Arriva (Beds, Bucks, Herts)

[arrivamatt]

Preusmably not until they get replaced with the new Evora's which we're told in NE they're delayed til around June time, so assume it'll be April/May before the first lot arrive.

Indeed, the Luton examples should all be delivered by the beginning of May, slightly later than expected but will be a welcome addition to the fleet.

As a point of interest, an Enviro 100EV demonstrator was being tested and profiled on the Leighton's Buses network earlier this week. From Monday, a Yutong GTe14 electric coach will be on demonstration on Greenline for a couple of weeks to trial it's use on the Greenline 757. This is to help shape future discussions about the next generation of Greenline coaches.

would a expansion of the Greenline brand be viable?

Think it's safe to say that the brand has evolved over the years to exclusively form our London to London Luton Airport/Luton proposition. That's not to say that it couldn't expand or change in the future, but is a view of what Greenline is today.

In that case, it is a brave venture ... 4 PVR and maybe 10 rota lines is a substantial investment to make.
Here's hoping ....

Thanks @greenline712 - there are two full-time vehicles employed on the route all day, with the timetable bolstered in the off-peak by some split boards. It is a big investment to make and hope that this test of the market develops over time - it's a great supplemental addition to our existing network, as well as bridging some gaps in Milton Keynes that haven't had a fixed-line bus route for some years. The positive comments were plentiful when travelling around on the first day in service; so we trust that we'll see a steady growth in patronage, as well as feedback from customers to help develop the route over the longer term.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Loop is fully commercial, with Milton Keynes City Council providing data insights to help design the route, along with support for promotion and publicity.

There is an interesting review of Arriva's new Loop service over on Roger French's bus blog: https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/01/09/milton-keynes-goes-loopy/

 

[Edvid]

From Monday, a Yutong GTe14 electric coach will be on demonstration on Greenline for a couple of weeks to trial it's use on the Greenline 757. This is to help shape future discussions about the next generation of Greenline coaches.

Can passengers use it, or is the trial a staff-only event? Battery-electric coaches will probably remain a rarity in England / Wales for some time so I may try it on my next trip to London should the opportunity arise.

Also, with Woburn Sands on the LOOP will Milton Keynes' PlusBus area expand to cover it?

 

[Edvid]

Can passengers use it, or is the trial a staff-only event?

Used it this afternoon - just as well as it sounded like the demo would be returned to Pelican tomorrow. Tickets were issued by a handheld machine (couldn't tell if it was Ticketer or not).

 

[Fin447]

Does anyone know how many and what length evoras are on order for Luton?

 

[Voyager 2953]

Does anyone know how many and what length evoras are on order for Luton?

They are all full length; I’ve heard but probably not correctly that MK is to receive some ex busway Volvo B7s.

 

[Haywain]

They are all full length;

Sorry, not in the know but does this mean greater (seating) capacity than whatever they will replace?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is an interesting review of Arriva's new Loop service over on Roger French's bus blog: https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/01/09/milton-keynes-goes-loopy/

I've long called for a figure-8 type route of that nature. This is only half of it of course (maybe if it's successful we'll see another one taking in Stony, Wolverton and Newport?), but with Milton Keynes' low frequencies the old adage of "an hourly direct service from everywhere to everywhere" does at least connect stuff up for those who can't drive without long waits and lengthy diversions via the centre, though I doubt many who can drive would choose to use it. And Birmingham of course has long had such a route, albeit not going via the centre. Interesting to see it's a commercial trial rather than Bus Service Improvement Plan funded though.

Willen Lake is a surprising omission from the map - a very popular destination and it does serve the stops at Woolstone Roundabout which are the nearest ones to the main visitor complex.

 

[Voyager 2953]

Sorry, not in the know but does this mean greater (seating) capacity than whatever they will replace?

Yes; they will be 12m; Luton has both 10.8 and 12m Evoras.

 

[Haywain]

Yes; they will be 12m; Luton has both 10.8 and 12m Evoras.

That's good news. Thanks.

 

[moogal]

Found the (fairly new, at least within the last year according to some old timetables I had) late departure of the F70/F77 route from Luton extremely useful last week when Euston was in chaos after a points failure at Watford. Was able to get across from Luton to Leighton Buzzard quite comfortably, and charge my phone on the USB too. The only two negatives for me were that the bus was very dirty and full of litter inside (I imagine it'd had a hard day at this point!) and the timings seemed overly generous for an evening service when traffic was minimal - there were several points where we had to sit at a stop for around 5 minutes. To give him credit, the driver was really good at giving us updates on when he was going to have to wait for time. Eventually got me home quicker than getting on something out of Euston would have, despite the detour!

