GBR and Staff Travel

[Scotrail84]

I will generally ask on long distance services, because why not? I prefer the ambience, the seats are more comfortable and I’m generally just a first class kind of guy . I get free travel on LNER anyway, and have never had a TM say no - it’s just a matter of approaching them, introducing myself as a staff member and asking politely. Generally get the meal service too, although that’s down to the host.

Don't take this the wrong please as it's not intended to cause offence but I that is taking the mick a wee bit. It's one thing to ask for 1st class, but to scoff a buckshee meal and drinks too? Doesn't sit right with me at all. Like I say, I'm not intending to offend you at all, thats just my take on it.

 

[43066]

Don't take this the wrong please as it's not intended to cause offence but I that is taking the mick a wee bit. It's one thing to ask for 1st class, but to scoff a buckshee meal and drinks too? Doesn't sit right with me at all. Like I say, I'm not intending to offend you at all, thats just my take on it.

We have a reciprocal agreement where we can use boxes for first on LNER (often the guards don’t fill them in) and can pay an amount (£5 possibly - I can’t remember) which entitles us to the full catering service. Often the hosts wont hear of payment and simply provide the normal service as they would for any other first class passenger.

If I’m offered it for free - and to be clear I don’t expect it, nor do I approach the situation with any sense of entitlement - I don’t see how it’s “taking the mick” at all? It’s just people doing a favour for someone else who works in the same industry.

 

[LowLevel]

We have a reciprocal agreement where we can use boxes for first on LNER (often the guards don’t fill them in) and can pay an amount (£5 possibly - I can’t remember) which entitles us to the full catering service. Often the hosts wont hear of payment and simply provide the normal service as they would for any other first class passenger.

If I’m offered it for free - and to be clear I don’t expect it, nor do I approach the situation with any sense of entitlement - I don’t see how it’s “taking the mick” at all? It’s just people doing a favour for someone else who works in the same industry.

The LNER offer is something to be wary of. Their hosts don't work the same way as the EMR hosts and don't check tickets or establish any entitlement to the catering offer - that's all down to the train manager/revenue protection inspectors. I know of several staff who have ended up in hot water over first class entitlements or otherwise as the onus in the Rail Staff Travel T&Cs is placed on the facilities user to decline anything they're not entitled to and not all of the onboard crew on a given train are necessarily always on the same page.

 

[43066]

The LNER offer is something to be wary of. Their hosts don't work the same way as the EMR hosts and don't check tickets or establish any entitlement to the catering offer - that's all down to the train manager/revenue protection inspectors. I know of several staff who have ended up in hot water over first class entitlements or otherwise as the onus in the Rail Staff Travel T&Cs is placed on the facilities user to decline anything they're not entitled to and not all of the onboard crew on a given train are necessarily always on the same page.

Fair point. In my case I always tell them I’m staff, and in all cases the guard is also aware, as I’ve asked them beforehand if I can sit in first.

The vast majority of staff have no issue with this kind of thing in my experience - the key is just approaching the situation with politeness and knowing how to speak to people, which I realise is more than some people (including some staff members) can manage!

 

[Helvellyn]

We have a reciprocal agreement where we can use boxes for first on LNER (often the guards don’t fill them in) and can pay an amount (£5 possibly - I can’t remember) which entitles us to the full catering service. Often the hosts wont hear of payment and simply provide the normal service as they would for any other first class passenger.

If I’m offered it for free - and to be clear I don’t expect it, nor do I approach the situation with any sense of entitlement - I don’t see how it’s “taking the mick” at all? It’s just people doing a favour for someone else who works in the same industry.

I was told by an LNER staff member that there is now a micro website to buy the £5 catering voucher and it's now valid all day (used to be per train?). Hopefully they will put the web address in the next Staff Travel Restrictions guide in May.

 

[transportphoto]

We have a reciprocal agreement where we can use boxes for first on LNER (often the guards don’t fill them in)

Guards often don’t fill them in, doesn’t excuse the expectation placed on you by RSTL that you’ve filled it in before boarding.

 

[43066]

Guards often don’t fill them in, doesn’t excuse the expectation placed on you by RSTL that you’ve filled it in before boarding.

Not if I’ve asked the TM beforehand for permission to board - entirely down to their discretion - most are fine with it.

 

[Kite159]

Guards often don’t fill them in, doesn’t excuse the expectation placed on you by RSTL that you’ve filled it in before boarding.

Especially if they run into a hard line revenue inspector who follows the rules to the letter and not only dates a box they cross out another box.

 

[Falcon1200]

Generally get the meal service too, although that’s down to the host.

