Is there ever such a thing as a blanket set back authorisation?

[Egg Centric]

In really awful weather it seems to me that theoretically at least there could be a "blanket set back authorisation" where it is announced that it is permitted at XYZ stations where the signalling makes this absolutely safe* and not a hassle** for trains that overshot by a few hundred yards to reverse on their own authority. Does anything like this actually exist though? If not, has it?***



*So long as there are not weird moves that would be prohibited if this were authorised

**Eg they couldn't have passed a subsequent signal

***Other than in my driving tonight**** on train simulator which has prompted the question.

****Not a few hundred yards bad. But fifty yards bad. That's bad enough.

 

[LowLevel]

No it doesn't exist, any overshoot is managed individually and setting back the train into the station can only be authorised by the signaller.

It would not be usual for trains to be sliding through a station repeatedly.

 

[Vexed]

Signallers can authorise drivers to go back up to 400m in situations you describe, so plain line, no signals, level crossings, etc.

In really awful weather

Bad weather doesn't necessarily mean bad adhesion - light rain can be much worse than heavy rain.

 

[PupCuff]

My take would be, what problem would it solve?

The Driver would need to change ends anyway unless you're proposing we start driving trains from the back, I'd also be concerned that it would open up a risk that the overrun didn't get reported into the Signaller or Control and hence the required industry reporting isn't done.

Also what if the conductor released the doors, potentially with someone leaving the train whilst it was not platformed, and then the Driver making the return move to the station without the area being checked for persons who may have fallen?

If it was adhesion related, you'd want the signaller to know in order to look at cautioning following trains and/or getting someone out to check and treat the railhead.

I think it would probably cause more problems than it would fix.

 

[Egg Centric]

No it doesn't exist, any overshoot is managed individually and setting back the train into the station can only be authorised by the signaller.

It would not be usual for trains to be sliding through a station repeatedly.

Thank you - I did think as much if it were an infrequent occurrence which is what I wasn't sure about it. In my defence I'd point out it also wouldn't be usual these days for drivers to have had this much (or anything) to drink either.

I guess the "has it" question is what I'm now interested in. It clearly happened back in the day as detailed in this post when I was doing some research... but whether there was any formality to it is the question...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2025 ==

Actually interestingly in that thread there is this:

LU Rules now allow a train to be set-back (ie. reversed from leading cab) by up to one-car length on most of the network; except Wimbledon-Putney Bridge, Network Rail lines, stations with platform edge doors.

Not the same as a few hundred yards but what I did at Aston this evening (to reiterate this is me driving in a simulator not recounting what I experienced as a passenger in a real service)

 

[Harpo]

The Driver would need to change ends anyway unless you're proposing we start driving trains from the back

Changing ends for everything hasn’t always been the case.

 

[PupCuff]

Changing ends for everything hasn’t always been the case.

I mean you could take that approach to a lot of things, but I like to think that we're running a safer railway now than then...

 

[74A]

Yes it has happened. Coombe and Finstock had such an authorisation. Not sure if they still do.

 

[Harpo]

I mean you could take that approach to a lot of things, but I like to think that we're running a safer railway now than then...

Couldn’t agree more. We’ve come a long way from secondmen in the leading cab waving back their driver in the rear with a rolled-up newspaper. And that was a better example.

 

[whoosh]

I'd be interested to know if there was ever such a procedure for the Jubilee Line Extension before ATO came in. Even a slight overshoot would mean the platform edge doors wouldn't line up.
I've a feeling answer might be that the train was just driven to the next station though.