• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Ryde Esplanade platform 0/2 - could it be brought back into use?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Milo's Trains

On Moderation
Joined
10 Jun 2022
Messages
44
Location
Sussex
The disused platform on the IOW station ryde esplanade did get updated with new signals and had the 3rd rail all the way up to Ryde Pier Head was redone on the referbishment now my question is will this platform be put in use or will it stay unused with 3rd rail upgraded?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Lockwood

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
1,245
I thought they cut the track at Esplanade during the "recent" works, so it's now totally unusable?

Or was that something they were doing as part of it and it's now all back together?

Istr seeing a picture of it with a chunk missing and something stuck in the trackbed?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,271
I thought they cut the track at Esplanade during the "recent" works, so it's now totally unusable?

Or was that something they were doing as part of it and it's now all back together?

Istr seeing a picture of it with a chunk missing and something stuck in the trackbed?
You did. A photo of a signal placed in the four foot on the near side line as seen from a down train was definitely posted, (or referred to), in the original upgrade thread. It was then replaced by a half height signal off the ramp of the down platform which is co-acting with the right hand signal. Signals plated WFP 34 and WFP 34 CA.

AFAICS it definitely doesn’t provide for trains to use the disused platform.

I see that when the LT museum did a cab ride video after reopening there was still a gap there in both the tracks and the third rail. Can’t check on Google as the imagery predates the upgrade.
 
Last edited:

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
12,977
Location
Up the creek
It would be very surprising if they were to reopen the second line. The subway at Esplanade is blocked up, I believe with concrete, and the other platform is overgrown. The track layout would not allow a train to reach the second line except by a shunt move, so using it would be an operating nightmare…and for what? It is just possible that they have reinstated the rails where the gap was at the St Johns Road end of the platform, but only to allow trolleys and on rail machinery to use the second line during the current bout of refurbishment.

I should be in Ryde tomorrow and, due to a road closure in the town centre, have to get my bus home from the Interchange, so I will try and look.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,271
It would be very surprising if they were to reopen the second line. The subway at Esplanade is blocked up, I believe with concrete, and the other platform is overgrown. The track layout would not allow a train to reach the second line except by a shunt move, so using it would be an operating nightmare…and for what? It is just possible that they have reinstated the rails where the gap was at the St Johns Road end of the platform, but only to allow trolleys and on rail machinery to use the second line during the current bout of refurbishment.

I should be in Ryde tomorrow and, due to a road closure in the town centre, have to get my bus home from the Interchange, so I will try and look.
Back in the original thread you had wondered about the exact numbering/lettering, I can confirm the assumed “WFP 34 CA“ on the left hand signal is clear on the cab ride video I just watched.

Concur about the probability of reinstating the gap just to make it possible to move plant about.
 

Lucy1501

Member
Joined
9 Nov 2021
Messages
241
Location
Cumbria
The track layout would not allow a train to reach the second line except by a shunt move, so using it would be an operating nightmare…and for what?
The current layout was designed to allow for a shuttle from Pier Head to Esplanade.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
5,977
The current layout was designed to allow for a shuttle from Pier Head to Esplanade.
Does this imply an acceptance that the originally intended half-hourly timetable on the full line cannot be delivered, and that alternate (peak demand) ferries will be met by a pier shuttle instead?
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,463
Location
Lichfield
The current layout was designed to allow for a shuttle from Pier Head to Esplanade.

What current layout are you referring to, the layout as it is today or how it was during the 1938 stock days?

Just for clarity.
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
12,977
Location
Up the creek
The current layout consists of a single-line from the Pier Head to the St Johns Road end of Esplanade, where it becomes double (to Smallbrook Junction). A second line from the Pier Head ran alongside and joined the double track by a trailing connection just beyond the single to double points: this was for a shuttle up and down the pier and couldn’t be used as part of a service to stations further south. The shuttle line has been out of use for well over twenty years.

Does this imply an acceptance that the originally intended half-hourly timetable on the full line cannot be delivered, and that alternate (peak demand) ferries will be met by a pier shuttle instead?

What peak demand ferries? It is a flat hourly service. Extras only run at the time of the Festival (if then) and festival goers often walk up the pier. It is hardly worth reinstating a line for three days a year.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
5,977
What peak demand ferries? It is a flat hourly service. Extras only run at the time of the Festival (if then) and festival goers often walk up the pier. It is hardly worth reinstating a line for three days a year.
Indeed, but what other reason might there be for the (potential) shuttle referred to in post 6? I agree it seems very improbable. I don't think the IoWSR have any plans to try their pier tram out on the actual pier!
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
12,977
Location
Up the creek
The layout from electrification was double track between Pier Head and Smallbrook with scissors crossovers outside Pier Head station and a signal box. (I believe that this is correct but sources differ.) I think that the shuttle ran through to St Johns Road to turn round.

