NYMR news and updates.

[D6130]

What happened to 101685? No update on it since 2022. And is 101680 the one that's sat rotting for the past few years?

....and what happened to the two green and cream ex-Scottish Region two car class 100 units that worked regularly in multiple back in the 1970s and 1980s?

 

[Iskra]

I remember that there was a 101 working until around 2021 at least that often did a morning turn. I also remember another Green DMU looking worse for wear near Grosmont in a siding alongside the running track.

 

[Notabene]

There's a two car and a three car set. The two car is in a terrible state and the three car is stored but not too bad.
The earlier DMU was a Gloucester set in LNER colours. A good set, cosmetically, but plagued by mechanical faults. See Bernard Warr's memoirs.

Today's equivalent would be a 143 pacer with the front bulkhead removed to provide a scenic experience.

 

[30907]

The big advantage that the KWVR have with their Parcels Office café/bar is that it is public-facing with its main entrance on the street, it's licensed, it does hot food and it's open for much longer hours than the railway and on days when the railway isn't operating. As a result it's used by local people and main line rail passengers as well and - while I haven't seen the relevant figures - I'm pretty sure that it's a net contributor to the railway's finances. Perhaps @30907 could confirm or otherwise?

Sorry, he can't. Not my department, I rarely have time to visit, and I'm not management/trustee level

However, the OPO (which started life just at the wrong time, and has had to cope with NR's major station refurbishment more recently) is also the base for much of the railway's on-train catering, which I hope makes money!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Sorry, he can't. Not my department, I rarely have time to visit, and I'm not management/trustee level

However, the OPO (which started life just at the wrong time, and has had to cope with NR's major station refurbishment more recently) is also the base for much of the railway's on-train catering, which I hope makes money!

Second line in particular, it does support the wider KWVR catering including on train which is a good earner. As you say it opened about a month before COVID and as we have ramped up its service the huge redevelopment of Keighley Station (which was essential and has in the face of the challenges been handled well by all parties) has made a hit too. I am hopeful 2025 will be the year it gets to stretch its legs, especially being open all year.

 

[sprinterguy]

....and what happened to the two green and cream ex-Scottish Region two car class 100 units that worked regularly in multiple back in the 1970s and 1980s?

Disposed of to the Swanage Railway in 1985/6 due to increasing unreliability, soon moved on to the West Somerset Railway where one set was scrapped in 1991. The remaining set is gradually being restored by the Llangollen Railcar Group at the Midland Railway Butterley.

More info here:

Preserved Vehicles

 

[D6130]

Disposed of to the Swanage Railway in 1985/6 due to increasing unreliability, soon moved on to the West Somerset Railway where one set was scrapped in 1991. The remaining set is gradually being restored by the Llangollen Railcar Group at the Midland Railway Butterley.

More info here:

Preserved Vehicles

Very interesting. Thanks!

 

[sprinterguy]

There's a two car and a three car set. The two car is in a terrible state and the three car is stored but not too bad.

Thanks for the info, I recall travelling on the 3 car set on a low season service in Autumn 2019 of the sort suggested by SeanG on a previous page. I was a little disappointed to read a little while ago that it had since fallen out of use.

 

[30907]

Second line in particular, it does support the wider KWVR catering including on train which is a good earner. As you say it opened about a month before COVID and as we have ramped up its service the huge redevelopment of Keighley Station (which was essential and has in the face of the challenges been handled well by all parties) has made a hit too. I am hopeful 2025 will be the year it gets to stretch its legs, especially being open all year.

Much as I thought, I knew you'd be along

 

[SuspectUsual]

I'm afriad Belperpete is right, the whole cost of providing a round of coffees in a cafe, ie premises, utilities, staff are such that its most likely that the heritage railway will be making a loss on the purchase. Secondary spend profitablity is one of the issues facing all the heritage Railways that I talk to. Its why most railways are cutting back shore catering to minimum/ eliminating it all together.

That's interesting.

The Talyllyn for one have significantly grown the profitability of their catering operation, which is obviously entirely off-train.

I remember reading the numbers in the most recent set of accounts and being very impressed, but don't have access to the issue of Talyllyn News they were printed in (someone else might - its an insert in the centre pages) but looking at the group accounts filed at Companies House there is reference to "catering exceeded all expectations", "massive success story", and "the extraordinary surplus recorded in the catering operation"

 

[LMS 4F]

To be honest i think that Ive only been in the NYMRs cafe at Grosmont but the problem that the majority of heritage railways have is that their footfall is limited to at best maybe an hour before the departure of a train. This surge of customers requires that you need to have a large premises and multiple members of staff to deal with the queues that only exist for maybe 15 minutes 4 or 5 times a day. If you are paying the catering assistants minimum wage, you will need at least one supervisor/ manager above that. Experience is that returning cutomers quite quickly leave the premises and dont spend on catering.
Obviously there are outlets where the footfall is far larger than the preserved railway. The KVWRs Parcel Office? at Keighley Station is one Ive eaten in recently.
Even if the cafe as a whole can cover its costs, this wont be as a result of customers coming in and buying a round of coffees. Theres a reason why Costa, Starbucks etc. charge £4 to £5 for a premium coffee and hope you will buy a £6 toastie to go with it and thats on a much bigger footfall than is experienced by a heritage railway.

At Pickering there is a Costa branch two minutes walk from the station and numerous other local cafes etc.
Grosmont has a pub at the end of Platform3 and cafes not far away.
None of this will help to make catering pay for NYMR.

 

[Notabene]

Catering does pay. The Pickering cafe is busy.