Whereas First Class pass holders are told unequivocally that taking any more than the bare minimum, ie hot and cold (non-alcoholic) drinks is a Travel Irregularity! As I don't want to lose my huge benefit I always make a point of advising the catering crew that I have a staff pass, and refusing anything more than those things, even if freely offered.

 

[irish_rail]

I honestly don’t find it bad enough to state anything like that. It’s just a seat with less padding, no more no less to me.

It's obviously not something I do personally.. .however, the 5 car 800s are noticeably worse in the regard of zero padding left in the seat bases, the 9 cars and 802s are not quite as bad. So when your faced with a pair of 5 car 800s to pass to London on , it's not a nice feeling, though of course I just grin and bare it!

 

[3RDGEN]

I too never ask to sit in first. I find it cringing to do personally. If I do sit in 1st it’s because I’m with my own TOC to which I am entitled but on any other with my dated BR boxes it’s because I’m paying the Weekend 1st upgrade. If then the guard refuses to take my offer of payment then that’s fine and I am totally discreet.

Spot on.

 

[Trainman40083]

When an employer provides a benefit to staff that has a cost to that employer, it is regarded for tax purposes as a "benefit in kind" and taxable as if the cost to the employer was part of the employee's salary. When the benefit is provided at a minimal or no cost to the employer ("de minimus") it is not regarded as a "benefit in kind" for tax purposes and so has no tax implications.

When I worked for BR before privatisation I paid no tax on my staff travel, since BR did not pay anyone for it. After privatisation I paid around £200 p.a. tax on it, because my private employer had to pay ATOC (as it was then) about £1000 p.a. for me to receive it.

If GBR ends up not paying anyone for the travel facilities it provides, the situation would revert to the one in BR days.

And then after retirement you paid a lump sum tax payment, and then had no future tax liability.... Well unless HMRC kept trying to include it as a benefit in kind.

 

[dk1]

Spot on.

Thank you.

 

[6Gman]

I too never ask to sit in first. I find it cringing to do personally. If I do sit in 1st it’s because I’m with my own TOC to which I am entitled but on any other with my dated BR boxes it’s because I’m paying the Weekend 1st upgrade. If then the guard refuses to take my offer of payment then that’s fine and I am totally discreet.

On one occasion, on a quiet Sunday, we were sitting in Standard on our retired passes when the TM - checking tickets - simply said "would you like to sit upfront" (i.e. in First Class). We accepted the invitation, basically for the better view! (It was a Pendolino)

Like @dk1 I would find it cringing to ask.

 

[dk1]

On one occasion, on a quiet Sunday, we were sitting in Standard on our retired passes when the TM - checking tickets - simply said "would you like to sit upfront" (i.e. in First Class). We accepted the invitation, basically for the better view! (It was a Pendolino)

Like @dk1 I would find it cringing to ask.

Absolutely this mate. I have also been told by a DB guard between Cologne & Munich to take myself into 1st class but would NEVER have asked to.

 

[duffield]

And then after retirement you paid a lump sum tax payment, and then had no future tax liability.... Well unless HMRC kept trying to include it as a benefit in kind.

Yes, I guess that was all sorted. My employer had a reputation for not arranging the the lump sum and that causing HMRC to keep taxing retirees, and as I couldn't make head or tail of the tax I paid in my retirement year, I had no idea if they'd done it. But five years have passed and I've had no grief from HMRC so I guess it's OK.
As an aside I was very impressed with how my PAYE just carried on smoothly after retirement, including adjusting my tax code automatically when the building society interest rates took me over the savings limit. I was expecting to have to do tax returns at some point, but it's all been fully automatic.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes, I guess that was all sorted. My employer had a reputation for not arranging the the lump sum and that causing HMRC to keep taxing retirees, and as I couldn't make head or tail of the tax I paid in my retirement year, I had no idea if they'd done it. But five years have passed and I've had no grief from HMRC so I guess it's OK.
As an aside I was very impressed with how my PAYE just carried on smoothly after retirement, including adjusting my tax code automatically when the building society interest rates took me over the savings limit. I was expecting to have to do tax returns at some point, but it's all been fully automatic.

I remember paying the lump sum (and the relevant benefit in kind figure)... Then the following year, HMRC , reverted to the original benefit figure. What they removed, they tried to put back. Soon they got it right.

 

[Haywain]

I once offered to pay a weekend upgrade on (what was then) VWC. The train manager asked where I was going, and on saying London replied “I’d better charge you, it will be a London TM taking over at Preston and they can be funny about this, if you were just going to Preston I wouldn’t have worried”. Given it was only something like £15 I wasn’t particularly bothered, indeed I’d offered and expected to pay.

