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Caught using freedom pass

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Haywain

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Furthermore, I have been struggling to find a graduate job since graduating in 2022 and due to the nature of my job, any prosecution will be detrimental to my job applications.
This is repetitive and struggles to make sense; you say "the nature of my job", but you haven't got a job. It would be easier to say something like, "Whilst I am seeking work, a conviction would be damaging to my job prospects".
 
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RoboJock8

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Should I obtain more up to date medical records to prove my mental health diagnosis ? I have one from 2018 but nothing newer.
 
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Pushpit

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Should I obtain more up to date medical records to prove my mental health diagnosis ? I have one from 2021 but nothing newer.
Some mental health conditions are difficult to treat, manage or resolve, so for those conditions a new set of medical reports in theory would not be needed. But I imagine a solicitor would encourage you to get a letter from your GP or other clinician with something more up to date. If you have a current prescription on renewal relating to the 2021 diagnosis then that paperwork would perhaps get around this.
 

RoboJock8

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Some mental health conditions are difficult to treat, manage or resolve, so for those conditions a new set of medical reports in theory would not be needed. But I imagine a solicitor would encourage you to get a letter from your GP or other clinician with something more up to date. If you have a current prescription on renewal relating to the 2021 diagnosis then that paperwork would perhaps get around this.
Hmm sounds like i would need them then. If I go to a GP is it easy to request them or do I need to explain this situation to them ?

Also for a railcard i just purchased one. I have an oyster but its just a random one i have and its not linked to my name. Tbh i have no idea whos name its on. Can i use that to link my railcard ?
 

Pushpit

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Hmm sounds like i would need them then. If I go to a GP is it easy to request them or do I need to explain this situation to them ?

Also for a railcard i just purchased one. I have an oyster but its just a random one i have and its not linked to my name. Tbh i have no idea whos name its on. Can i use that to link my railcard ?
GPs and their surgeries do write out a lot of letters to support their patients, most GPs see this as a necessary part of their job. There is usually a charge for writing a letter, around £40 would be fairly common. It is up to you what you disclose to the GP, so they may be OK just to give an updated general letter which could also be used for education or employment purposes. The other approach would be to explain the details of what has happened here and see if the doctor agrees that your actions were influenced by your health conditions - some doctors will readily write up a letter on that basis. But though this is a criminal matter, it is not the most serious offence, so other doctors may be more reluctant.

In between there are doctors who would side step this by saying "Johnny has a long history of the following medical problems: A, B and C. He has been on the following medication: D, E and F. These do have side effects, including potentially inhibiting decision making. Johnny tells me that as a result of the medication he has made some bad decisions recently, including one involving a potential prosecution by TfL". So it's factual but actually the doctor writing this would be sceptical to say the least.

The fact you have an Oyster and are linking it to a railcard is good, by all means mention it to TfL. Unfortunately in this scenario TfL will only give you a little credit for that, but it is still worth having. An adult Oyster is typically anonymous to begin with, but you can go online and get it linked to your email address. That's not required but it gives you more control on the card and if you lose your card you can transfer the money off that card to a replacement. You can also get the railcard linked to that Oyster - it will then only give an automatic discount if you are entitled to it, typically off peak, so that's a good system here. All you do is take that Oyster and your railcard to a Tube station when it's quiet and politely ask any TfL staff member to help you to connect the card. You may need a post code, come up with a password for future maintenance, and perhaps some ID if the railcard does not have a photocard.
 

Titfield

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The oyster card has to be linked to the railcard for you to get the discount on the oyster fare. The oyster card has to be registered first. As you do not seem to know the origin of the oyster card you may find that it has been registered by someone else already. The link below to the TfL website will help.


You may find it easier to get a letter from your GP if you explain the situation but equally they may be inclined to say that your behaviour is not linked to the event which took place.
 

SuspectUsual

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In between there are doctors who would side step this by saying "Johnny has a long history of the following medical problems: A, B and C. He has been on the following medication: D, E and F. These do have side effects, including potentially inhibiting decision making. Johnny tells me that as a result of the medication he has made some bad decisions recently, including one involving a potential prosecution by TfL". So it's factual but actually the doctor writing this would be sceptical to say the least.

Except the OP advised he's not currently on any medication, so unless the side effects last a very long time this isn't going to help
 

RoboJock8

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Except the OP advised he's not currently on any medication, so unless the side effects last a very long time this isn't going to help
its more to prove that i have a mental health condition to corroborate why I am unemployed. And then my unemployment was why I am experiencing financial issues.
 
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John R

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its more to prove that i have a mental health condition to corroborate why I am unemployed. And then my unemployment was why I am experiencing financial issues.
The problem with that is that simply because you are experiencing financial issues (for whatever reason) is not a valid reason to let you off. If that was the case then the floodgates would be open to people claiming that they couldn't afford to pay the fare.
 

SuspectUsual

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its more to prove that i have a mental health condition to corroborate why I am unemployed. And then my unemployment was why I am experiencing financial issues.

I also have my resignation letter which states I left due to mental health so maybe i shuld attach that ?