In 1974 the crossover was removed and the signal box closed; a new crossover was laid at the St Johns Road end of Esplanade to give the current layout. The shuttle was retained, but was shut in on the easternmost line, and only ran between Pier Head and Esplanade. Much latter the shuttle ceased to run and its line went out of use.
 

Lucy1501

Member
Joined
9 Nov 2021
Messages
241
Location
Cumbria
What current layout are you referring to, the layout as it is today or how it was during the 1938 stock days?
Both, certainly from my visits to the signal box the line is technically still there from a signalling perspective (even if it is totally impassible in reality). 33 points (from the down main to the disused line) are still detected and all the interlocking is still in place.

The layout from electrification was double track between Pier Head and Smallbrook with scissors crossovers outside Pier Head station and a signal box. (I believe that this is correct but sources differ.) I think that the shuttle ran through to St Johns Road to turn round.
I've attached a rough copy of the last Pier Head diagram which I drew last month, drawn from a black and white office copy.
 

Attachments

  • Ryde SBD.png
    Ryde SBD.png
    94.3 KB · Views: 132

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
12,977
Location
Up the creek
I was in Ryde today and had a look. A section of rail has been inserted in the former shuttle line between the end of the platform and the trap points: it is a bit of a rough job with no real transition in the curve, but probably usable by trolleys and four-wheel on-track machines (there was one sitting on the shuttle line on the pier). Partway between the toe of the trap points and the end of the run-off rail there is a wide gate into the Hoverspeed circulating area and the shuttle line is infilled with gravel to make it suitable to move vehicles on and off.
 

hermit

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2019
Messages
443
Location
Isle of Wight
What peak demand ferries? It is a flat hourly service. Extras only run at the time of the Festival (if then) and festival goers often walk up the pier. It is hardly worth reinstating a line for three days a year.
Not quite - the Wightlink timetable shows a half-hourly service also on bank holidays and on Saturdays and Sundays in the summer school holiday (mid-July to end -August). Not entirely reliable - last year the second boat runs were often subject to late cancellations.

But the main point remains valid - there is absolutely no case for reinstating the second line up the pier.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,463
Location
Lichfield
But the main point remains valid - there is absolutely no case for reinstating the second line up the pier.

I'd never like to see it go, but I'm struggling to see the need for the railway to run along the pier at all, given the costs involved in running, maintaining and the current renovation, I'd suggest a shuttle bus running up and down the pier connecting with the boat and train would be a more cost effective option.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,271
I'd never like to see it go, but I'm struggling to see the need for the railway to run along the pier at all, given the costs involved in running, maintaining and the current renovation, I'd suggest a shuttle bus running up and down the pier connecting with the boat and train would be a more cost effective option.
The road pier isn’t strong enough to support a decent size shuttle bus. They don’t even allow large vans on the pier.
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
12,977
Location
Up the creek
I'd never like to see it go, but I'm struggling to see the need for the railway to run along the pier at all, given the costs involved in running, maintaining and the current renovation, I'd suggest a shuttle bus running up and down the pier connecting with the boat and train would be a more cost effective option.

If the trains no longer run through to the Pier Head, then the line as a whole becomes uneconomic. (Well, even more uneconomic than it already is.) With a few exceptions, the buses do provide a generally more convenient service, but the train’s great advantage is that it provides a direct connection out of the FastCats to the eastern side of the island. If you are going to force people to make an additional change at Esplanade, many will continue by bus and the line will be forced to close. Or is that what you intend?

On a purely practical basis, there are weight and speed limits on the pier and limited space at both ends. The shuttle would probably not be sufficiently reliable to attract custom.
 

geoffk

On Moderation
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Exeter
It might have been sensible to single the track through Ryde Tunnel and run the one track along the middle of the formation, seeing that the restricted clearance dictates the stock which can be used. I see there's nothing running up the pier at present - is this yet more maintenance work?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,271
[…]
I see there's nothing running up the pier at present - is this yet more maintenance work?
It’s maintenance of the rail pier under-structure that was planned by NR to be done independently of the line upgrade For D stock. I think the saga is discussed in the main Island Line thread in the infrastructure sub-forum.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,463
Location
Lichfield
The road pier isn’t strong enough to support a decent size shuttle bus. They don’t even allow large vans on the pier.

Didn't know that, but it makes sense.