 

[Statto]

Just a query, but can passengers who have ENCTS passes (i have a Merseytravel issued disabled ENCTS pass) use the 724 from Harlow through to Heathrow, or to & from Heathrow?

 

[Edvid]

Just a query, but can passengers who have ENCTS passes (i have a Merseytravel issued disabled ENCTS pass) use the 724 from Harlow through to Heathrow, or to & from Heathrow?

I don't believe Heathrow is excluded from ENCTS acceptance on stage carriage routes (including the 724), so it should be fine for those journeys.

 

[greenline712]

I don't believe Heathrow is excluded from ENCTS acceptance on stage carriage routes (including the 724), so it should be fine for those journeys.

Subject to the usual 0930 start on weekdays, of course . . . a Herts CC resident may travel before that time, but a Merseytravel pass may not.

 

[Statto]

Subject to the usual 0930 start on weekdays, of course . . . a Herts CC resident may travel before that time, but a Merseytravel pass may not.

My pass is valid outside Merseyside 09.30 until 23.00, but wasn't sure whether it was valid to/from Heathrow, as i know Arriva used to charge premium fares on the 724 to/from Heathrow, before the £2 fare (now £3 fare) was brought in.

 

[greenline712]

My pass is valid outside Merseyside 09.30 until 23.00, but wasn't sure whether it was valid to/from Heathrow, as i know Arriva used to charge premium fares on the 724 to/from Heathrow, before the £2 fare (now £3 fare) was brought in.

Charging a premium fare (in this case) was to do with not wanting to accept TfL passes between Uxbridge and Heathrow .... although I'm not sure they still do charge a "premium" fare.

The principle of an ENCTS pass is that it is valid throughout England on all registered bus services ... and including in London. There are a very few exceptions, and these are almost always "tourist" services, or those services operated for special events.

The rule concerning cross-border services should be that the pass is valid IF one end of the journey is in England .... but in the case of Berwick to Edinburgh, I'm really not sure ... and I'm not likely to try it!!

 

[Edvid]

The singles cap applies to Heathrow journeys as well, though All Zones tickets (for the combined Shires & Essex area, as was) aren't valid south of Uxbridge on the 724.

 

[Deerfold]

The principle of an ENCTS pass is that it is valid throughout England on all registered bus services ... and including in London. There are a very few exceptions, and these are almost always "tourist" services, or those services operated for special events.

Plus some express buses, such as the 757 London - Luton and Red Arrow Derby-Nottingham (which for a few months accepted them in one direction, only).

 

[Edvid]

On that note, ENCTS acceptance on the 757 changed recently. Here's what currently applies:

Special travel deals for people over 60​

If you hold an English National Concessionary Travel Pass you may travel for free on Greenline 757:

• When travelling between Bricket Wood, Luton Airport, and Luton Interchange
• When travelling wholly within the TfL boundary (Victoria to Brent Cross) with a London Freedom Pass

Customers travelling between Luton Interchange, Luton Airport, and destinations in London will need to purchase a normal Adult ticket through the Arriva UK Bus app, or from the driver with cash or contactless.

My mother used her pass for discounted Luton-London trips (£10 singles to London, free coming back) a few times before the above took effect. In fairness, adult returns were reduced from £20 to £14 at around the same time.

 

[espicer]

They are all full length; I’ve heard but probably not correctly that MK is to receive some ex busway Volvo B7s.

I doubt they will go to MK as they've had a few Pulsars transfer from the North West. I have heard that the B7s on the Busway will replace the E200MMCs when they go up to Merseyside. Then, the Busway should be mostly Evoras only for Arriva. Centrebus is due Evoras in Luton as well in the coming months.

Also, Grant Palmer begins their Jo route tomorrow. Interesting name, no idea where that has come from. Hopefully, this will see quicker journeys to Linmere and it's good to see that the housing estate gets served by a bus and that there are connections from the Busway and Houghton Regis to Linmere, which many people have been crying out for. I'm wondering whether more factory workers will use the Jo and then walk up to the Lidl factory from the housing estate, certainly a much quicker route than the 23 is. The 23 should just go to Upper Sundon in my opinion. But who knows? I'll try the Jo tomorrow and see if it's good.

 

[aron2smith]

Just a query, but can passengers who have ENCTS passes (i have a Merseytravel issued disabled ENCTS pass) use the 724 from Harlow through to Heathrow, or to & from Heathrow?

ENCTS can be used on any local buses that serve Heathrow, the same with Stansted. The places (like Bristol) that restrict bus passes for airports make no sense to me, they are a key part of any local bus network. On TFL, many bus journeys are just quicker if you go via Heathrow, even Superloop was designed like this.

 

[Haywain]

no idea where that has come from.

J was the next unused letter for a busway service, I suppose, and Grrant Palmer evidently like 'clever' names for routes.