"Financial reasons" isn't going to cut any ice with them, I'm afraid

If you wanted to use your mental health as mitigation, it would have to be because your condition affected your judgement and contributed to the poor decision you made.

Merely being skint - for whatever reason - isn't a valid reason
 

jumble

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To revisit the TfL prosecution policy, they say they will take into account mental health conditions or disabilities when they make a decision as to whether to prosecute *in the public interest*. In practice, what they are looking for is:

a) a compelling reason why it wouldn't be in the interest of justice to prosecute. An example might be someone sectioned under the Mental Health Act for psychosis and destructive behaviour who was on a supervised day trip but who didn't pay for their journey, or perhaps a refugee in temporary accommodation with profound PTSD for whom a conviction does not feel a proportionate disposal, or
b) evidence that the mental health condition or disability has fundamentally impacted the choice to fare evade, for example an impulse control disorder like kleptomania, or a severe learning disability meaning the passenger had a diminished responsibility for what happened.

With great respect, having been on antidepressants in the past - something about a quarter of the working age population is covered by that - is unlikely to move the needle here.

A solicitor will cost something like £750-1000 and can frame your mitigation better, but if you don't have much to go on to start with...be advised they can't work miracles.

The vast majority of people are convicted, and we have seen recently that only people using solicitors have managed to end up with a warning.

Some actual % given here
In Period 1 – Period 8 of the 2024/25 financial year (1 January – 7 December 2024), 48% of cases submitted following investigations were prosecuted of which 5% were subsequently withdrawn from court.

I find the below in the magistrates court briefing pdf most odd
TfL do not prosecute anyone under the age of 18 or over the age of 60 for fare evasion.
Penalty
Fares are issued for all forms of fare evasion to these age groups.

and most amusingly for a 2025 FOI

In addition to fare evasion, TfL will also consider a private prosecution for the following offences: -
Face covering offences are brought under The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face
Coverings) (England) Regulations 2021.
 

AlterEgo

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"Financial reasons" isn't going to cut any ice with them, I'm afraid

If you wanted to use your mental health as mitigation, it would have to be because your condition affected your judgement and contributed to the poor decision you made.
or that the condition is so severe and the consequences of conviction would be so disproportionate as to make prosecution not in the interests of justice.
 

RoboJock8

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So I just received this letter. My understanding is this is the generic letter they send and obviously I respond.

You know the second image. Do I have to get that scanned and send in those details ? Or can I just fill those details in and provide it as part of my email ? Cos it’s mainly like name and address etc
 

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notmyrealname

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I think it's 10 days from the date of their letter, but the experts should be along later to confirm if I'm right or not. If it's not clear from their letter, you might want to reply by the 23rd to be on the safe side.
 

RoboJock8

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Do you think that they will contact my GP ? Because my latest diagnosis that I have is from my old GP and idek if the doctor even works there
 
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AlterEgo

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Do you think that they will contact my GP ? Because my latest diagnosis that I have is from my old GP and idek if the doctor even works there cos it was when I was at uni
No, they will not contact your GP. They will just read the letter and any evidence you send.
 

Hadders

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The letter you've been sent is their standard verification letter. I assume it's 10 days from the date of the letter, and this is the time you should aim to reply by but I doubt beiung a day or two late is going to adversely impact the outcome.

There's no need to send their form back but your reply must include the details they ask for and , especially the case reference number, your name and address.

They will not contact your GP. It is for you to provide evidence to assist your case.
 

RoboJock8

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Just received my medical records from GP. It is basically the notes they have taken for like past 10 years (my diagnosis of my depression / anxiety). I have edited out the unrelated issues. It is now 19 pages long. Should i just send all the logs of my mental health visits or should I trim it down etc ?
 
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John R

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Just received my medical records from GP. It is basically the notes they have taken for like past 8 years (my diagnosis of my depression / anxiety). I have edited out the unrelated issues. It is now 19 pages long. Should i just send all the logs of my mental health visits or should I trim it down etc ?
I'm really not sure this is going to help, particularly as you say you are currently not on any medication, not even a repeat prescription.

But I cannot see anyone trawling through 19 pages of medical notes (especially someone completely untrained to do so) - the investigators probably only have minutes to review and action each piece of correspondence they receive.
 

Pushpit

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You basically need to convince TfL that you are unwell. I can't see them flipping through 19 pages, or even 2 pages, but at least they have the option to do so if they wish. On the basis that the default is going to be a prosecution, you can't make it worse for you. So I would send all of it, but perhaps put a one page summary of your own wording.
 

RoboJock8

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I'm really not sure this is going to help, particularly as you say you are currently not on any medication, not even a repeat prescription.