 

[D Williams]

Catering does pay. The Pickering cafe is busy

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity but cashflow is king......

 

[paul1609]

That's interesting.

The Talyllyn for one have significantly grown the profitability of their catering operation, which is obviously entirely off-train.

I remember reading the numbers in the most recent set of accounts and being very impressed, but don't have access to the issue of Talyllyn News they were printed in (someone else might - its an insert in the centre pages) but looking at the group accounts filed at Companies House there is reference to "catering exceeded all expectations", "massive success story", and "the extraordinary surplus recorded in the catering operation"

It's a long time since I've been to the Talyllyn but are they able to resource their catering largely using volunteers?
Also note that my statement is that a round of coffees (from the OPs statement) that won't be profitable at the NYMR not necessarily all catering.
It's worth also noting that Catering at NYMR has turnover roughly twice that of the entire Talyllyn railway.

 

[SuspectUsual]

It's a long time since I've been to the Talyllyn but are they able to resource their catering largely using volunteers?
Also note that my statement is that a round of coffees (from the OPs statement) that won't be profitable at the NYMR not necessarily all catering.
It's worth also noting that Catering at NYMR has turnover roughly twice that of the entire Talyllyn railway.

As I understand it, the cafe staff is largely paid rather than volunteer

I'm not sure of the relevance of relative turnover between the two railways

I was just pointing out that the Talyllyn are growing the profitability of their catering operation (despite not opening more hours / opening additional space)

 

[industrial060]

Here’s another thing.

The NYMR featured in a channel 5 documentary series relatively recently, that according to the railway got over 1.1 million viewers.

That’s publicity every other preserved railway can only dream of - and yet they’re still haemorrhaging money

I think the factual evidence will be along soon, I asked today and was told the accounts are due on 7th March but only to members and the boards, no doubt someone will share them pretty quickly.

 

[43096]

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity but cashflow is king......

Or…

Turnover is vanity
Profit is sanity
Cashflow is reality

 

[lauderlight]

There’s not really any need for the sarcasm. It’s all additional spend.

There is now plenty of parking at Pickering. The original car park is fairly small but there’s overflow parking too. Presumably this land is already paid for, so it’s money for very little. The profit margin on hot drinks is also strong.

Regardless of your pugnacious view, I suspect the railway appreciated a three figure amount of cash from me over the year.

What additional NYMR parking at Pickering?

The NYMR only own the original car park. The car park on the right (before you enter the original car park) isn't owned by the NYMR, its a private enterprise. There is overflow parking at the Trout Farm crossing (near the carriage stable) but I doubt anybody would check for tickets there.

ANPR is going to be introduced this year to the car parks. I don't know if this is just Pickering or all the stations. If it includes Grosmont, this will cause a few grumbles as there is an unwritten agreement between Grosmont residents and the NYMR that allows them to use the car park for free.

 

[Notabene]

APNR at the car parks - whatever next?

 

[kje7812]

APNR at the car parks - whatever next?

Other heritage railways have it.

 

[D6130]

APNR at the car parks - whatever next?

Excuse my ignorance as a non car driver, but what does APNR stand for?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Excuse my ignorance as a non car driver, but what does APNR stand for?

Automatic number plate recognition

 

[Wandering Pom]

ANPR = automatic number-plate recognition.

 

[D6130]

Automatic number plate recognition

ANPR = automatic number-plate recognition.

Thanks both!

 

[philthetube]

What additional NYMR parking at Pickering?

The NYMR only own the original car park. The car park on the right (before you enter the original car park) isn't owned by the NYMR, its a private enterprise. There is overflow parking at the Trout Farm crossing (near the carriage stable) but I doubt anybody would check for tickets there.

ANPR is going to be introduced this year to the car parks. I don't know if this is just Pickering or all the stations. If it includes Grosmont, this will cause a few grumbles as there is an unwritten agreement between Grosmont residents and the NYMR that allows them to use the car park for free.

There is no reason why the railway could have a list of non charged registration numbers if they wished.

 

[industrial060]

I was at Grosmont yesterday for a trip on the NER auto car. Spoke to one of the staff about car parking, he said that the ANPR idea has been scrapped because it was going to cost too much and that the volunteers weren’t happy that they would have to park in another car park

 

[kje7812]

I was at Grosmont yesterday for a trip on the NER auto car. Spoke to one of the staff about car parking, he said that the ANPR idea has been scrapped because it was going to cost too much and that the volunteers weren’t happy that they would have to park in another car park

Why would they have to park in another car park?

 

[lineisclear]

Why would they have to park in another car park?

They wouldn't. They would be able to park for free as they do now if they display a car park pass with the correct car registrtaion number on it. The only diffrenece is that number will be on the ANPR list of non chargeable vehicles.

 

[kje7812]

They wouldn't. They would be able to park for free as they do now if they display a car park pass with the correct car registrtaion number on it. The only diffrenece is that number will be on the ANPR list of non chargeable vehicles.

Which is how it was at Severn Valley, hence my confusion from previous post.

 

[industrial060]

Not according to the staff member there yesterday, he said that the volunteers were going to get a pass for the car parking down the road and the Pickering staff / volunteers were going to have to park off site to maximise the visitor spaces and that’s why they were annoyed and the residents were annoyed because the railway had proposed allowing them to park overnight but they had to move there cars early in the morning or they were going to get a pass for another car park. He said the car park price was going up to £7 a day which had made the Esk valley railway people angry. He seemed to know a lot about it and had some kind of bag with him so may have been collecting the car parking money as the machine wasn’t working. I paid in the booking office and it was only £5