I'm wondering whether more factory workers will use the Jo and then walk up to the Lidl factory from the housing estate,

I think the limited hours of the new service will work against that.

 

[espicer]

J was the next unused letter for a busway service, I suppose, and Grrant Palmer evidently like 'clever' names for routes.

I think the limited hours of the new service will work against that.

I guess the letter D has been forgotten about then haha. And yeah, I agree, didn't look at that part of the timetable haha, but I wouldn't be surprised in the future if the 23 gets withdrawn from Linmere because I think the Jo will make journey times a lot faster.

 

[Haywain]

I guess the letter D has been forgotten about then haha.

I'm pretty sure there was a route D, possibly to Downside, but can't remember the details or when it stopped.

 

[espicer]

I'm pretty sure there was a route D, possibly to Downside, but can't remember the details or when it stopped.

I don't think there has been a D on the Busway, I think you're referring to the DB routes that operated in the early 2000s though which were little minibuses going round the estates

 

[Deerfold]

ENCTS can be used on any local buses that serve Heathrow, the same with Stansted. The places (like Bristol) that restrict bus passes for airports make no sense to me, they are a key part of any local bus network. On TFL, many bus journeys are just quicker if you go via Heathrow, even Superloop was designed like this.

Are they valid on the Hotel Hoppa Routes (H2A, H2B, H2C, H2D, H2X, H5A, H5B, H5C, H5D, H5H, H5X)?

I'd travelled via Heathrow at least a dozen times before I used it for flights.

 

[Edvid]

Are they valid on the Hotel Hoppa Routes (H2A, H2B, H2C, H2D, H2X, H5A, H5B, H5C, H5D, H5H, H5X)?

They aren't.

Concessionary Travel Schemes​

Local Authority / National Concessionary Travel Passes are not valid for travel on Hotel Hoppa services.

Back to Arriva - the timetables on the 757 route page are still presented in a confusing layout.* A legible version of it is available on the general Greenline page but it's an old version from July 2024.

[* An acknowledgment of this issue has adorned the past few 757 timetables presented on that template: Please see timetable at https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/greenline - we apologise for any inconvenience while our team work to fix the problem with how the timetable below displays on this page!]

 

[Statto]

They aren't.


Back to Arriva - the timetables on the 757 route page are still presented in a confusing layout.* A legible version of it is available on the general Greenline page but it's an old version from July 2024.

[* An acknowledgment of this issue has adorned the past few 757 timetables presented on that template: Please see timetable at https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/greenline - we apologise for any inconvenience while our team work to fix the problem with how the timetable below displays on this page!]

I have to say, by the way it's laid out, the 757 timetable is a complete mess, & so confusing, as it looks like the route operates in 3 sections, not as a single through route.

Here's the Stagecoach 685 Carlisle - Newcastle timetable, & how timetables should be laid out when journey operates through, but is split into sections.

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Cumbria/Carlisle/CNL%20685%201124%20WEB.pdf

 

[aron2smith]

Are they valid on the Hotel Hoppa Routes (H2A, H2B, H2C, H2D, H2X, H5A, H5B, H5C, H5D, H5H, H5X)?

I'd travelled via Heathrow at least a dozen times before I used it for flights.

I forgot about those, but they aren't regular routes. Many if not all of these hotels are reachable by the regular bus routes anyway. The Renaissance Hotel (H2X) for example is served by 105, 111, 278 and 285 a short walk away (almost outside!) - all go to Heathrow Airport Central. So they would be free with a Bus Pass but not the Hotel Hoppa.

Stansted seems to have a similar arrangement where the shuttle buses cost money regardless of a bus pass, so next time we are using that airport, staying in a hotel just outside the airport and then using the regular bus routes which are free with a bus pass to get to the airport. Makes more sense.

 

[Deerfold]

I forgot about those, but they aren't regular routes. Many if not all of these hotels are reachable by the regular bus routes anyway. The Renaissance Hotel (H2X) for example is served by 105, 111, 278 and 285 a short walk away (almost outside!) - all go to Heathrow Airport Central. So they would be free with a Bus Pass but not the Hotel Hoppa.

Stansted seems to have a similar arrangement where the shuttle buses cost money regardless of a bus pass, so next time we are using that airport, staying in a hotel just outside the airport and then using the regular bus routes which are free with a bus pass to get to the airport. Makes more sense.

I'm familiar with the Hoppa routes - and how much more expensive and less frequent they are for almost all trips - I was just pointing out local registered routes that didn't accept ENTCS.

I've used Gatwick less often (and only arrived at Stanstead by coach or train) and local buses there were cheaper and more frequent than a dedicated shuttle service to the hotel I stayed at.