Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[800001]

Neil Durry, SWR's engineering director, will be holding a conference on the 20th providing an update on the 701s
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For some reason it's being held at a church.... make what you will from that

Because it is a meeting of Railway Correspondence & Travel Society, so that will be the sort for venue where they hold there get togethers.

I highly doubt anything significant will be shared at an event like this.

 

[wickham]

All the RCTS Surrey Branch meetings are held at this venue, it is indeed a church but it also has meeting rooms to hire out, a cafe and childrens play activities. COVID vacinations were also carried ot here !

 

[73128]

Neil Durry, SWR's engineering director, will be holding a conference on the 20th providing an update on the 701s: https://rcts.org.uk/event/surrey-branch-february-2025-meeting/
View attachment 174627
For some reason it's being held at a church.... make of that what you will

It's where that branch normally meet.

 

[swtrains]

I highly doubt anything significant will be shared at an event like this.

Why is the event over 2 hours long then?

 

[800001]

Why is the event over 2 hours long then?

Because maybe he will talk about more than just the 701?

The institute of rail operators have similar events where people from various talks give talks about various projects and they last for several hours.

Like I said, highly doubt he will talk new info about the roll out, would imagine that would be a proper press release etc

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Because maybe he will talk about more than just the 701?

The institute of rail operators have similar events where people from various talks give talks about various projects and they last for several hours.

Like I said, highly doubt he will talk new info about the roll out, would imagine that would be a proper press release etc

Mind you, the title of the event is SWR Class 701 Update

 

[800001]

Mind you, the title of the event is SWR Class 701 Update

Fully aware of that………find it highly unusual that a company would provide any meaningful update via a talk to a group, rather than via press, or a release of information from there only press team etc.

However, this is SWR they may surprise me and actually provide a meaningful update which if they do, I will eat my words and admit I’m wrong.

 

[Snow1964]

Fully aware of that………find it highly unusual that a company would provide any meaningful update via a talk to a group, rather than via press, or a release of information from there only press team etc.

However, this is SWR they may surprise me and actually provide a meaningful update which if they do, I will eat my words and admit I’m wrong.

An engineering talk could include lots of technical spec and what they can do and what they are equipped for capable of. Even a comparison with the early 1980s 455s. Doesn't have to mention anything operational about getting them into service. My guess is a professional manager is briefed about what can and can't be divulged to an external audience.

 

[brad465]

How about this for a proposition (speaking as an outsider): this August shut the whole SWR suburban network and advise all the passengers to go on holiday or WFH*. During this time all the suburban network and its drivers, guards, etc. are dedicated to driver and other operation training of the 701s to expedite their rollout, so by September many more are in service with fully-competent staff. Even if not all the units are in service, nor all the old ones withdrawn, if they can get past a tipping point in rollout, the remainder of the process can speed up while maintaining a full passenger service.

*SWR gave the same advice to passengers in 2017 while half of Waterloo was shut for platform-lengthening works, so this is not unprecedented.

 

[Idiotic]

How about this for a proposition (speaking as an outsider): this August shut the whole SWR suburban network and advise all the passengers to go on holiday or WFH*. During this time all the suburban network and its drivers, guards, etc. are dedicated to driver and other operation training of the 701s to expedite their rollout, so by September many more are in service with fully-competent staff. Even if not all the units are in service, nor all the old ones withdrawn, if they can get past a tipping point in rollout, the remainder of the process can speed up while maintaining a full passenger service.

*SWR gave the same advice to passengers in 2017 while half of Waterloo was shut for platform-lengthening works, so this is not unprecedented.

There wouldn’t be enough trainers or resources to take that on. The bigger picture is you’re removing several driver and guards for several days who don’t wholly work in the suburban network either.

 

[Train wasp]

How about this for a proposition (speaking as an outsider): this August shut the whole SWR suburban network and advise all the passengers to go on holiday or WFH*. During this time all the suburban network and its drivers, guards, etc. are dedicated to driver and other operation training of the 701s to expedite their rollout, so by September many more are in service with fully-competent staff. Even if not all the units are in service, nor all the old ones withdrawn, if they can get past a tipping point in rollout, the remainder of the process can speed up while maintaining a full passenger service.

*SWR gave the same advice to passengers in 2017 while half of Waterloo was shut for platform-lengthening works, so this is not unprecedented.

How many companies could allow all their staff to work from home or for them to be on holiday. Don’t forget August is the most expensive time to go on holiday in this country.

 

[Peter Sarf]

How about this for a proposition (speaking as an outsider): this August shut the whole SWR suburban network and advise all the passengers to go on holiday or WFH*. During this time all the suburban network and its drivers, guards, etc. are dedicated to driver and other operation training of the 701s to expedite their rollout, so by September many more are in service with fully-competent staff. Even if not all the units are in service, nor all the old ones withdrawn, if they can get past a tipping point in rollout, the remainder of the process can speed up while maintaining a full passenger service.

*SWR gave the same advice to passengers in 2017 while half of Waterloo was shut for platform-lengthening works, so this is not unprecedented.

Would fail miserably.

Because for at least six months after the end of the training spree some new (or vaguelly unpredictable) fault/unsolvable-problem will rear its ugly head thus rendering all the 701s unusable and so leading to all the training expired......

But it would at least extend the life of the 455s and then the same training blitz could happen again.

 

[Ian Hardy]

Just passed through Syon Lane and at the Country End of platform 2, a new post with a strip light on it has appeared. I wonder whether this has anything to do with resolving DCO issues?