I experienced the same thing in the opposite direction some years ago. Whilst I had no problem with paying it was a bit galling when the second guard expressed surprise that I'd paid for the upgrade, saying that he wouldn't have charged me!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2025 ==

I too never ask to sit in first. I find it cringing to do personally. If I do sit in 1st it’s because I’m with my own TOC to which I am entitled but on any other with my dated BR boxes it’s because I’m paying the Weekend 1st upgrade. If then the guard refuses to take my offer of payment then that’s fine and I am totally discreet.

I'm in agreement with that. It's the same as those staff who think that paying for a ticket is optional - I'd sooner buy one but plenty of people seem to think that they shouldn't.

 

[43066]

I'm in agreement with that. It's the same as those staff who think that paying for a ticket is optional - I'd sooner buy one but plenty of people seem to think that they shouldn't.

I’m sure most staff are fully aware of the seriousness of misuse of staff rail facilities, and are therefore generally more careful in these matters than the average - I know I am. Asking to sit in first, or to jump on for free, isn’t the same thing as believing “paying for a ticket is optional”. It’s just asking for discretion to be shown to do a favour, in full knowledge of the fact that it might not be. 99% of the time isn’t an issue, in my experience.

Keep in mind that - depending on operator - many staff today are reliant on reciprocal arrangements much less generous than those afforded to safeguarded staff.

 

[357]

I’m sure most staff are fully aware of the seriousness of misuse of staff rail facilities, and are therefore generally more careful in these matters than the average - I know I am. Asking to sit in first, or to jump on for free, isn’t the same thing as believing “paying for a ticket is optional”. It’s just asking for discretion to be shown to do a favour, in full knowledge of the fact that it might not be. 99% of the time isn’t an issue in my experience.

Keep in mind that - depending on operator - many staff are reliant on reciprocal arrangements much less generous than those afforded to safeguarded staff.

I think it's a similar sort of attitude to that shown in the British Railway Old School (BROS) Facebook group.

People who forget there are people now approaching retirement who have spent their entire career in the privatised railway are told by those with a special colour of PRIV that we don't know anything and are useless compared to their "professionalism".

I worked with tickets for about 7 years of my career and never made anyone write a date in a box - and certainly never made them cross out the next box. Then again, safeguarded staff show a completely different attitude to TOC staff when they want a free ride

 

[dk1]

I'm in agreement with that. It's the same as those staff who think that paying for a ticket is optional - I'd sooner buy one but plenty of people seem to think that they shouldn't.

If I hadn’t filled in a dated box and was travelling on other than a TUK operated service, I wouldn’t dream of boarding without a valid priv ticket unless no facilities were available to do so.

 

[Shark123]

Hey All

I know there are couple of posts on this already but they are quite old now and not many discuss on this recently.

As an NR employee, we currently pay 25% of a season ticket plus BiK tax. In practice, for those earning over £50k, this works out at close to 50% of the market cost of the season ticket, which feels like a more realistic way to look at it.

NR has also recently introduced a three-day-per-week office attendance policy (which I don’t have an issue with in principle). However, this effectively requires many of us to purchase full season tickets rather than the more flexible 8-days-in-28 option.

I’m aware that many of our TOC colleagues receive free travel on their own TOC, often including dependants (depending on the TOC). With GBR moving closer and reorganisation discussions already happening (for example with Southeastern and South Western), this feels increasingly relevant.

Ideally, my hope would be for free travel across GBR, similar to what existed under BR. If that isn’t feasible, then at the very least residential travel would be welcome. At worst, I hope any future arrangement isn’t less favourable than the current NR season ticket scheme (which I would completely understand would be a poor outcome for TOC colleagues). It has also been a long-standing frustration that NR staff don’t receive TOC passes at all, though that’s slightly beside the main point.

So far, there doesn’t seem to have been any communication on this - not in all-hands calls, through TUs, or elsewhere. I appreciate that GBR is still some way off legislatively, but I’m wondering whether there’s been any recent information, discussion, or even rumours (credible or otherwise). If anyone has heard anything via TUs or other channels, I’d be grateful for any insight.


Merry Christmas!!

`

 

[31160]

If the staff get back to BR style perks, would that also involve going back to BR style pay as well?

 

[The Planner]

Hey All

I know there are couple of posts on this already but they are quite old now and not many discuss on this recently.

As an NR employee, we currently pay 25% of a season ticket plus BiK tax. In practice, for those earning over £50k, this works out at close to 50% of the market cost of the season ticket, which feels like a more realistic way to look at it.

NR has also recently introduced a three-day-per-week office attendance policy (which I don’t have an issue with in principle). However, this effectively requires many of us to purchase full season tickets rather than the more flexible 8-days-in-28 option.