If the trains no longer run through to the Pier Head, then the line as a whole becomes uneconomic. (Well, even more uneconomic than it already is.) With a few exceptions, the buses do provide a generally more convenient service, but the train’s great advantage is that it provides a direct connection out of the FastCats to the eastern side of the island. If you are going to force people to make an additional change at Esplanade, many will continue by bus and the line will be forced to close. Or is that what you intend?

I wouldn't like to see it close, from an enthusiast point of view, I love the Island Line, it's quirky, but as you say, it's uneconomic and the buses generally provide a more convenient service coving most of the island.

Did the island grind to a halt during any of the recent full line closures? Depending on the answer to this, it does raise the uncomfortable question about how much more money should be poured into the line...
 
Joined
2 Feb 2019
Messages
1,039
I'd never like to see it go, but I'm struggling to see the need for the railway to run along the pier at all, given the costs involved in running, maintaining and the current renovation, I'd suggest a shuttle bus running up and down the pier connecting with the boat and train would be a more cost effective option.
The Island Line train which fastcat passengers connect with at the sea end of Ryde Pier is the only effective convenient comfortable way of providing public transport along Ryde Pier all the way to and from the fastcat to and from Portsmouth Harbour. I would walk the length of Ryde Pier rather than use a shuttle bus. In addition to providing transport the full length of Ryde Pier to Ryde Esplanade for Ryde town and buses connecting with everywhere else on the Isle on Wight, the Island Line train also provides direct non-stop transport to Smallbrook Junction for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, a connection only available by train, and the resorts of Sandown and Shanklin which the train reaches in half the time taken by the bus. The train connects the about 40 percent of the Isle of Wight population in Ryde, Brading, Sandown and Shanklin as well as transporting visitors to and from the Steam Railway and the two resorts. The lack of a deep water harbour at Ryde and the resulting need for the long Pier into deep water for the ferry to Portsmouth is undoubtedly the reason this railway from Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin still exists and why I think it will have to continue to exist.
The benefit of the train is that it provides direct transport all the way between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin serving Ryde Esplanade and five other stations between. I do not think there would be any point in running any trains just as shuttles between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde Pier Head. Current work on Ryde Pier means until May 2025 the train only runs between Ryde Esplanade and Shanklin but this is temporary.
 
Last edited:

geoffk

On Moderation
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Exeter
The Island Line train which fastcat passengers connect with at the sea end of Ryde Pier is the only effective convenient comfortable way of providing public transport along Ryde Pier all the way to and from the fastcat to and from Portsmouth Harbour. I would walk the length of Ryde Pier rather than use a shuttle bus. In addition to providing transport the full length of Ryde Pier to Ryde Esplanade for Ryde town and buses connecting with everywhere else on the Isle on Wight, the Island Line train also provides direct non-stop transport to Smallbrook Junction for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, a connection only available by train, and the resorts of Sandown and Shanklin which the train reaches in half the time taken by the bus. The train connects the about 40 percent of the Isle of Wight population in Ryde, Brading, Sandown and Shanklin as well as transporting visitors to and from the Steam Railway and the two resorts. The lack of a deep water harbour at Ryde and the resulting need for the long Pier into deep water for the ferry to Portsmouth is undoubtedly the reason this railway from Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin still exists and why I think it will have to continue to exist.
The benefit of the train is that it provides direct transport all the way between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin serving Ryde Esplanade and five other stations between. I do not think there would be any point in running any trains just as shuttles between Ryde Esplanade and Ryde Pier Head. Current work on Ryde Pier means until May 2025 the train only runs between Ryde Esplanade and Shanklin but this is temporary.
Perhaps the light rail option was a better one, but it seemed to founder on the question of through ticketing to the mainland.
 

hermit

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2019
Messages
443
Location
Isle of Wight
I’m aware of the sunk cost fallacy, but it would seem pretty perverse to abandon the pier given the millions that have recently been spent during two lengthy closures.

As someone who uses the pier frequently, and expects to continue to do so during the remainder of the closure period, I have to say that the minibus shuttle arrangements work quite well now that there are dedicated parking spots and improved signage at each end. But it’s obviously not a satisfactory long-term solution, given the extra change and time penalties involved.

And this week, when there are replacement buses on the mainland side as well, getting to Havant and beyond is a real multi-modal ordeal.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
9,276
It might have been sensible to single the track through Ryde Tunnel and run the one track along the middle of the formation, seeing that the restricted clearance dictates the stock which can be used. I see there's nothing running up the pier at present - is this yet more maintenance work?
IIRC its two tunnels for at least part of the way so you can’t go down the middle??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top