 

[7Sonofa7Son]

701s are well recieved by both passengers and staff, it seems the most frequent complaints come from an inner London depot for reasons anyone who has travelled on the metro services are well aware of.

I take it you know people at this unknown depot, or are yourself at it?

What about the genuine complaints from staff about the lack of a safe place of retreat should they need it? Or how about the critiques of the 701's PA handset quality when making announcements? Or the fact water leaks through the GOP panels?

 

[43066]

Or the fact water leaks through the GOP panels?

That doesn’t say much for the build quality.

 

[DMckduck]

What about the genuine complaints from staff about the lack of a safe place of retreat should they need it? Or how about the critiques of the 701's PA handset quality when making announcements? Or the fact water leaks through the GOP panels?

There is a safe space, it's the back cab? AFAIK a 9 car Azuma and 11 car pendolino don't have intermediate cabs do they?

The Handset problem is a fair critique, but then that's something the union should be fighting against as it's imperative safety critical information is passed on clearly. The RMT don't seem too bothered about it?

Wasn't aware of leaks in the GOPS, the safe space argument is usually used most by the large inner london depot who don't know how to leave the "safe space" of the middle cab.

 

[Bigfoot]

Neil Durry, SWR's engineering director, will be holding a conference on the 20th providing an update on the 701s: https://rcts.org.uk/event/surrey-branch-february-2025-meeting/

Not anymore, Neil now can't make it....

Unfortunately Neil is unable to attend our meeting. We hope to have an alternative speaker from South Western Railway, details will be posted here as soon as the speaker is finalised.

Such a coincidence that when the whole program is at a stand Neil pulls. Says a lot about the current status and not wanting to be completely embarrassed.

 

[7Sonofa7Son]

There is a safe space, it's the back cab? AFAIK a 9 car Azuma and 11 car pendolino don't have intermediate cabs do they?

The Handset problem is a fair critique, but then that's something the union should be fighting against as it's imperative safety critical information is passed on clearly. The RMT don't seem too bothered about it?

Wasn't aware of leaks in the GOPS, the safe space argument is usually used most by the large inner london depot who don't know how to leave the "safe space" of the middle cab.

The back cab is far from ideal though, there should be a place for the guard to secure themselves if they need to that. If they placed a Guard's cab (like they have on some of the Avanti trains), that would satisfy the need for a safe space as well as being able to satisfy the visibility needs of the guard as you wouldn't be able to operate the doors from there.

The handset issue has been raised by numerous RMT members. The more guards are trained on 701s, the more it will come up.

The water leaks are quite substantial. It's as if someone had poured a pint of water from above the GOP. It's not good.

I'm never going to defend middle cab dwellers, they know what they should and should not be doing, but having lazy guards isn't a good reason to dismiss the problems these trains have.

 

[SWT_USER]

If the leaks are as bad as claimed here then why have the trains been accepted by Rock Rail/ SWR?

 

[DelW]

Not anymore, Neil now can't make it....

Such a coincidence that when the whole program is at a stand Neil pulls. Says a lot about the current status and not wanting to be completely embarrassed.

Presumably the only update would have been "the introduction programme has been put back by three months (and counting) ... in the last three months". Not surprising that he didn't want to stand up on a stage and say that.

I expect other SWR suits are too busy planning the next public "launch event" ... will it be number four I think? I may have lost count over the years.

 

[Towers]

The water leaks are quite substantial. It's as if someone had poured a pint of water from above the GOP. It's not good.

Water pouring through internal control panels is a rather strange one; presumably this is rainwater rather than some sort of internal source?

 

[D365]

If the leaks are as bad as claimed here then why have the trains been accepted by Rock Rail/ SWR?

Were the additional GOPs fitted as a post-acceptance modification?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Water pouring through internal control panels is a rather strange one; presumably this is rainwater rather than some sort of internal source?

Was thinking the same thing. Why the guard panels specifically? They’re not part of the external bodywork. Maybe the bodywork was weakened by the installation.

 

[WrongRoad]

That doesn’t say much for the build quality.

No, but many on this forum quick to say that ASLEF are stopping the introduction of these trains for no good reason!!!!

 

[7Sonofa7Son]

If the leaks are as bad as claimed here then why have the trains been accepted by Rock Rail/ SWR?

From what I understand, the leaks were only noticed when they entered service.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The water leaks are quite substantial. It's as if someone had poured a pint of water from above the GOP. It's not good.

Surely there is some sort of tipping point where the DfT have to step in and do something... it's constant issue after issue

 

[7Sonofa7Son]

Water pouring through internal control panels is a rather strange one; presumably this is rainwater rather than some sort of internal source?

I think it has something to do with the vents collecting water and the leaking point just happens to be above the GOPs.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I think it has something to do with the vents collecting water

Sounds very familiar in relation to the Gatex 460 cars that formed the early part of the 458/5 plan. Some had been languishing for lengthy periods down Stew Lane and water will always get where it's least appreciated.

 

[D365]

Was thinking the same thing. Why the guard panels specifically? They’re not part of the external bodywork. Maybe the bodywork was weakened by the installation.

It depends on the quality of the GOP modification which, unless I’m mistaken, takes place after unit acceptance.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It depends on the quality of the GOP modification which, unless I’m mistaken, takes place after unit acceptance.

One possibility is that before the GOP panel was fitted the water would not have been seen running down behind a wall panel. So maybe the leak is long standing. After fitment there is new access to view a hidden area.