I’m aware that many of our TOC colleagues receive free travel on their own TOC, often including dependants (depending on the TOC). With GBR moving closer and reorganisation discussions already happening (for example with Southeastern and South Western), this feels increasingly relevant.

Ideally, my hope would be for free travel across GBR, similar to what existed under BR. If that isn’t feasible, then at the very least residential travel would be welcome. At worst, I hope any future arrangement isn’t less favourable than the current NR season ticket scheme (which I would completely understand would be a poor outcome for TOC colleagues). It has also been a long-standing frustration that NR staff don’t receive TOC passes at all, though that’s slightly beside the main point.

So far, there doesn’t seem to have been any communication on this - not in all-hands calls, through TUs, or elsewhere. I appreciate that GBR is still some way off legislatively, but I’m wondering whether there’s been any recent information, discussion, or even rumours (credible or otherwise). If anyone has heard anything via TUs or other channels, I’d be grateful for any insight.


Merry Christmas!!

`

I doubt we will get anything over and above what each organisation gets now. The three day a week policy is very loosely applied as well in my experience.

 

[Hairyspotter]

Logically there should be one pass for all staff that caters for leisure & duty travel and works as a gate pass, which is surely far simpler to issue and administer than the current arrangements.

Trains will run even if empty so I don't buy the concept of a cost being attached to a member of staff travelling on it.

As for perks, it's no different to retail employess getting discounts where they work or motor trade staff having access to cheaper cars, or airline staff having hotline/ID90 travel and I'm sure many other examples we could cite.

 

[Shark123]

Logically there should be one pass for all staff that caters for leisure & duty travel and works as a gate pass, which is surely far simpler to issue and administer than the current arrangements.

Trains will run even if empty so I don't buy the concept of a cost being attached to a member of staff travelling on it.

As for perks, it's no different to retail employess getting discounts where they work or motor trade staff having access to cheaper cars, or airline staff having hotline/ID90 travel and I'm sure many other examples we could cite.

Fair point! Though when has our industry made big decisions that were "logical"

 

[Wokingham]

Given that a certain (cough LNER cough) DfTO TOC refused to agree to free reciprocal travel with other DfTO TOCs to the point the whole deal was canned and decided to ‘just be sorted out as part of GBR’, I suspect that people will be sorely disappointed…

where can i read about this please

 

[Bald Rick]

So far, there doesn’t seem to have been any communication on this - not in all-hands calls, through TUs, or elsewhere. I appreciate that GBR is still some way off legislatively, but I’m wondering whether there’s been any recent information, discussion, or even rumours (credible or otherwise).

As far as I know, there’s been no discussion about it.

 

[Helvellyn]

Hey All

I know there are couple of posts on this already but they are quite old now and not many discuss on this recently.

As an NR employee, we currently pay 25% of a season ticket plus BiK tax. In practice, for those earning over £50k, this works out at close to 50% of the market cost of the season ticket, which feels like a more realistic way to look at it.

NR has also recently introduced a three-day-per-week office attendance policy (which I don’t have an issue with in principle). However, this effectively requires many of us to purchase full season tickets rather than the more flexible 8-days-in-28 option.

I’m aware that many of our TOC colleagues receive free travel on their own TOC, often including dependants (depending on the TOC). With GBR moving closer and reorganisation discussions already happening (for example with Southeastern and South Western), this feels increasingly relevant.

Ideally, my hope would be for free travel across GBR, similar to what existed under BR. If that isn’t feasible, then at the very least residential travel would be welcome. At worst, I hope any future arrangement isn’t less favourable than the current NR season ticket scheme (which I would completely understand would be a poor outcome for TOC colleagues). It has also been a long-standing frustration that NR staff don’t receive TOC passes at all, though that’s slightly beside the main point.

So far, there doesn’t seem to have been any communication on this - not in all-hands calls, through TUs, or elsewhere. I appreciate that GBR is still some way off legislatively, but I’m wondering whether there’s been any recent information, discussion, or even rumours (credible or otherwise). If anyone has heard anything via TUs or other channels, I’d be grateful for any insight.


Merry Christmas!!

`

You'd hope someone, somewhere, is looking at this and other things. If GBR is one organisation, but all the different T&Cs remain, it'll get very difficult to encourage people to move around the new organisation if there are big differences in T&Cs, service length has to restart, etc. I know that happens today but anyone making such moves would except the companies are completely different.

 

[Kite159]

It will probably pop up at the next pay talks, especially for those operators who had more unlimited company wide travel (ie the former Abellio/Transport UK).

I would imagine once GBR is complete, staff will get free travel on their 'operator' brand, plus a limited number of 2 day boxes for all other GBR operators, maybe increasing based on length of service. But who knows what the future holds