Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
There is already no RDW because that agreement wasn’t renewed back in December. This is causing daily cancellations but generally flies under the radar due to the sheer number of trains.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
You would think but control and stations grades have ongoing / recently settled / nearly had disputes too rumbling on for some time with seemingly little intervention.
Clearly the dates have been planned for maximum impact. The GEML would only have had one weekend of Elizabeth line trains in nearly 2 months if this goes ahead.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Although the strike means that drivers won’t book on for shifts beginning on the strike day. They should complete diagrams which book on the previous day, even if those continue beyond midnight.
They might need to alter diagrams to stable trains earlier, though.
I'd be surprised they intervene, MTR know they're out soon so is there really any urgency to sort a deal out? GTS most likely would be expected to pick up the flack if it's not resolved by the time concession handover occurs
I'd be surprised they intervene, MTR know they're out soon so is there really any urgency to sort a deal out? GTS most likely would be expected to pick up the flack if it's not resolved by the time concession handover occurs
GTS team have already started mobilising and are working with MTR and TFL to prepare for the handover…can’t imagine taking over £billions of pound contracts with disputes attached to it and GTS staying quiet about it.
GTS team have already started mobilising and are working with MTR and TFL to prepare for the handover…can’t imagine taking over £billions of pound contracts with disputes attached to it and GTS staying quiet about it.
The average train driver’s salary on the line is £72,465 for a 34-hour, four-day week - which would have risen by £3,261 to £75,726 under the proposed 4.5%.
The average train driver’s salary on the line is £72,465 for a 34-hour, four-day week - which would have risen by £3,261 to £75,726 under the proposed 4.5%.
Some of it is a bit historical. When ASLEF Elizabeth line drivers (and others under TfL concessions e.g. Overground / DLR) agreed one of the recent pay offers they were told it was an total "final and best" due to the economic circumstances of TfL during/post-Covid. So it was accepted in good faith. Then London Underground staff were offered similar, weren't too happy and the Mayor got involved and offered a load of extra cash for LU staff. This destroyed some faith in the TfL/company <> union comms regarding available finances for staff wage increases, as an example.
Some of it is a bit historical. When ASLEF Elizabeth line drivers (and others under TfL concessions e.g. Overground / DLR) agreed one of the recent pay offers they were told it was an total "final and best" due to the economic circumstances of TfL during/post-Covid. So it was accepted in good faith. Then London Underground staff were offered similar, weren't too happy and the Mayor got involved and offered a load of extra cash for LU staff. This destroyed some faith in the TfL/company <> union comms regarding available finances for staff wage increases, as an example.
Rail salaries will soon be out of control and there will be a crunch point. It’s a self perpetuating cycle of higher demands … no matter what inflation is.
I guess that the Mayor and TfL would want to say that they have no role in staff pay awards by MTR. But what stops MTR making a generous staff pay award, knowing that from May 2025 it won't be them paying the staff wage bill, and enjoying a few nice strike-free months?
I guess that the Mayor and TfL would want to say that they have no role in staff pay awards by MTR. But what stops MTR making a generous staff pay award, knowing that from May 2025 it won't be them paying the staff wage bill, and enjoying a few nice strike-free months?
Because GTS will have applied to run the concession based on an expected wage bill; and if MTR artificially inflate that, then they open themselves up to legal action from GTS to cover the shortfall
Yes if everything was brand new. The DLR for instance is semi-automated (still a passenger host for door control). But ultimately it's a through railway out to/from new areas of the track between Paddington-Abbey Wood onto Network Rail patches which is not close to being automated. So whilst ATO is in operation in the core section and that is brand new (and maybe you could fully automate, but you'd need the next level of GoA and also work out how opening/closing doors works seamlessly without incident thousands of times every day...) you'd still need a driver anyway out towards GEML or GWML anyway.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I guess that the Mayor and TfL would want to say that they have no role in staff pay awards by MTR. But what stops MTR making a generous staff pay award, knowing that from May 2025 it won't be them paying the staff wage bill, and enjoying a few nice strike-free months?
The tender for the concession would already have been made with certain assumptions like salary levels. Now TfL can intervene and ensure that all parties are in agreement - there is a legal term for this post-concession award - but for MTR to do so unilaterally would, as mentioned above, open them up to legal action by GTS.
This is why it has got very messy because MTR/TFL/GTS either can't or won't intervene and the buck is being passed around.
Just another step on the road to holding the whole country to ransom once the railways are all fully nationalised. £72k for a 4 day week, that's plenty already.
Just another step on the road to holding the whole country to ransom once the railways are all fully nationalised. £72k for a 4 day week, that's plenty already.
People get hung up on "4 day week" a lot, but that's compressed hours into a small number of days, hence longer shifts than your average 35-36hr worker. So swings and roundabouts.
Otherwise I suggest reading the rest of the thread which gives some explanation as to why this is happening. Everything is relative.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
www.standard.co.uk
