Not much perhaps in that

 

[Western Sunset]

Re-Sheff Mid. Was that separate little bit where HS2 would've originally come in?

 

[edwin_m]

Re-Sheff Mid. Was that separate little bit where HS2 would've originally come in?

HS2 would have joined the Erewash Valley so would have had to electrify the MML from Clay Cross (or the crossovers between there and Chesterfield) to Sheffield.

 

[InTheEastMids]

As a reminder:

RS2 – Wigston South to Syston
RS3 – Syston to Trent Junction.
RS4 – Sheet Stores Junction to Chaddesden Sidings (Derby)
RS5 – Trent Junction to Nottingham.
RS6 – Chaddesden Sidings to Toadmoor Tunnel.
RS7 – Toadmoor Tunnel to London Road.
RS8 – London Road to Sheffield North.

Don't think anybody has reported any activity East of Trent towards Nottingham (RS5) yet here?
And I think for RS4, it's - so far - one report of markers on the ground, a bit West of Long Eaton station by the looks of the allotments visible in the photo.

Network Rail have also applied for prior approval to extend the parapets of the Kegworth Road bridge at Ratcliffe on Soar. This is the bridge immediately south of the A453. The reference is 25/00304/GDO18

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Don't think anybody has reported any activity East of Trent towards Nottingham (RS5) yet here?
And I think for RS4, it's - so far - one report of markers on the ground, a bit West of Long Eaton station by the looks of the allotments visible in the photo.

There has been some about 2 pages back!

Recent addition: pegs have started creeping up along the Trent East to Trent West curve (ELR: TES) along with the Trent South Jn to Nottingham line (TSN1). I only saw the Up side from the train I was on... but encouraging signs nonetheless!

 

[Teapot42]

As a reminder:
...
RS7 – Toadmoor Tunnel to London Road.

I know it's a long way off, but has any decision been made on what the plan is around Dronfield? From what I've read in the past there are clearance issues which will make that part challenging.

 

[InTheEastMids]

There has been some about 2 pages back!

Thanks. I'd interpreted these as being curves within the Trent/Sheet Stores complex of junctions, and I had also understood RS3 Stage to be from Syston to Trent an Sheet Stores Junctions, so I have been assuming that includes to Trent East and Sheet Stores, plus whatever overruns are required.

This is why it was so interesting that things were spotted beyond Sheet Stores junction towards Derby, as it's well outside the scope of the Syston to Trent/SSJ stage.
So am curious if anything has been spotted closer to Nottingham than Trent East Junction.

I know it's a long way off, but has any decision been made on what the plan is around Dronfield? From what I've read in the past there are clearance issues which will make that part challenging.

I'd also be interested to know what will happen arround Draycott and Borrrowash. The railway seems quite prone to flooding here, and there are bridges over the railway that might have clearance issues.
So I am thinking that lowering the trackbed is a non-starter, so will there be bridge raising/replacements? More generally, will MMLE have any budget to address flooding of the railway from the River Derwent?

 

[Teapot42]

I'd also be interested to know what will happen arround Draycott and Borrrowash. The railway seems quite prone to flooding here, and there are bridges over the railway that might have clearance issues.
So I am thinking that lowering the trackbed is a non-starter, so will there be bridge raising/replacements? More generally, will MMLE have any budget to address flooding of the railway from the River Derwent?

I think they might have to lower the trackbed at Dronfield, as the overbridge is Grade II listed so I'd imagine even raising it might pose challenges, and no chance of replacing it. However, as it's next to the station that will also mean rebuilding the station to lower the platforms.

The only other option I can think of would be to electrify via Barrow Hill to Sheffield and maybe convert the Dronfield line in to a Supertram extension - assuming that is the clearances for the trams are lower than for trains.

 

[CdBrux]

I think they might have to lower the trackbed at Dronfield, as the overbridge is Grade II listed so I'd imagine even raising it might pose challenges, and no chance of replacing it. However, as it's next to the station that will also mean rebuilding the station to lower the platforms.

The only other option I can think of would be to electrify via Barrow Hill to Sheffield and maybe convert the Dronfield line in to a Supertram extension - assuming that is the clearances for the trams are lower than for trains.

For a short distance batteries look like a very good option

 

[Killingworth]

I think they might have to lower the trackbed at Dronfield, as the overbridge is Grade II listed so I'd imagine even raising it might pose challenges, and no chance of replacing it. However, as it's next to the station that will also mean rebuilding the station to lower the platforms.

The only other option I can think of would be to electrify via Barrow Hill to Sheffield and maybe convert the Dronfield line in to a Supertram extension - assuming that is the clearances for the trams are lower than for trains.

Relocating Dronfield station further to the south may also have been considered.

 

[Nottingham59]

I think they might have to lower the trackbed at Dronfield,

Do we have any indication of how much the track would have to be lowered by?

 

[edwin_m]

Dronfield station is in the bottom of a narrow valley with the River Drone going under the railway twice, just off both ends of the station, so I don't think a track lower is on the cards. As well as it reportedly being listed, I think raising the bridge would result in an unacceptable gradient on the road. So moving the station south might well be the best plan.

 

[Teapot42]

Relocating Dronfield station further to the south may also have been considered.

It can't move by more than a hundred metres or so I wouldn't have thought. There is a carpark south of the station, but beyond that access would be tricky. North would offer an easier move, beside the new Aldi. Not as convenient for the town, but it's not the best sited station anyway.

I've thought for a while that building a new station (possibly with a terminating bay) just off Bowshaw Roundabout could work well. There isn't really a park and ride in to Sheffield from the south, and no easy way to extend the tram, so having a Parkway station that also replaces the existing Dronfield station seems a good option. A decent town shuttle bus serving it could mitigate some of the lack of convenience of the location.

Do we have any indication of how much the track would have to be lowered by?

I don't know enough to even guess. You can get a good view of the bridge from Google Streetview, but without a train (or banana) for scale unfortunately.