But I cannot see anyone trawling through 19 pages of medical notes (especially someone completely untrained to do so) - the investigators probably only have minutes to review and action each piece of correspondence they receive.
The reason I am including it is to show why I am unemployed and therefore why I used the freedom pass. Also, to show how finding a job has already been tough so the prosecution will impact me even further etc especially because I intend to go into the civil service
 

alholmes

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The reason I am including it is to show why I am unemployed and therefore why I used the freedom pass. Also, to show how finding a job has already been tough so the prosecution will impact me even further etc especially because I intend to go into the civil service
But the TfL investigator is not going to read through 19 pages of a medical report. And how does it explain why you used the freedom pass? There are many unemployed people, like you. But they don’t then go on to use a family member’s freedom pass.
 

RoboJock8

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But the TfL investigator is not going to read through 19 pages of a medical report. And how does it explain why you used the freedom pass? There are many unemployed people, like you. But they don’t then go on to use a family member’s freedom pass.
how do you propose I approach it ? cos im getting alot of mixed messages. Some saying that my letter was written well and to get the medical docs then others saying they wont care. 19 pages is too long and I am going to trim it down but how do you suggest i approach the letter ?
 

alholmes

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If there’s a couple of key paragraphs in the 19 pages then you need to draw the investigators attention to them, but you need to be very clear. And you need to explain why you think it’s relevant. For example, say something like “I’d like to refer you to paragraph xx of page Zz of the medical notes which explains ………”. You’ve really got to guide the investigator here to the relevant bits, not just leave them to read 19 pages - they just won’t do that.
 

JordR

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I would think it would maximise your chance if the notes indicated you were suffering the condition at the time of the incident and/or that you were medicated at the time. Just indicating that you had a medical condition once in the past is unlikely to have much weight.
 

RoboJock8

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I would think it would maximise your chance if the notes indicated you were suffering the condition at the time of the incident and/or that you were medicated at the time. Just indicating that you had a medical condition once in the past is unlikely to have much weight.
Yeah I mean I have notes from 2 days ago. AFTER the incident.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

If there’s a couple of key paragraphs in the 19 pages then you need to draw the investigators attention to them, but you need to be very clear. And you need to explain why you think it’s relevant. For example, say something like “I’d like to refer you to paragraph xx of page Zz of the medical notes which explains ………”. You’ve really got to guide the investigator here to the relevant bits, not just leave them to read 19 pages - they just won’t do that.
Yeah I probably am going to cut down the 19 pages anyway. My letter is already quite long so idk if i want to add to it any further by inserting the refer to this document etc. How many pages wuld u say is a reasonable amount ?
 

AlterEgo

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Yeah I mean I have notes from 2 days ago. AFTER the incident.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Yeah I probably am going to cut down the 19 pages anyway. My letter is already quite long so idk if i want to add to it any further by inserting the refer to this document etc. How many pages wuld u say is a reasonable amount ?

To be honest, what you really need is a doctor's letter, not an array of notes. This isn't a case of "I have a health condition, so I should not be prosecuted".

It's of no concern at all to TfL that, like millions of people, you have a history of anxiety/depression and historically were on some antidepressant medication.

What is their concern is in deciding, as was mentioned upthread, whether your medical condition:
- fundamentally contributed to your dishonesty and diminished your responsibility (note that "I was depressed and on medication and then out of work as a result and don't have much money which is why I nicked a Freedom Pass" doesn't cut it here), or
- that your medical condition or disability is so severe that the consequences of a conviction would be completely disproportionate

If you are just sending them 19 pages of medical notes this is not likely to be very compelling. What you need is a doctor to write a letter for you which explains one of the two above points. If you are not on any medication or other treatment at the moment I would not expect them to write this for you, but I am not a doctor, and you can always ask.
 

RoboJock8

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To be honest, what you really need is a doctor's letter, not an array of notes. This isn't a case of "I have a health condition, so I should not be prosecuted".

It's of no concern at all to TfL that, like millions of people, you have a history of anxiety/depression and historically were on some antidepressant medication.

What is their concern is in deciding, as was mentioned upthread, whether your medical condition:
- fundamentally contributed to your dishonesty and diminished your responsibility (note that "I was depressed and on medication and then out of work as a result and don't have much money which is why I nicked a Freedom Pass" doesn't cut it here), or
- that your medical condition or disability is so severe that the consequences of a conviction would be completely disproportionate

If you are just sending them 19 pages of medical notes this is not likely to be very compelling. What you need is a doctor to write a letter for you which explains one of the two above points. If you are not on any medication or other treatment at the moment I would not expect them to write this for you, but I am not a doctor, and you can always ask.
what about the fact that my mental health may worsen as a result of a conviction affecting my career even further that it already has been ? This is the point i was tryna get across with my letter
 

JordR

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what about the fact that my mental health may worsen as a result of a conviction affecting my career even further that it already has been ? This is the point i was tryna get across with my letter
Think that one through. You should be let off because your mental health might deteriorate if convicted, should you be immune from all prosecution?
 

RoboJock8

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Think that one through. You should be let off because your mental health might deteriorate if convicted, should you be immune from all prosecution?
I mean my career journey has not been great due to my mental health. And due to the nature of what I wanna do, I am worried that my mental health will deteriorate even further if a prosecution harms my career even further. Like I have found it extremely tough as it is. I literally have not stopped worrying about this since it happened.
 
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